NEVER Do Business with Red Zone Motorsports, they are complete Crooks
8/26/10, 08:29 PM
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NEVER Do Business with Red Zone Motorsports, they are complete Crooks
Just need to come on here and let you guys know to never do any business with Red Zone Motorsports in Centerville, Ohio. Here is their website: http://www.redzonemotorsportsllc.com/ They "supposedly" are specialists in General & Concourse Restorations but were never able to find out what was wrong with my car and racked up an enormous bill in the process. I think they just saw me as a younger guy that they could take serious advantage of.
So get this, I have a 1969 Mach 1 Mustang that was having wiring issues, I bought a new headlight wiring harness for the car and the car wouldn't start or even turn over at all. If you kept the key to the ON position the wires that go to the ignition switch would get so hot that you couldn't touch them. I dabbled with the car for about two weeks and every time I thought I corrected the problem it seemed that I took two steps back.
Anyway I finally had to throw in the towel and take it to a restoration shop a few miles from me. I knew the owner of Morris Auto Restoration before he sold the shop over to this other guy, who changed the name to Red Zone Motorsports, so I thought they would keep the same professional standards. Boy was I wrong.
I know this is really long story but I hope some of you find that it was worth reading
*Monday August 16, 2010*
-I took the Mustang to Red Zone around 1-1:30pm. The main shop guy, Keith Vanhoose was there to meet me, along with a younger fella named Ben. I told Keith that the car was bleeding me dry and that I didn't mean to give some sort of sob story but I didn't have much money left to put into the car. My dad was with me and told both Keith and Ben not to start anything without calling us first and letting us know what's going on. My dad told that to them 2 times, once when we unloaded the car and again right before we left. Both this Keith guy and Ben agreed to that, so I left feeling pretty confident that they could fix the problem in just a couple hours. My dad kind of came away not having the best feeling in the world and just kind of ignored it.
*Thursday August 19, 2010*
-Keith calls the house phone early afternoon and leaves a message, but I'm at work. I just don't know why he didn't call my cell phone???
*Friday August 20, 2010*
-I called Keith back around 10:00am. He told me that the problem why my wires were heating up was because of a bad resistor wire. Keith told me that he was just going to replace the underdash wiring harness originally cause that's where the problem was, but looked it up and saw that it was $799.99. I told him that I would love to replace the underdash harness but I didn't have that kind money. Keith agreed that it was a lot of money and told me not to worry about it cause "they" would take care of it for me. Keith then went on to say that he went ahead and ordered the new resistor wire and said it was going to be there on Monday. I then asked him what price and how many hours we were at so far, he told me that he didn't have the figures in front of him but that he would call me back in a little while and let me know. I never once got a call back from him.
*Monday August 23, 2010*
-Keith called me back late morning/early afternoon and again left a message on our house phone. I was at work so I didn't get the message till later in the day. Again I don't know why he never called my cell phone??? I called Red Zone back around 4:00pm, the owner David Shriner picked up and told me Keith had left for the day. So the owner calls Keith up on his cell phone and gives him my number, all this was going on while I was still on the phone to the owner. Dave tells me that Keith will call me in a few minutes and goes on to tell me that Keith hasn't fixed the problem yet. The car is running but the wires are still heating up real bad but he's almost got the problem sorted out. At 4:15 Keith calls me and tells me what was going on and that he thinks the problem might be the points not opening up enough and it's causing a back feed through the wires. He said he would adjust the points tomorrow morning and that "should" fix the problem. I then again asked him what price we were at so far and how many hours he's put in so far? Keith again replied that he didn't have the figures in front of him but that he would call me first thing tomorrow morning and let me know.
*Tuesday August 24, 2010*
-While I was out working Keith finally called my cell phone around 3:00pm and tells me that readjusting the point didn't do anything and that the wires were still heating up and getting hot. He goes on to say that he's got a few calls out to people cause he's never experienced anything like this before. I ask him how many hours we were at so far, I was expecting him to say something like 6-8 hours. Keith then goes on to say that the time he's put in on the car so far is 40 hours and do I want him to continue? I was in absolute shock and told him to stop completely and not to do another thing to the car! I asked how much that was going to be? He asked if I was sitting down and that the total would be $2,000. I went on to say that I didn't have that kind of money to pay for it at all. After that I hung up the phone with him and told my dad what was going on, needless to say he was furious cause we didn't tell him at all to put that much time in on it. We told him to call us first if it was getting expensive but funny enough I never got any of those calls.
*Wednesday August 25, 2010*
-After pretty much staying up all night thinking about what went on I called Red Zone back at 9:01am and talked to Keith and said that I wanted to talk with David the owner and if I could have his cell phone number? Keith of course told me that he wasn't allowed to give that information out. I went on to tell Keith in a nice calm, collect voice that I was a little more than upset about the price and what went on. Again he was suppose to give me a call like my dad and I told him when we dropped the car off, on any kind of updates or estimates before continuing to evaluate the problem. I went on to say to him that if the problem was in the underdash wiring harness I could have just bought two and a half of them for that price, but I didn't get the dash harness cause it was out of my price range. I went on to say that if you would have called me at 5 hours I would have told you then and there to stop working on the car, but you never called me at all to let me know where we were at. Keith just kind of mumbled in the phone and didn't say a word the whole time I was talking to him. I just went on to say that I trusted him to let me know what was going on but that I felt completely betrayed. After I was done Keith just said that I'll have Dave call you when he gets in. At 3:26pm Dave, the owner, called me back finally. I just went on and told him the things I had told Keith but Dave started to become defensive and kept throwing smug answers at me. After a few minutes of talking to David my dad took the phone from me and in a calm, collect voice as well, told all the instructions that we told Keith when we dropped the car off. That was to call us and let us know what was going on, which they never did. My dad went on to say that we weren't going to pay the $2,000, so Dave asked what a fair price would be? Then my dad offered him $500, which of course Dave wouldn't even think of taking. After my dad talked with him for about ten minutes Dave said he would get a figure together and let us know either tonight or tomorrow.
*Thursday August 26, 2010*
-Dave called us back today at 10:30am and talked with my dad. He said that if we paid cash he would drop the price to $1,500. So my dad said we'd get back to him. When we were visiting a friend he said that since we never signed anything at the shop they can't legally hold my car. So at 3:30 today we called up the Centerville Police, who sent an officer out to meet us to see if we could get my car back. I told the officer my side of the story, which is everything that I've written in here, then we went over to Red Zone so he could get their side of the story. After the officer talked with them for about 5-10mins he came back over to us and said that there wasn't really anything he could do. The officer even brought up the price for the $800 underdash harness to Dave and Keith and said that if I wasn't able to buy that what makes them think that I can pay for a $2,000 bill? Then the officer went on to say that Keith outright denied ever saying anything to me about an underdash wiring harness. The last thing the officer told me that my only 2 options were to just pay the price on the car and turn around and sue Red Zone or not pay for the car and go ahead and try to sue them.
So needless to say I am a little irritated about this whole situation. I know that we hear about these kinds of things all the time but I just wanted to throw out and share my side of the story, and I can tell you with absolute honesty that everything I've written in here is the truth.
So bottom line is to never do any business with Red Zone Motorsports. The fight is far from over, I'm an honest person and just want others to be the same way. Of course we live in these times now where everyone is just out to make a quick buck and they don't care who they hurt in the process.
James
So get this, I have a 1969 Mach 1 Mustang that was having wiring issues, I bought a new headlight wiring harness for the car and the car wouldn't start or even turn over at all. If you kept the key to the ON position the wires that go to the ignition switch would get so hot that you couldn't touch them. I dabbled with the car for about two weeks and every time I thought I corrected the problem it seemed that I took two steps back.
Anyway I finally had to throw in the towel and take it to a restoration shop a few miles from me. I knew the owner of Morris Auto Restoration before he sold the shop over to this other guy, who changed the name to Red Zone Motorsports, so I thought they would keep the same professional standards. Boy was I wrong.
I know this is really long story but I hope some of you find that it was worth reading
*Monday August 16, 2010*
-I took the Mustang to Red Zone around 1-1:30pm. The main shop guy, Keith Vanhoose was there to meet me, along with a younger fella named Ben. I told Keith that the car was bleeding me dry and that I didn't mean to give some sort of sob story but I didn't have much money left to put into the car. My dad was with me and told both Keith and Ben not to start anything without calling us first and letting us know what's going on. My dad told that to them 2 times, once when we unloaded the car and again right before we left. Both this Keith guy and Ben agreed to that, so I left feeling pretty confident that they could fix the problem in just a couple hours. My dad kind of came away not having the best feeling in the world and just kind of ignored it.
*Thursday August 19, 2010*
-Keith calls the house phone early afternoon and leaves a message, but I'm at work. I just don't know why he didn't call my cell phone???
*Friday August 20, 2010*
-I called Keith back around 10:00am. He told me that the problem why my wires were heating up was because of a bad resistor wire. Keith told me that he was just going to replace the underdash wiring harness originally cause that's where the problem was, but looked it up and saw that it was $799.99. I told him that I would love to replace the underdash harness but I didn't have that kind money. Keith agreed that it was a lot of money and told me not to worry about it cause "they" would take care of it for me. Keith then went on to say that he went ahead and ordered the new resistor wire and said it was going to be there on Monday. I then asked him what price and how many hours we were at so far, he told me that he didn't have the figures in front of him but that he would call me back in a little while and let me know. I never once got a call back from him.
*Monday August 23, 2010*
-Keith called me back late morning/early afternoon and again left a message on our house phone. I was at work so I didn't get the message till later in the day. Again I don't know why he never called my cell phone??? I called Red Zone back around 4:00pm, the owner David Shriner picked up and told me Keith had left for the day. So the owner calls Keith up on his cell phone and gives him my number, all this was going on while I was still on the phone to the owner. Dave tells me that Keith will call me in a few minutes and goes on to tell me that Keith hasn't fixed the problem yet. The car is running but the wires are still heating up real bad but he's almost got the problem sorted out. At 4:15 Keith calls me and tells me what was going on and that he thinks the problem might be the points not opening up enough and it's causing a back feed through the wires. He said he would adjust the points tomorrow morning and that "should" fix the problem. I then again asked him what price we were at so far and how many hours he's put in so far? Keith again replied that he didn't have the figures in front of him but that he would call me first thing tomorrow morning and let me know.
*Tuesday August 24, 2010*
-While I was out working Keith finally called my cell phone around 3:00pm and tells me that readjusting the point didn't do anything and that the wires were still heating up and getting hot. He goes on to say that he's got a few calls out to people cause he's never experienced anything like this before. I ask him how many hours we were at so far, I was expecting him to say something like 6-8 hours. Keith then goes on to say that the time he's put in on the car so far is 40 hours and do I want him to continue? I was in absolute shock and told him to stop completely and not to do another thing to the car! I asked how much that was going to be? He asked if I was sitting down and that the total would be $2,000. I went on to say that I didn't have that kind of money to pay for it at all. After that I hung up the phone with him and told my dad what was going on, needless to say he was furious cause we didn't tell him at all to put that much time in on it. We told him to call us first if it was getting expensive but funny enough I never got any of those calls.
*Wednesday August 25, 2010*
-After pretty much staying up all night thinking about what went on I called Red Zone back at 9:01am and talked to Keith and said that I wanted to talk with David the owner and if I could have his cell phone number? Keith of course told me that he wasn't allowed to give that information out. I went on to tell Keith in a nice calm, collect voice that I was a little more than upset about the price and what went on. Again he was suppose to give me a call like my dad and I told him when we dropped the car off, on any kind of updates or estimates before continuing to evaluate the problem. I went on to say to him that if the problem was in the underdash wiring harness I could have just bought two and a half of them for that price, but I didn't get the dash harness cause it was out of my price range. I went on to say that if you would have called me at 5 hours I would have told you then and there to stop working on the car, but you never called me at all to let me know where we were at. Keith just kind of mumbled in the phone and didn't say a word the whole time I was talking to him. I just went on to say that I trusted him to let me know what was going on but that I felt completely betrayed. After I was done Keith just said that I'll have Dave call you when he gets in. At 3:26pm Dave, the owner, called me back finally. I just went on and told him the things I had told Keith but Dave started to become defensive and kept throwing smug answers at me. After a few minutes of talking to David my dad took the phone from me and in a calm, collect voice as well, told all the instructions that we told Keith when we dropped the car off. That was to call us and let us know what was going on, which they never did. My dad went on to say that we weren't going to pay the $2,000, so Dave asked what a fair price would be? Then my dad offered him $500, which of course Dave wouldn't even think of taking. After my dad talked with him for about ten minutes Dave said he would get a figure together and let us know either tonight or tomorrow.
*Thursday August 26, 2010*
-Dave called us back today at 10:30am and talked with my dad. He said that if we paid cash he would drop the price to $1,500. So my dad said we'd get back to him. When we were visiting a friend he said that since we never signed anything at the shop they can't legally hold my car. So at 3:30 today we called up the Centerville Police, who sent an officer out to meet us to see if we could get my car back. I told the officer my side of the story, which is everything that I've written in here, then we went over to Red Zone so he could get their side of the story. After the officer talked with them for about 5-10mins he came back over to us and said that there wasn't really anything he could do. The officer even brought up the price for the $800 underdash harness to Dave and Keith and said that if I wasn't able to buy that what makes them think that I can pay for a $2,000 bill? Then the officer went on to say that Keith outright denied ever saying anything to me about an underdash wiring harness. The last thing the officer told me that my only 2 options were to just pay the price on the car and turn around and sue Red Zone or not pay for the car and go ahead and try to sue them.
So needless to say I am a little irritated about this whole situation. I know that we hear about these kinds of things all the time but I just wanted to throw out and share my side of the story, and I can tell you with absolute honesty that everything I've written in here is the truth.
So bottom line is to never do any business with Red Zone Motorsports. The fight is far from over, I'm an honest person and just want others to be the same way. Of course we live in these times now where everyone is just out to make a quick buck and they don't care who they hurt in the process.
James
8/26/10, 11:16 PM
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I know that if I'm paying 2 grand for repairs that it better be fixed! They didn't even approach that point! So what is it you are paying for? Their time?! What's YOUR time worth? If they said that their time is worth , say, 60 bucks an hour, isn't your time and aggravation worth twice that?! And if they proceeded without your WRITTEN concent, they have no legal right to charge you for anything! Go in, get your keys to that car and take it ! If they call the police on you, ask them to produce evidence that they did the work that they claimed they did and furnish proof that the repair was authorized! If they are so stupid as to expect anyone to pay for a repair that wasn't even performed, them charging 2 bucks an hour would be too much! It was good that your dad was there to hear the agreed arrangement on how to approach the job! They are in violation, not you! If that was done right, you and the garage would hold copies of a shop repair order that held an agreed price and a ceiling amount of monies that was allowed in time alloted in trouble shooting the problem! Contact your local Better Business Bureau and file a complaint and let the garage know you fully intend to report them if they don't hand over the keys right away!
8/27/10, 06:17 AM
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I would love to go pick my car up, just grab the keys, load it on the trailer and take it home so things don't start "magically" disappearing off the car. But yesterday when we took the police officer over with us to try and get the car back there was nothing he could do. He even called the district attorney to see what legal action I had on getting the car. Of course the DA said that I had no right to pick up the car, since I dropped it off at the shop that is basically telling them they can do whatever they wanted to do. Even though, again I didn't SIGN anything to tell them to go ahead with any kind of work.
I just love how the bad guys get all the rights and the good guys are the ones that have to go trough the hoops for these things.
Thanks for the support everyone, like I said this is far from over and I'm now trying to contact several news channels to have this place exposed for what they really are.
James
I just love how the bad guys get all the rights and the good guys are the ones that have to go trough the hoops for these things.
Thanks for the support everyone, like I said this is far from over and I'm now trying to contact several news channels to have this place exposed for what they really are.
James
8/28/10, 10:19 PM
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So just to update you guys on what has happened yesterday, it was mostly one of those good/bad situations. The good is that I got my car back, the bad is that I had to pay these crooks the $1,500. I DID NOT want to leave my car at their shop over the weekend. Plus legally I had no options, except to pay for the car THEN go after them.
I'm sorry these things are so long, I'm just trying to fill you guys in on what's happening so far so that things like this don't ever happen to any of you.
*Friday August 27, 2010*
-At 8:33am I called up the police officer that went over to Red Zone with my dad and I yesterday. (When we were there yesterday the officer wanted us to leave so he could talk with Dave and Keith for a few more minutes) The officer told me over the phone that he talked with Dave and Keith and Dave was a little more compliant on working things out, cause I had shaken him up a little, and said that he might be willing to lower the price. He told me that it was basically my decision on what I wanted to do at this point, either contact Dave or don't.
So at 8:44am I contacted Dave and as soon as he answered all he said was yeah, I immediately thought that he thinks he has the upper hand with me. I asked if the $1,500 was still set in stone. In his arrogant tone he told me that he was already giving me a good deal on the price I got and that it was more than fair. He also went on to say that I played a dirty trick yesterday by showing up with the police, thinking that I could steal my car back. I just went on to tell him that I have rights and since I never signed anything I wanted my car back. (I kind of figured I wouldn't have been able to get the car back, I took the police officer with me just in case something went on but now there is record of what is going on) After talking with Dave for around 10mins we weren't getting anywhere, he told me that quite honestly my car was taking up space and that they would have to start charging me a storage fee, which was $30 a day. (Whereas just yesterday he told me that it wouldn't be a problem keeping the car there at the shop and that he wouldn't be charging me. I guess he changed his mind) I just told him that my dad and I would discuss it and get back to him.
Thankfully I was able to borrow all the money I needed from my awesome neighbors. So around 10am this morning my dad and I went to cash the check my neighbor gave me and headed over to Red Zone to pick up the car. We got over there at 10:25am, as soon as I got there Keith was in the back room, I was outside still and yelled in at him through the garage door that was open. I told him that I was here to pick up my car NOW. I could see in his face that he was in complete shock that we were even there. Keith told my dad and I that he needed to call Dave and let him know what was going on. While we were waiting, that Ben kid, who was there the first day when we dropped the car off, thought he was going to be the intimidating factor and stood over in front of us with the gruff look on his face. When Keith came back to us he said that as long as we had the $1,500 we could come in a pick the car up (Keith wouldn't let my dad and I in the building at all till he got the OK from Dave) When we entered the building I said that I wanted an itemized bill and a receipt. Keith just asked if they could mail it to me or fax it to me. I said no, I want those things right now in my hand or I'm not going to pay you guy. He told me it would be a few minutes. I immediately went over to inspect the car and they never put my ignition switch back in, it was just hanging there, they never bothered to clean up their mess they made on the inside of my car. They had all sorts of wire clippings in my seat and all over the floor. Plus there were a few more things that they never bothered to put back together like my air cleaner seal and my coil bracket. I ran back out to the truck to get my camera to get some pictures. While I was going to get the camera my dad said that Keith needed to tell Dave that we were going to see him in court for all that has gone on.
My dad and I waited for almost half an hour for them to get the itemized bill and receipt together for us. Now I would have thought that stuff would have been available immediately, but it wasn't. All the time my dad and I were waiting for the bill, Ben still had the whole intimidation thing going, he was sitting over on the side of a truck, which was parked right next to my car, and kept staring at us. After I paid them I wanted to start the car up so I could drive it on the trailer, Keith told me that the shape it was in right now that it wasn't able to be started up and driven. I thought that after all those 40 hours it was just about fixed. So he pushed me out of the shop and told me he would keep it under 100mph. (I just kept thinking that now isn't the time to be joking with me) He pushed me up on the trailer and before I got out of the car, Keith ran back inside the building. My dad and I didn't get any sort of thank you for paying for the car and being cooperative. When my dad and I strapped the car down I wanted to see it the car would start, we hooked everything up and cranked it over and it just kept cranking over really slowly and the starter solenoid started smoking. I was pretty furious by that point cause the car didn't start and I have no idea if it ever started or not, I'm just going to what they said. After than my dad and I left and went home to drop the car off.
Last night I was referred to a lawyer by and friend and gave word for him to call me back. At 6:56pm this lawyer called me back and I told him everything that was going on. I was told that since I never signed anything and there was nothing written up on what to do to the car, I have a very solid case for myself. I was also told that Red Zone had violated the Consumer Sales Act and the odds were strongly in my favor of winning.
So that is pretty much where I stand right now, I'm going to talk to another lawyer tomorrow that is closer to me and handles these kinds of cases and see what can be done.
See Red Zone thought that I was just going to pay them, roll over and take the beating, but like I said before the fight is far from over. It is not fair for places like this to take advantage of any of us. To me it just seems that places like this get away with these kinds of thing all the time, but I'm about to give them a serious reality check.
James
I'm sorry these things are so long, I'm just trying to fill you guys in on what's happening so far so that things like this don't ever happen to any of you.
*Friday August 27, 2010*
-At 8:33am I called up the police officer that went over to Red Zone with my dad and I yesterday. (When we were there yesterday the officer wanted us to leave so he could talk with Dave and Keith for a few more minutes) The officer told me over the phone that he talked with Dave and Keith and Dave was a little more compliant on working things out, cause I had shaken him up a little, and said that he might be willing to lower the price. He told me that it was basically my decision on what I wanted to do at this point, either contact Dave or don't.
So at 8:44am I contacted Dave and as soon as he answered all he said was yeah, I immediately thought that he thinks he has the upper hand with me. I asked if the $1,500 was still set in stone. In his arrogant tone he told me that he was already giving me a good deal on the price I got and that it was more than fair. He also went on to say that I played a dirty trick yesterday by showing up with the police, thinking that I could steal my car back. I just went on to tell him that I have rights and since I never signed anything I wanted my car back. (I kind of figured I wouldn't have been able to get the car back, I took the police officer with me just in case something went on but now there is record of what is going on) After talking with Dave for around 10mins we weren't getting anywhere, he told me that quite honestly my car was taking up space and that they would have to start charging me a storage fee, which was $30 a day. (Whereas just yesterday he told me that it wouldn't be a problem keeping the car there at the shop and that he wouldn't be charging me. I guess he changed his mind) I just told him that my dad and I would discuss it and get back to him.
Thankfully I was able to borrow all the money I needed from my awesome neighbors. So around 10am this morning my dad and I went to cash the check my neighbor gave me and headed over to Red Zone to pick up the car. We got over there at 10:25am, as soon as I got there Keith was in the back room, I was outside still and yelled in at him through the garage door that was open. I told him that I was here to pick up my car NOW. I could see in his face that he was in complete shock that we were even there. Keith told my dad and I that he needed to call Dave and let him know what was going on. While we were waiting, that Ben kid, who was there the first day when we dropped the car off, thought he was going to be the intimidating factor and stood over in front of us with the gruff look on his face. When Keith came back to us he said that as long as we had the $1,500 we could come in a pick the car up (Keith wouldn't let my dad and I in the building at all till he got the OK from Dave) When we entered the building I said that I wanted an itemized bill and a receipt. Keith just asked if they could mail it to me or fax it to me. I said no, I want those things right now in my hand or I'm not going to pay you guy. He told me it would be a few minutes. I immediately went over to inspect the car and they never put my ignition switch back in, it was just hanging there, they never bothered to clean up their mess they made on the inside of my car. They had all sorts of wire clippings in my seat and all over the floor. Plus there were a few more things that they never bothered to put back together like my air cleaner seal and my coil bracket. I ran back out to the truck to get my camera to get some pictures. While I was going to get the camera my dad said that Keith needed to tell Dave that we were going to see him in court for all that has gone on.
My dad and I waited for almost half an hour for them to get the itemized bill and receipt together for us. Now I would have thought that stuff would have been available immediately, but it wasn't. All the time my dad and I were waiting for the bill, Ben still had the whole intimidation thing going, he was sitting over on the side of a truck, which was parked right next to my car, and kept staring at us. After I paid them I wanted to start the car up so I could drive it on the trailer, Keith told me that the shape it was in right now that it wasn't able to be started up and driven. I thought that after all those 40 hours it was just about fixed. So he pushed me out of the shop and told me he would keep it under 100mph. (I just kept thinking that now isn't the time to be joking with me) He pushed me up on the trailer and before I got out of the car, Keith ran back inside the building. My dad and I didn't get any sort of thank you for paying for the car and being cooperative. When my dad and I strapped the car down I wanted to see it the car would start, we hooked everything up and cranked it over and it just kept cranking over really slowly and the starter solenoid started smoking. I was pretty furious by that point cause the car didn't start and I have no idea if it ever started or not, I'm just going to what they said. After than my dad and I left and went home to drop the car off.
Last night I was referred to a lawyer by and friend and gave word for him to call me back. At 6:56pm this lawyer called me back and I told him everything that was going on. I was told that since I never signed anything and there was nothing written up on what to do to the car, I have a very solid case for myself. I was also told that Red Zone had violated the Consumer Sales Act and the odds were strongly in my favor of winning.
So that is pretty much where I stand right now, I'm going to talk to another lawyer tomorrow that is closer to me and handles these kinds of cases and see what can be done.
See Red Zone thought that I was just going to pay them, roll over and take the beating, but like I said before the fight is far from over. It is not fair for places like this to take advantage of any of us. To me it just seems that places like this get away with these kinds of thing all the time, but I'm about to give them a serious reality check.
James
8/28/10, 10:23 PM
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Oh... I wanted to post the itemized bill on here for you guys to see. Check it out and let me know if you think it's pretty fair on what they charged me. I know it's a little small but if you can't read it just let me know.
I really like the first one on the bill, where it says that it took an hour to go over the car with the customer. Um... it was actually more like 10 minutes, if that. The rest of the time my dad I were there Keith was actually showing us around the shop and showing off the owners 1969 Mach 1 428CJ. So I find that hour time to be nothing more than a slap in the face. I also enjoy seeing that it took over 30 hours of electrical tests and they still couldn't fix the problem!
James
I really like the first one on the bill, where it says that it took an hour to go over the car with the customer. Um... it was actually more like 10 minutes, if that. The rest of the time my dad I were there Keith was actually showing us around the shop and showing off the owners 1969 Mach 1 428CJ. So I find that hour time to be nothing more than a slap in the face. I also enjoy seeing that it took over 30 hours of electrical tests and they still couldn't fix the problem!
James
8/29/10, 01:33 AM
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they spent 22 hours on electrical tests and electrical diagnosis, 30.25 if you count tracking down the issue? I bet they could have completely re-wired the car in that amount of time, and they are charging you to have someone help Keith do his job? Sounds like some BS charges there for sure.
8/29/10, 02:08 PM
#8
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Sounds like they're completely making sh*t up, and trying to charge you labor for the car just sitting there. "Come on Pookie! Let's burn this motherf*cker down!" 
You've been a lot nicer than I would have been...
You've been a lot nicer than I would have been...
8/29/10, 08:17 PM
#9
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they spent 22 hours on electrical tests and electrical diagnosis, 30.25 if you count tracking down the issue? I bet they could have completely re-wired the car in that amount of time, and they are charging you to have someone help Keith do his job? Sounds like some BS charges there for sure.
James
8/29/10, 09:38 PM
#10
I would consult with a lawyer, but not hire one to file a suit. I think your best bet is small claims court. It looks like the statutory maximum for small claims court in your state is $3000 which you are well under as far as what you are out. Hiring a lawyer for a suit like this would most likely cost more than what you are owed back from the shop.
Here's a good place to start.
http://www.ohiojudges.org/_cms/tools...20Brochure.pdf
Here's a good place to start.
http://www.ohiojudges.org/_cms/tools...20Brochure.pdf
8/30/10, 12:26 AM
#11
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hahaha...they got to be on crack!
What is the difference between "Electrical Test" and "Electrical Diagnosis" sounds like they charged you twice for the same thing...lmao!!!
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What is the difference between "Electrical Test" and "Electrical Diagnosis" sounds like they charged you twice for the same thing...lmao!!!
_________________________________________________
8/30/10, 04:55 AM
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You are definately smart for keeping a cool head in this situation. Write everything down that had happened and go to small claims court like suggested above. Thats your best chance to get your cash back. And take advantage of every chance you get to tell people about what crooks they are. Stop potential customers from going there. Hit em where it hurts.
8/30/10, 11:22 AM
#14
Sorry to hear about your ordeal. I went through something almost as bad when I bought my first car. I was almost 18, so my parents helped me a lot. Long story short, the guy I bought the car from was a crook - the $425 we paid him to get a "tune up" before we picked up the car (1974 Porsche 914) was money well spent, yeah right. The car broke down in the 30 miles to home - problem? Needed spark plug wires. I would have thought a $425 tune up would have covered that.
Anyway, we took the loser to court because the car wouldn't pass California smog like he promised. At the time, it was the seller's responsibility to pass smog, so we thought we had a good case. We never should have taken the car before it was smogged and registered, but I was 17 and clueless and my parents were like "you wanted it...". Anyway, after talking to the smog referree, mechanics, and DMV people it cost $3000 to get it to pass smog - carbs had to be removed and fuel injection had to be found and put on.
Court date came and we were ready. We had every bit of paper work, written agreements, transcripts of phone conversations with the seller, a baggy with the suspicious pills we found in the glove box, we were ready. My mom had to speak for me since I was a minor. She was nervous and stumbled on some points. The loser's defense? He had a Camera Ads. He pointed the temp judge to a VW parts page and pointed out that we could have bought a whole new engine for $500 (not really, used, short block only, no labor and no smog equipment included), so the $3000 we spent was a shake down. The temp judge proceeded to dress us down like we were thieves and we lost the case.
So lesson learned.
Price of the used car = $3,200
price of bogus tune up = $ 425
price to get it to pass smog = $3,000
price for new clutch assembly 2 weeks after purchase = $2,000
price for real tune up w/ new spark plugs and wires,etc. = $ 250
Money won in court = $0
At the end of it, we called the car the $10,000 pile of poop, because every time it broke down (a lot), a flatbed truck had to tow it, like a pooper scooper. Eventually sold the car for $3000. I do miss her.
Bottom line, I went through hell, you went through hell. It cost $1500 you didn't have. Now you are going to have to fix the mess that garage made of your car. You could write it off as a learning experience or you could pursue it. Just don't let the stress of it all outweigh the rewards.
It might be better time spent to take a class and learn auto electric and put it right yourself. Then you would never have to trust a garage with that stuff again.
Anyway, we took the loser to court because the car wouldn't pass California smog like he promised. At the time, it was the seller's responsibility to pass smog, so we thought we had a good case. We never should have taken the car before it was smogged and registered, but I was 17 and clueless and my parents were like "you wanted it...". Anyway, after talking to the smog referree, mechanics, and DMV people it cost $3000 to get it to pass smog - carbs had to be removed and fuel injection had to be found and put on.
Court date came and we were ready. We had every bit of paper work, written agreements, transcripts of phone conversations with the seller, a baggy with the suspicious pills we found in the glove box, we were ready. My mom had to speak for me since I was a minor. She was nervous and stumbled on some points. The loser's defense? He had a Camera Ads. He pointed the temp judge to a VW parts page and pointed out that we could have bought a whole new engine for $500 (not really, used, short block only, no labor and no smog equipment included), so the $3000 we spent was a shake down. The temp judge proceeded to dress us down like we were thieves and we lost the case.
So lesson learned.
Price of the used car = $3,200
price of bogus tune up = $ 425
price to get it to pass smog = $3,000
price for new clutch assembly 2 weeks after purchase = $2,000
price for real tune up w/ new spark plugs and wires,etc. = $ 250
Money won in court = $0
At the end of it, we called the car the $10,000 pile of poop, because every time it broke down (a lot), a flatbed truck had to tow it, like a pooper scooper. Eventually sold the car for $3000. I do miss her.
Bottom line, I went through hell, you went through hell. It cost $1500 you didn't have. Now you are going to have to fix the mess that garage made of your car. You could write it off as a learning experience or you could pursue it. Just don't let the stress of it all outweigh the rewards.
It might be better time spent to take a class and learn auto electric and put it right yourself. Then you would never have to trust a garage with that stuff again.
8/30/10, 12:05 PM
#15
Legacy TMS Member
In addition, he also charged you sales tax on his labor rate. The (T) code at the end of the line tells the invoicing software to charge sales tax.
Unfortunately, any court solution is going to be your word against his word.
8/30/10, 12:37 PM
#16
A competent automotive service guy should not take 30 hours for the job you gave him.
In addition, he also charged you sales tax on his labor rate. The (T) code at the end of the line tells the invoicing software to charge sales tax.
Unfortunately, any court solution is going to be your word against his word.
In addition, he also charged you sales tax on his labor rate. The (T) code at the end of the line tells the invoicing software to charge sales tax.
Unfortunately, any court solution is going to be your word against his word.
And that's the beauty of small claims court, there is a lot more leeway in proving your case. The fact that he got the police down there and got a record of what the situation was is good. Also the fact that they performed this so called work without a contract specifying what was to be done is a huge factor in his side of the story.The burden of proof is different in small claims court. The purpose is to make him whole, to put him back in the same position he was in before he ever walked in the door. Not better, not worse. Don't go in asking for punitive damages and looking like you're trying to get a payday out of you're misfortune. Just that you want to be where you were to begin with.
8/30/10, 01:15 PM
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I had a simple rear end that didn't damage the vehicle but hurt my neck. I wasted 6 mos with a chiro and then switched to physical therapy that was finally working to heal my neck. But my auto policy only lasted 12 mos per incident and I wanted to continue until it was fully healed.
So I filed small claims - not asking for anything but another 6 mos of treatments. His insurance lawyer flew down, bumped it to circuit court where I attempted to present my case. He files a motion that my medical records are inadmissable - without a doctor (expert witness) in court ($1000).
Got my clock cleaned and had to pay $500. Afterwards the lawyer apologized all over himself for doing that. Asked why I didn't have a lawyer and my doctor present and I told him I was NOT trying to get any damages or some big law suit. Just wanted my neck fixed like it was before your client hit me - which is why I files small claims. There was never any doubt that he hit me at the stoplight. But by bumping it to regular court I was in the lions den where he knew all the motions and tricks to keep me from even presenting my case fully. I felt like I had duct tape on my mouth standing before the judge.
So small claims sounds simple - but it doesn't always work out that way.
Last edited by cdynaco; 8/30/10 at 01:20 PM.
8/30/10, 01:25 PM
#19
True, but if he's a wily character that's played this game before, he can always bump it up to regular court. And then the system is totally gamed for the lawyers.
I had a simple rear end that didn't damage the vehicle but hurt my neck. I wasted 6 mos with a chiro and then switched to physical therapy that was finally working to heal my neck. But my auto policy only lasted 12 mos per incident and I wanted to continue until it was fully healed.
So I filed small claims - not asking for anything but another 6 mos of treatments. His insurance lawyer flew down, bumped it to circuit court where I attempted to present my case. He files a motion that my medical records are inadmissable - without a doctor (expert witness) in court ($1000).
Got my clock cleaned and had to pay $500. Afterwards the lawyer apologized all over himself for doing that. Asked why I didn't have a lawyer and my doctor present and I told him I was NOT trying to get any damages or some big law suit. Just wanted my neck fixed like it was before your client hit me. There was never any doubt that he hit me at the stoplight.
So small claims sounds simple - but it doesn't always work out that way.
I had a simple rear end that didn't damage the vehicle but hurt my neck. I wasted 6 mos with a chiro and then switched to physical therapy that was finally working to heal my neck. But my auto policy only lasted 12 mos per incident and I wanted to continue until it was fully healed.
So I filed small claims - not asking for anything but another 6 mos of treatments. His insurance lawyer flew down, bumped it to circuit court where I attempted to present my case. He files a motion that my medical records are inadmissable - without a doctor (expert witness) in court ($1000).
Got my clock cleaned and had to pay $500. Afterwards the lawyer apologized all over himself for doing that. Asked why I didn't have a lawyer and my doctor present and I told him I was NOT trying to get any damages or some big law suit. Just wanted my neck fixed like it was before your client hit me. There was never any doubt that he hit me at the stoplight.
So small claims sounds simple - but it doesn't always work out that way.
Last edited by Rather B.Blown; 8/30/10 at 01:27 PM.
8/30/10, 01:58 PM
#20
I just noticed this on their website....
So why did they charge you $50 to "go over the car with customer". And where is this detailed list with your signature that you approved? I would make screen shots of this on their website and print it out (right now in case they change something on it). Introduce it in court and ask them to produce the detailed list of the work to be done with your approval.
We provide written estimates free of charge.
We will go over the car with you and make a detailed list of what you want done to your vehicle. We will explain in detail your pricing and how it can change depending on what we find after complete disassembly. Nothing over and above what you have approved will be done to your vehicle without contacting you and explaining the problem. There will be no surprises on the invoice.
http://www.redzonemotorsportsllc.com....cfm?id=163382
We will go over the car with you and make a detailed list of what you want done to your vehicle. We will explain in detail your pricing and how it can change depending on what we find after complete disassembly. Nothing over and above what you have approved will be done to your vehicle without contacting you and explaining the problem. There will be no surprises on the invoice.
http://www.redzonemotorsportsllc.com....cfm?id=163382