bob

Thats the clack for the F6 Camaro as I understand it, the next car will be smaller in size and weight and engine output might even go down as well, but performance in acceleration will be equal to or greater and handling will be better.

fdjizm

SS is obviously faster that the 05-09's nobody is denying that.. but with 3 mods we can beat them which to me is a bit saddening for the camaro... it takes about 320hp to beat a 426hp camaro in a 05-09 s197... why? idk ask GM lol

70MACH1OWNER

The Camaro is like the Challenger.....CHUBBY!

exgto

No, you missed the point entirely. The only thing or benchmark that matters is if the owner is satisfied with the performance of their particular car.

To that end, the 3V modular has proven itself to be a very capable platform be it n/a or f/i. It will continue to be in spite of the new more powerful 5.0, the 6.2, or the 6.4 hemi.

bob

Thats a whole 'nother can of worms there

cdynaco

That's ridiculous. Do you know what 'benchmark' means?
Customizing your car to your hearts desire has nothing to do with a point of reference from mass produced machines from factories that are hamstrung by numerous government regs.

I agree with you about Ford's innovative 3V.

exgto

Another swing and a miss, and yes I know what benchmark means, and there is no need to attempt to be condecending.

Again, what I am saying is that the owner sets their own expectations, which may or may not have anything to do with how much horsepower the car came with vs. the competition.

Furthermore, once a car is modified, your "point of reference" as to mass production and factory hp is less significant.

Point of reference. I owned an 05 GTO, and sold it for a GT with 100 less HP with the intention of modifying my GT, hence I dismissed the horepower disparity or "benchmark". Now, tell me again why that is ridiculous?

Slims00ls1z28

320 as in fly or wheel HP. 320 in wheel horsepower is alot closer to the 426 flywheel horsepower (in the neighborhood of 350-380 depending on numbers you use) which is what I would expect "3 mods" to bring the stang to. Shouldn't need but one mod to bring flywheel hp to 320 on a 05-09 Stang. But as mentioned by bob, modded brings about a different ballgame. I mean heck my Z28 was in blower swap termi territory but that was "modded", stock to stock my Z couldn't handle a termi even "mod for mod" with bolt-ons it wasn't a comparo it wasn't until I got serious with it did It become "competition" but I know it took alot more to get it there mod # wise. Just as in 4th gen Camaros there are many modded 10 Camaro's out there already and the LS responds quite well to them too.

I'm anxious myself to see what the next round bring's for GM. SLP already increases the HP with just minor mods so a 25 hp bump is as easy as done. If they could use Pedders notes on suspension tweaks you'd see a completely different handler altogether. If they can make G8's pull over 1g on a skid pad I can imagine what they can do the the Camaro.

Stock for stock my opinon is the 10 Camaro> the 05-09 GT's the Track pack 10 Mustang brings it more even and the 11 Stang will probably be > 10 Camaro. Right now any progress on the Camaro's upgrades is speculation but if they give the nod to what SLP has already done then that should pull them back even again. But as I said I am only speculating based on previous GM endevours and parts bin, which to my credit I have been pretty close.

97svtgoin05gt

There literally was NO competition for the '05-'09 for almost its entire production run. The competition came out and Ford has answered their mark. I bet the '05-'09 would beat hell out of a '08 Camaro

shooterm1

actually all it boils down to is an appreciation and factual understanding of American automotive history, corporate integrity, labor relations and respect for the taxpayer/customer.

That, and some personal integrity.......

because, anyone who would drive (much less buy) a General Motors product (like this commie car -they call Commaro) would probably also marry off their only daughter to a Talibani Chieftain, pay the dowry and all expenses and then offer to host the whole clan in a cultural exchange program.

but I digress ~

Slims00ls1z28

All righty then.......I'll type that memo to all the American GM employees to move to Afghanistan or mother Russia then. And for the record you would do the above before myself and I own 2 GM cars and will buy the "commie" Camaro as well. Brainwashing, sounds a bit commie or Fascist to me. But I digress.

2k7gtcs

There's a black Camaro SS or something in my town with the vanity plates "See Ya".

I'm always in my work truck when I see it. I love to show him 479rwhp someday. Usually I don't care, but with a vanity plate like that, he's asking for it.

mustangGT90210

Drive 7 to work, problem solved

red pony

Couldn't have said it better, the entire post!

red pony

Slim, with all due respect to you and your love for GM products, I have 1 question; Do you in any way work for, or in any way affiliated with GM ? Because if you do, I understand your loyalty! But on a level of reliability, durability, and general good balanced quality, Ford builds a far more solid package than GM could ever hope to build! That is at least at this writing. If you haven't already done so, I invite you to read in 5.0 Mustang about the extensive testing done on the new 5.0 Coyote engine! The words cruelly brutal come to mind! Maybe if GM would do testing like this, instead of letting the public be the guinnie pig after the purchase, just maybe they might fix their mistakes and offer people a trust-worthy vehicle you can drive without holding your breath every time you take it out for a beat ride! I wouldn't feel confident in a Camaro not only for its drivetrain, but for the fact ya can't see out of the car for the poorly designed interior/exterior balance in glass angle,location and rear-view mirror location! If GM thinks going fast in a car ya can't see good out of is a fun car to drive, GUESS AGAIN ! In the looks dept. it is very nice, but in a couple years when it's sitting on blocks in some mullet-heads yard with grass growing up all around it, then is when its beauty has hit its stride! As for brainwashing, if you look that up in the dictionary, it says "see GM's ad campaigns for the last 50 years!" They're the" best" and if ya don't believe them THEY"LL TELL YA ANYWAY! If Howie Long knew how stupid he looks advertizing for Chevy...

Slims00ls1z28

Nope don't work for GM at all. And I don't have a "love" for GM such as you do with Ford. My GM stable is limited to LS powered cars and always will be and unless Ford makes a larger displacement, less complex, and cheap and easy to mod engine (not talking about simple bolt ons either) in the future my preference of an LS style engine will remain as a preference and not a blind loyalty. My preference is RWD V8 American vehicles and GM has had more in it's stable that I truly like or liked (Camaro, CTS-V, G8, GTO, Vette etc vs Mustang, Lightning, Sport Trac Adrenalin), and as I said I am a huge fan of the LS engine for obvious reasons (same as most engine swappers using the LS series). The 5.0 is nice and is a great engine, but it's power and efficiency is on par with an LS3 that is smaller, lighter, less complex, and going to be cheaper to get N/A power from. That's just my preference. Hopefully the wife will pick the 5.0 and I can have the best of both worlds but my new Camaro will come first (she's had the last 2 new vehicles, my turn).

As far as the "Ford builds a far more solid package than GM could ever hope to build" goes, unfortunately only brand loyalty could lead to a statement like that. Ford neither dominates GM in any quality manner (funny I just read this an hour ago http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...-about-toyota/) nor holds superiority across the marque in any area (well except finance issues which is a whole different ball of wax). Being one place up is not a huge chest thumping event in that list, and you obviously didn't read my reply to the broken transmission thread a little while back our you wouldn't be trying to mention anything about it. Gm has just as many vehicles in any "best" list as (such as this one just today http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...-the-new-year/) Ford does so it is really just a matter of what body style or features gets your jollies off to decide which to buy. GM performs plenty of greuling endurance tests with the same results. If you want to blame GM, for an obvious Tremec problem then that is your perogative, but it is an opinion at best. The rest of your post is banter equivalent to the same brand loyalty you try to assuade in the latter part of your post along with the many "metallurgical" reply's you've posted in the past with nothing more than a disdainment for GM and "love" for Ford.

My GTO has over 106K miles and gets beat extremely hard just about daily, My Z28 did even moreso with over 160K miles and well over 200 track passes (drove 50 miles to track ran at least 6 runs each sometimes 10 and drove 50 miles back home every time no worries ever) rode hard and put away wet. The new Camaros will be no different now that Tremec got their act in gear and I'll have fun abusing it too. Whichever stang my wife gets whether its the 05-09, or the 11 or later 5.0, will get beat on as well and I'll not worry about it as I don't my GTO, didn't my Z28, or will not my new Camaro (her escape not so much it's already starting with trans problems at 60K). Metallurgically speaking they've all been great and since all components are time proven(LS's since 97 and tremec's since they are behind just about every performance vehicle), I'll expect the same in the time to come.

You many not want to try to assuade such things to someone who has owned just as many FoMoCo products as I have GM in the last 10 years (actually 6 Fords to 5 GM's) or lives in a redneck area where more "mullet heads" have Mustangs sitting on blocks because well there's more out there to sit on blocks (one right next door to me matter of fact, who lives in a converted camper trailer want pics?).

red pony

OOPS ! I pushed the wrong button! Loyal, yes I am towards a company that has given me excelent service and trouble free miles for the last 30 years! And all the vehicles were old when I got them! A few with over 100,000 miles on them! To me, the true test of a car's worth is not only its performance but also its ability to withstand many years of use (and abuse) and still retain the same engine ,trans , and rear end! I'm sure there's plenty of examples of GM vehicles out there that may have done that, but after owning a few, I was not impressed. The same year or older Ford gave me less headaches and ran stronger. Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so . I worked for GM dealerships for 36 years 4 years for Buick (back then, they were great cars) and 32 years with Chevy. While walking through the service dept. , I CONSTANTLY saw engines torn down for some pretty ridiculous reasons. Camshafts, head gaskets, and poorly chosen materials for aluminum heads come to mind. I saw more 350 Chevys apart for crank and other reciprocating assembly parts than I care to remember! Yet, when I cross the street to a Ford service Dept., There is no engines scattered out on benches , no mechanics getting testy and throwing tools and getting upset! And when I go back repeatedly and see the scene hasn't changed, I conclude my choice is Ford. And by the way, I checked a number of dealerships both GM and Ford and the story remains the same! Maybe you get good service out of GM products, and that's great! I hope you continue to enjoy success with them! I only speak for what works for me. And I speak for the things I saw and experienced. Now GM is in trouble. Why did that have to happen?

Slims00ls1z28

Everyone's story is different. With my first car being a 73 Nova hatchback (six banger)and then graduating to a 69 Nova with a 200k mi + 307 that got yanked in good running condition for my then new "built" 350 (stock 350 with mild cam and intake). Being 18 with an "itch" It got abused more than any engine should. Low oil, 5 minute burnouts, foot to the floor most of the time, I couldn't blow it. Most damage it ever concieved was a stretched timing chain and needed rings. Around where I live, it's mostly Mustangs when it comes to cars but chevy trucks come a dime a dozen. I have yet to see a grenaded 350 even though most everyone I know has at least one somewhere. And like I said this is redneckville (not in a derogatory way I'm fond of them) so they are not going to be your change the oil every 3000 miles type either. 350 sbc's have a great track record. I know the problems with few different year SBC's and none are fatal. My only horror stories involved the Fords I've owned, 2000 Taurus 40K miles-complete brake failure, several sensor and CV axle problems (it was a rental before I bought it so I blamed that), 86 Cougar 160k miles, 5.0-engine came apart internally (never figured out why sold it for 100$ after it went), 2003 sport-trac 12k miles went back for trans trouble and later had a wierd computer and intake manifold failure (melted a hole in it somehow) all fixed under warranty, 05 F-150 new-went back to the dealer 3 times for rear-end problems (third time they replaced the whole thing) seatbelt and headlight problems (all warranty repaired). So far the wife's 07 Escape ,bought new, hasn't been to the dealer yet but the torque converter is now causing vibration on lockup. It's out of warranty now so oh well if it goes it goes brother in law is now manager at Coleman taylor so I'm good. We're not even going to get into the wifes 2 Fox mustangs 90-91 4 bangers before we got married, or both my aunts explorers, my mom's explorer, guy down the road's 5.0 etc. Now the old 96 S-10 4-banger I had before the bronco ended up with nothing but problems, but **** happens. I've had no problems out of 350's or 4.3's (350's minus 2 cylinders) and I've owned plenty (me and my brother had 4.3's that outlasted the vehicles they were installed in). I've had plenty of Fords with no problems either, old F150 with 4.9 six 150+k, 89 Bronco (5.8)150+k, 91 F150 ext cab (5.8) well over 250K miles on that one, sister in law's 99 F150 that has had maybe 5 oil changes in 200k miles and pulled hundreds of cars to rebuild trans, still runs (though need rebuilding now) . I don't blame any inadaquacies of any vehicle I've had problems with to the manufacturer (except the 91 Eagle Talon turbo and 94 Toyota Tercel) as I said **** happens. Show me 100 broke 350's an I can show you 100 broke 302's or 4.6's. Most car based forums I've been on have a technical section for a reason, with someone posting a problem (I've seen plenty here and tried to help when possible too). Show me a 400k Ford with original drivetrain and I can show you a 400K GM with the same drivetrain. My uncle has run a shop for 20 years, I've been fixing cars for the last 15 years. I've seen it all. Not once have I seen a major reoccuring problem with any of them (well except AOD an 4L60E transmissions). They've been tic for tac for years, if not always.

red pony

I guess all the players need to be around to make each other do better. Maybe if the Camaro didn't come out, we wouldn't have a 400 horse Mustang in 2011 !

shooterm1

and if Imperial Japan hadn't been such a malevolent force with suicidal tendencies we wouldn't have used the Atom Bomb