RedCandy5.0

We know that the '10 Mustang can hang and even some say is better than the new Camaro SS.
How do you guys think the 05-09 GT's compare to the SS?

bob

No contest, GM benched the 05-09 S-197s

Flagstang

I did well vs one.

Glenn

add a intake and a tune to the 05 to 09 and they have more hp than the 10's do. The camaro would probably break something before it made it through the 1/4

bob

Anything can happen at the track or on the street when the driver is an unkonwn quanity, but all things being equal a stock SS will eat a stock 05-09 GT alive in every measurable performance aspect.

red pony

Yeah, but it won't do it for very long! Something expensive is bound to break! And with today's high costs for new cars, and advances in metallurgy, there is NO excuse for ANY drivetrain part failing under whatever loads either designed or implied !

bob

We'll see, but it isn't isolated to GM either, Nissan and its GT-R had teething problems as well.

GMs transmission woes could have been a supplier side issue rather than a design fault (does anybody have a link to the actual reason the tremecs were breaking?) and thats not to say they should be let off the hook, but I don't see when the kinks are worked out it will be any less reliable.

One thing to keep in mind with the S-197 was Ford's absolute desire to have as trouble free an intro as they possibly could. I would think GM would have wanted the same, but there may have been different priorities at time? Anybody remeber the interior panel debacle???

red pony

It was GM who was at fault. They ordered a tranny with too low of a torque rating for the engine it was coupled to! But hey, better the tranny than the engine, right? The wrong tranny made the engine "appear" a bit more "durable" !

chappy48

Actually the tranny's in the Camaro's are very good. There are numerous 500+rwhp Camaro's running around with no problems.

cdynaco

Note Slims posts:

https://themustangsource.com/showthr...=camaro&page=2

bob

Thanks Charlie.

825LTRGT

The Camaro SS is a nice car. Quick too. But something is wrong when a solution is to put stick on weights on the rotors.

edumspeed

Stock vs stock, SS. No contest.

rhumb

Absolutely the SS is better than the '05-09. Hence, the '10 Stang refresh and now, the '11 5.0 with proper six speed and Brembos (available). So now it'll be a much tougher question and with the '11, the balance may well be in the Mustang's favor. Do you think any of that would have happened with the Stang -- certainly the breadth and depth of the improvements not to mention how quickly they're being implemented -- without the Camaro breathing down its neck?

Of course, Chevy's not going to take all this lying down, so who knows what their rebuttal will be (more power yet, tightened up chassis tuning, something else?).

UnrealFord

Sorry wish it was true, But theres noway in my opinon that could be possible..

bob

I don't think GM wanted to delay the car any longer, hence the sticky weight fix for the squeal issue. Its a less than ideal fix, but how many times had GM been blasted for having a long in the tooth show and a bunch of mules.

Then again it could have been other things as well ranging from money woes to people within GM that just plain want to see the car fail so they can funally drive a stake through its heart and been done with it forever (and they are in there, hopefully the management shake up at GM is getting rid of these killjoys)

bob

I think the next round from GM is going to be in the chassis department, it will produce the most visible gains for least amount of cash.

I'm on the fence about power for the standard car, The DI LSx V8's are supposedly good for another 50-75 more hp, but I remeber reading about insurance companies getting nervous about approaching that number (let alone public perception of a 475-500hp car - even if GM were to eek out another 4-5 mpg and it farted pure oxygen, 500hp screams gas guzzler).

rhumb

Agreed, the Camaro SS's weaker points are not its engine and power, it's got plenty already, but rather, a slightly soft chassis that could be a bit more communicative. As mentioned, a good round of chassis tuning could readily and cheaply fix that. Ford's taking the same approach with the Stang with an almost annual series of ever more effective chassis tuning upgrades starting from the Bullitt to the '10 refresh and now even more for '11.

I might expect Chevy then to probably do some requisite minor power tweaks -- an easy 10-20hp just to counter the 5.0 -- but to concentrate on chassis tuning and refinement and also minor overall refinements (CQ, materials, that sort of thing.). That and the usual color and trim tweaks. A Z/28 might also appear, but that will be more the Camaro halo model going against the GT500 rather than a bread and butter model.

Unfortunately for Chevy (and Dodge with the Challenger), their biggest weakness is their bigness. They are textbook examples of how even ostensibly superior chassis designs and mega-motors can have their effectiveness sapped by a couple of hundred pounds of lard. That problem won't be rectified until the next significant redesign of those two Clydesdalesque pony cars in, well, whenever. I think in the future you're going to see acceleration addressed from the other side of the power to weight ratio for a number of reason.

exgto

Some will tout the "stock vs. stock" superiority of the SS.

To which I say, is the ultimate in benchracing moronic philosophy.

Both cars offer a solid V8, which can be modified to go as fast as the owner could want, unless your name is John Force.

I think the choice between the two is based on personal preference.

I much prefer the Mustang.

cdynaco

Yeah but... you have to have a benchmark somehow... I mean I feel the same way with superchargers... anybody can do that - so what? But what is the engine's N/A abilities?

Heck if I had all sorts of dough, I'd love to have all 3 - they're all pretty great in their own way. But since I can only pull one off, Bullitt it is...