SurfnSoCal

Hi All-

My two buddies have a pair of '96 M3's. Both are outfitted with Dinan intake and exhaust, and some suspension (not the full Dinan Stage outfit). They have been giving me a bunch of bunk about "Oh, the mustang doesn't have IRS" and "oh, it takes a Ford V8 to get close to what BMW does with their V6's".

Anyway...given there cars....which do you think would perform better in the following settings-


-straight line drag

-hard cornering (i.e. quick right/left turns on the street)

My guess is that the M3 would pull ahead in the cornering...just because of weight and weight ratio, but what about in straight line? They claim their precious ultimate driving machine's have 300hp "or about 300hp"...and will leave my new baby in the dust.


The 04 M3's put out:
333/7900 hp
262/4900 lb-ft

And I believe my buddies 96's put out arround250hp stock (unable to verify this).

I have been trying to keep up with them in my 2000 V6 convertible...and well....it just doesn't happen. I am anticipating, speculating, and hoping...that I will in my new black beauty. If not...what mods do you think would even up the playing field about?

holderca1

A stock '96 BMW M3 has 240 hp and runs 0-60 in the high 5 second range. So stock for stock the '05 Mustang GT will beat a '96 M3 in a straight line. An '04 M3 has 333 hp and runs 0-60 in about 5 flat. So it would be a good race between an '05 GT and an '04 M3, it would basically come down to the driver. On curves and a road course is a different story, the M3 will eat the Mustang for lunch.

Standman38637

They don't know their cars very well. BMW's are I6's

SurfnSoCal

thats my bad, I forgot they are inline 6's.

Yeah, they claim with exhuast, intake, and some tuning...they have over 300hp. I am skeptical...

holderca1

Thats a lot of tuning to get 60+ hp. Improved intake and exhaust may get you an extra 20hp.

Retro GT

I've owned three M3's. A 1998, a 1999, and my current 1995. The 95's are still OBD I cars, so they have many modifications available. The 96 and up are somewhat restricted. I think comparing the two cars would be like comparing apples to oranges, but here's my opinion:

In a quarter mile, I'd probably give a slight edge to the Mustang if not even.

On a road course, the M3 would smoke the Mustang.

After the quarter mile, again the M3 would walk away from the Mustang (talking at higher speeds - top end).

Of course you're talking about a price difference of about $25k+ for both 05 models, so it's not a fair comparison.

IMO: I love both cars. BUT, they are two completely different cars. If you want a street pounder, a throw-back old style V8 RWD, a fun car to tear up the streets with, the Mustang GT is the car. Like driving the old Boss 302. If you're looking for a car to do some touring with, I would pick the M3.

Why don't you tell them that it takes BMW $25k+ more to get the performance of a much cheaper Mustang GT.

... Better yet... just tell them to go themselves !!

SurfnSoCal

HAHAHA.....sounds good.

thanks!

max2000jp

An E36 M3 wont pull ANYWHERE on a GT. My brother has a modded 97 E36 manual, which I have driven many times. The GT will smoke it. Handling wise, his car will smoke my Stang. I can outdrive him, so if he was to take his car out on the track he wouldn't pass me. The E36 was arguably the best handling car produced in the 90's. My brothers car has Koni's/GC coilovers and wider S03's all around. The car handles like it is on rails.

rrobello

Now here is what is wrong with tuner people; and I found it happens more often with the asian market lovers than with euro but, they all seem to not know much about cars. Now I am not knocking BMW at all, they are great cars especially the M series, but these "tuners" seem to think that if they simply strap on an intake they will improve 30 HP and with intake exhaust and headers and a few more slight mods that might gain a total of 50 HP that they suddenly have a 500+ HP car. Richard I am not saying your friends with the M3s fall (like my friends do; think that their 240 sx will beat the new GT) into this category but they seem to be exagerating a bit, unless they have done more than they are telling you to their cars, why not ask them to see it dynod, or better yet just wait until you get yours and whoop their hineyes. I think that this new stang should take them on the 1/4 mile but just the car by itself with same skilled driver, I honestly think the beamers edge us out there, but hey were not paying over 50 grand for our cars. It also really depends on the driver, because believe it or not; I myself still trying to figure out how this happened, but not to long ago I beat a new M3 on the street in my 98 V6, now before the flaming starts, I know that shouldnt happen, but it was some punk kid who apparently couldnt drive his car and yes he was trying to race me because he initiated it; I just got him off the line and when he finally figured out which pedal was the gas and caught up he then shifted and this is where he botched it because his car hesitated and lurched as if he missed the gear and I pulled away and then turned at the next light as he went speeding by. So it all depends, all in all though I say they are just jelous that the new GT is a better car all around.

Josh69

I recently sold my '97 Dinan M3 (Naturally Aspirated). It dyno'd at 220rwhp with 221lb ft of torque. This equates to approx 265-270 hp at the crank. 240hp was stock. Without a blower, your friends M3's won't touch the GT in a straight line. They are overly optimistic in their power potential, and are no where near 300hp. With due respect though, my car was a high 13 second car, pretty impressive for a 3.2L I6. Don't discount a good driver, but you should handle them with ease in a new GT. As for handling, that was the 2nd BMW I had built up and nothing I've ever owned could touch it for handling, and that includes a '91 Lotus Esprit SE which was also modified, a '92 Corvette, and a modified '85 Mustang SVO. I expect the new GT to handle well enough for daily driving duties I intend mine to be used for when I buy it this spring. With that said, most serious drivers, myself included, will put lighter wheels with wider and better rubber on, a good set of shocks and lowering springs or coilovers and possibly sway bars, which would certainly level the playing field to a greater extent.


To put it simply, with or without IRS, it'll be a lot cheaper to make your GT handle as well as an M3 than it would be to make an M3 as fast as your GT.


Josh

SurfnSoCal

thanks guys...that helps alot. I know people don't usually compare the new GT to the euro cars...but here in SoCal....all you see are Beemers, benzs, Audis, and rice rockets....all driven by 16-22 year old kids.

Now, I am 21...and this will be my third stang. But I have worked for and financed all three of these cars and their mods.

This is my first V8 stang, so it will be nice to finally get some respect from the euro/import crowd...and even if they don't admit it, I know I have the better car (and not just in 1/4 mile time of HP....but in style...)

dke

I agree with you guys that Ford is outperforming BMW in price/performance. And that in handling, BMW wins (at a price).

I'd be cautious about the "blowing away" in the 1/4 or straight line quips. I've driven a GT and have a 96 E36. Specs don't always tell the whole story. I didn't drag, so it is hard to tell, but it felt like the would be pretty darned close. (The E46 had more HP, but the torque didn't change as much, so having driven one it isn't THAT much more oomphy than an E36 -- until you start getting above about 80 MPH or so).

This isn't to defend some BMW thang. Both are good cars, and different cars. I know many Euro drivers that "respect" the American cars, especially in the 1/4 -- it's the prestige, resale, fit & finish, interiors, cornering, etc., that you're likely to get snubbed. But we aren't stupid, in value and a certain simple brute elegance there's something impressive about many American cars (both Stangs and GTO or Vettes). And I think the American companies (all of them) are really working on improving things more.

mav

SurfnSoCal

Do you disagree Tom?