I paid 2.25/gallon for gas today...
7/10/05, 06:54 PM
#21
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Originally posted by Caleb@July 10, 2005, 6:18 AM
I'm stationed over here in England, and off base its about $5.65 a gallon right now if you convert it to US dollars... so feel lucky!
I'm stationed over here in England, and off base its about $5.65 a gallon right now if you convert it to US dollars... so feel lucky!
What is on post?
7/10/05, 08:31 PM
#22
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Gas will be over $3.00 per gal soon. Simply a fact of life.
The left wingers love to blame oil girl of ill reputes like Bush & cheny, and the right wingers like to blame tree huggers. Neither is of course true...
The truth is that consumption is growing so fast that it can simply not be removed from the ground, transported and refined fast enough to keep up. This drives the price up...
As for ANWAR, it is 100% political and complete BS from a supply stand point.
1st it would take about 10 years for any significant oil to be produced from the region.
2nd the oil companies could have removed the oil many years ago when it was legal to drill in ANWAR. They did not becaue their own geologists found that there was not enough oil there to be worth the effort.
3rd the ANWAR is really about getting the fed to pay for roads into the area so that it can be developed in the near future.
In short is makes a good political sound bite for political spin doctors, but has little to do with solving the countries energy demands.
However, all is not gloom an doom. The key is of course methonol ( not ethonol ). Have you ever wondered why you rarely hear about methonol as an alternative fuel? Simply, it is only one that scares the oil indistry. It also probably offends the tea totalers because you could drink the stuff and get drunk. It can be easly produced and used as a fuel in almost any modern car with very little if any modifications. Heck racers have been using it for years. It is the primary fuel used on many large farms because the farmers can produce it easly. Another nice thing about methonol is that is mixes easly with gas. There is no need to alter the fuel distributuon system in the U.S. Think about it, almost EVERY car with a modern fuel injection system can easly run on about a 50/50 blend of methonol and gas with only a simply computer modification. That would cut the gas consumption in half.... The best part is that the fuel burns cleaner, so you get less smog... The only problem is that the oil industry sucessfully lobbyed congress to pass laws that sevearly limit the fuel's production. I wonder why they went to that much trouble?
I have little doubt that as soon as the supply of gas drops to a certian point ( and prices rise ), methonol will suddenly be the "wonder fuel" of choice as the U.S. can easly produce enought to fuel the world...
Anyway it is just my opinion based on everything I have read about the great oil/gas debates....
The left wingers love to blame oil girl of ill reputes like Bush & cheny, and the right wingers like to blame tree huggers. Neither is of course true...
The truth is that consumption is growing so fast that it can simply not be removed from the ground, transported and refined fast enough to keep up. This drives the price up...
As for ANWAR, it is 100% political and complete BS from a supply stand point.
1st it would take about 10 years for any significant oil to be produced from the region.
2nd the oil companies could have removed the oil many years ago when it was legal to drill in ANWAR. They did not becaue their own geologists found that there was not enough oil there to be worth the effort.
3rd the ANWAR is really about getting the fed to pay for roads into the area so that it can be developed in the near future.
In short is makes a good political sound bite for political spin doctors, but has little to do with solving the countries energy demands.
However, all is not gloom an doom. The key is of course methonol ( not ethonol ). Have you ever wondered why you rarely hear about methonol as an alternative fuel? Simply, it is only one that scares the oil indistry. It also probably offends the tea totalers because you could drink the stuff and get drunk. It can be easly produced and used as a fuel in almost any modern car with very little if any modifications. Heck racers have been using it for years. It is the primary fuel used on many large farms because the farmers can produce it easly. Another nice thing about methonol is that is mixes easly with gas. There is no need to alter the fuel distributuon system in the U.S. Think about it, almost EVERY car with a modern fuel injection system can easly run on about a 50/50 blend of methonol and gas with only a simply computer modification. That would cut the gas consumption in half.... The best part is that the fuel burns cleaner, so you get less smog... The only problem is that the oil industry sucessfully lobbyed congress to pass laws that sevearly limit the fuel's production. I wonder why they went to that much trouble?
I have little doubt that as soon as the supply of gas drops to a certian point ( and prices rise ), methonol will suddenly be the "wonder fuel" of choice as the U.S. can easly produce enought to fuel the world...
Anyway it is just my opinion based on everything I have read about the great oil/gas debates....
7/10/05, 10:23 PM
#23
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The problem with gas hike is demand, but don't forget energy companies are making record profits.
The gov't should have been increasing taxes on fuel long ago to subsidize alternative fuel research and production here. For example, we pay an extra dime (or more) a gallon to subsidize new refining procedures research for vegetable oil based fuels. The increase would offset the cost of bio fuels vs dino fuels, spur better fuel economy standards and the subsidation would spur new technology which could in turn be used to sell to the world.
I bought a 6.0 stroke hoping for better fuel economy and that biodiesel was in the near future. It produces near no greenhouse gasses and airborne particles. Unfortunately the government has provided little incentives for perfecting fuels produced here. Wouldn't you rather pay a farmer to grow soybeans than a towel head to sell us dino fuel? The US is the only country with the agricultural means to produce enough agri goods for bio fuels, which is why Japan hasn't done it yet.
Now, let me be the first to say I don't like creating another government bureaucracy to manage funds for fuel subsidation. I don't like big gov't in everything, but we need to look out for our own good in the long run on this one. If we wait too long we will be far too dependant on Middle Eastern countries for our energy sources and if we are lucky Japan or Germany will solve our problems but the US needs to be at the forefront of the technology and reap the rewards.
We need to quit sending our money to people who would bomb us if they could and give it to farmers here. End oil dependency and give our economy a boost. Will it cost us? Sure, in the short run, but somebody is going to do it, somebody HAS to. It may as well be us.
The gov't should have been increasing taxes on fuel long ago to subsidize alternative fuel research and production here. For example, we pay an extra dime (or more) a gallon to subsidize new refining procedures research for vegetable oil based fuels. The increase would offset the cost of bio fuels vs dino fuels, spur better fuel economy standards and the subsidation would spur new technology which could in turn be used to sell to the world.
I bought a 6.0 stroke hoping for better fuel economy and that biodiesel was in the near future. It produces near no greenhouse gasses and airborne particles. Unfortunately the government has provided little incentives for perfecting fuels produced here. Wouldn't you rather pay a farmer to grow soybeans than a towel head to sell us dino fuel? The US is the only country with the agricultural means to produce enough agri goods for bio fuels, which is why Japan hasn't done it yet.
Now, let me be the first to say I don't like creating another government bureaucracy to manage funds for fuel subsidation. I don't like big gov't in everything, but we need to look out for our own good in the long run on this one. If we wait too long we will be far too dependant on Middle Eastern countries for our energy sources and if we are lucky Japan or Germany will solve our problems but the US needs to be at the forefront of the technology and reap the rewards.
We need to quit sending our money to people who would bomb us if they could and give it to farmers here. End oil dependency and give our economy a boost. Will it cost us? Sure, in the short run, but somebody is going to do it, somebody HAS to. It may as well be us.
7/10/05, 10:39 PM
#24
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Simply put...
Crude oil prices will rise=the global economy will decline=Crude oil demand will drop= Crude oil prices will drop= lower gas prices
Then there is the scenario where China allows their money to fluctuate freely on the monetary exchange market. But, that has many unknowns.
Crude oil prices will rise=the global economy will decline=Crude oil demand will drop= Crude oil prices will drop= lower gas prices
Then there is the scenario where China allows their money to fluctuate freely on the monetary exchange market. But, that has many unknowns.
7/11/05, 01:08 AM
#25
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Originally posted by Tres Wright@July 10, 2005, 6:30 PM
==If Bush would just tap into our own oil supply that we have over here & not buy anymore for a month or two then proces would totally go down.==
Only temporarily. We've drained our domestic fields to the point that extracting any more is going to take big bucks. We can tap into the strategic reserves and that might lower prices (actually it probably wouldn't, the price is driven by speculation and the speculators know we can't tap our reserves for long), but that's a temporary fix at best. I'm afraid the days of "cheap" (under 2.00) gas are behind us. Worldwide demand continues to rise, China in particular is becoming a big oil market. The supply is finite. Basic economic rule: if supply is fixed and demand increases, price rises to balance it out. The future looks bleak frankly. The middle east isn't sitting on top of unlimited oil either, and the rising demand is going to drain the finite world supply even quicker. Where does it all end? It's scary to contemplate. I was reading the other day that when you factor in the production cycle, hydrogen cars are actually getting the equivalent of about 24 mpg. Electric cars aren't much better (what is used to create electricity? Mostly oil.) Natural gas is an option, but supply is finite there as well. Fuel cell technology is still far from being able to realistically power a car and solar has never been viable unless you don't mind driving 20 mph everywhere. I think where it is going is we'll all be driving hybrids getting 60+ mpg and paying 10 bucks/ gallon for gas. I don't think we can ever wean ourselves off of oil. Mustangs will be toys that get driven once or twice a month
==If Bush would just tap into our own oil supply that we have over here & not buy anymore for a month or two then proces would totally go down.==
Only temporarily. We've drained our domestic fields to the point that extracting any more is going to take big bucks. We can tap into the strategic reserves and that might lower prices (actually it probably wouldn't, the price is driven by speculation and the speculators know we can't tap our reserves for long), but that's a temporary fix at best. I'm afraid the days of "cheap" (under 2.00) gas are behind us. Worldwide demand continues to rise, China in particular is becoming a big oil market. The supply is finite. Basic economic rule: if supply is fixed and demand increases, price rises to balance it out. The future looks bleak frankly. The middle east isn't sitting on top of unlimited oil either, and the rising demand is going to drain the finite world supply even quicker. Where does it all end? It's scary to contemplate. I was reading the other day that when you factor in the production cycle, hydrogen cars are actually getting the equivalent of about 24 mpg. Electric cars aren't much better (what is used to create electricity? Mostly oil.) Natural gas is an option, but supply is finite there as well. Fuel cell technology is still far from being able to realistically power a car and solar has never been viable unless you don't mind driving 20 mph everywhere. I think where it is going is we'll all be driving hybrids getting 60+ mpg and paying 10 bucks/ gallon for gas. I don't think we can ever wean ourselves off of oil. Mustangs will be toys that get driven once or twice a month
you're exactly right. 95% of petroleum geologists will agree that we are at peak production as we speak or will be there within a couple years. it's a little known fact that 60-70% of oil flowing from the ground today is from wells drilled before 1970. No major fields have been discovered in the past 20 years, yet countries' reserves continue to rise...why? b/c the more oil they say they have in the ground, the more than can export. reality is going to hit the industrial world (and especially the US, with it's car-based infastructure) very hard, and very soon. check out:
Hubbert Peak
7/11/05, 06:46 AM
#26
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Originally posted by metfoo@July 10, 2005, 3:46 PM
2.35 in detroit, 2.50 in mid michigan.
I paid 1.99 in detroit during the weekend of the fourth. I think its complete bullcrap that the price just happens to jump 50 cents in a week
2.35 in detroit, 2.50 in mid michigan.
I paid 1.99 in detroit during the weekend of the fourth. I think its complete bullcrap that the price just happens to jump 50 cents in a week
I paid 2.179 at Costco on Saturday. I don't know how they can low ball the big oil companies, but they are.
7/11/05, 07:50 AM
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sranger Posted Yesterday, 10:34 PM
Gas will be over $3.00 per gal soon. Simply a fact of life.
Gas will be over $3.00 per gal soon. Simply a fact of life.
Hear on the radio this morning that a gas station out in The Hamptons (NY) is $3 and change per gallon. Well, it is the Hamptons but still..
7/11/05, 02:36 PM
#30
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$2.27 a gallon here in NJ. I had 1/3 a tank in my Escape and it took $24 to fill it the rest of the way. Talk about P issed!! I'll be going to the fill them all up and top every 2 days plan very soon.
7/16/05, 11:27 AM
#32
Originally posted by metfoo@July 10, 2005, 2:46 PM
2.35 in detroit, 2.50 in mid michigan.
I paid 1.99 in detroit during the weekend of the fourth. I think its complete bullcrap that the price just happens to jump 50 cents in a week
2.35 in detroit, 2.50 in mid michigan.
I paid 1.99 in detroit during the weekend of the fourth. I think its complete bullcrap that the price just happens to jump 50 cents in a week
Canada's worse yet. Regular today is 93.4/liter and premium is 98.4. 4 liters per US gallon = HORRENDOUS!!!!!!!!!
7/16/05, 01:21 PM
#33
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I paid $2.37 yesterday. But what are you going to do. They have us by the *****. Maybe some day in the future you young guys will be driving hybrid or hydrogen powered Mustangs that still perform great. I know we have the knowhow to do it. Even though I love my new Mustang, I feel that the American car companies truely need to get strongly into hybrid cars as a temporary solution while they develop hydrogen power. Someday this will all be a thing of the past and the sportscar/musclecar will live on in the reincarnation of a hybrid or hydrogen vehicle. 
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