2004 Electoral Vote Calculator.
8/6/04, 11:50 AM
#82
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Originally posted by thezeppelin8@August 6, 2004, 10:29 AM
the people i blame the most for the condition the world is in:
big corporations
the people i blame the most for the condition the world is in:
big corporations
Real democracy comes from waking up!
by Howard Zinn and Gary Krane
The political culture of the United States is obsessed with and dominated by voting. Every election year is accompanied by the media's and the politicians' obsession with persuading Americans that voting for one candidate or another (and only if they are Democrat or Republican, of course) is the most important act of citizenship.
We get high on voting and forget that whether presidents have been Republican or Democrat, impotent or oversexed, they have followed the same basic policies. Whether crooks or Boy Scouts, handsome or homely, agile or clumsy, they have taxed the poor; subsidized the rich; squandered the nation's commonwealth (our minerals, airwaves, water and forests); wasted our taxes on bombers, missiles, ships and other corporate welfare; ignored the decay of the cities; and done so little for poor minority kids that for every Afro-American in college, five are now in prison, and for every Latino in college, three are in prison.
Harry Truman was blunt, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon were wily. And Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were charming. But the first three spent billions and sent armies to Asia to defend dictators and massacre more than 2 million of the people we claimed to be helping, and the latter three again spent billions of our taxes to also arm and prop up dictators and oligarchies, and to subvert democratic movements against those governments in places like Indonesia, El Salvador and Guatemala, ending in murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. John F. Kennedy was witty; Carter was "caring"; George Bush, the elder, was firm; and Reagan said he was against big government. But all expanded our federal budgets enormously by spending hundreds of billions building up grotesquely huge nuclear weapons systems (we continue building B-2 bombers at $2 billion apiece) at the expense of providing a great public education system, health care for all Americans regardless of income, jobs that pay a living wage and mass transit for all of our cities.
Despite the decimation of the former Soviet Union, Al Gore and George W. Bush both want to continue this military spending madness, which year after year consumes more than 50 percent of our discretionary federal budget (the budget that the president and Congress determine). And Bush has the gall to claim he is against big government.
Nixon was corrupt and Gerald Ford straightforward, Reagan endearing and Clinton someone who claimed to feel the pain of the poor. But all coldly cut essential benefits for the poor and gave hundreds of billions of dollars of favors instead to rich corporations and billionaires.
This obsession with voting is made all the worse by corporate media's obsession with "fine distinctions." The more the media can keep us distracted by this tweedledum-tweedledee horse race, the more they (and therefore the major candidates themselves) can avoid dealing with the huge issues and solutions being purposely ignored by both major party candidates: Issues like who in fact owns and controls both houses, universal health care, full public funding of elections, seriously cutting the defense budget, decriminalizing drugs, returning to labor their rights to organize, and the frightening concentration of media ownership itself.
Why else did they both make sure Ralph Nader was kept out of the debates? The tragedy of all this is that this cult of voting and fine distinctions (and often "personality" as well) takes the energy of ordinary citizens, which, combined, can be a powerful force, and depletes it in the spectator sport of voting.
Today, sadly, our most cherished moment of democratic citizenship comes when we leave the house once in four years to choose between two mediocre Anglo-Saxon males who have been trundled out by big corporate and billionaire-run political caucuses, million-dollar primaries and managed conventions for the rigged presidential debate and multiple choice test we call a "democratic" election.
Presidents come and go, but the 200 top corporations keep increasing their almost complete control over our elections and the two major parties' candidates (with big corporations and billionaires funding 90 percent to 98 percent of both parties' budgets), over our work lives by weakening labor's rights, over our health care rights (43 million uninsured now compared to 32 million when Clinton took office), over our airwaves, and over our legal and court system, even determining how easily any of us can be sent to prison for victimless "crimes."
To further prove greed knows no boundaries, they now want to take over public education and social security. No president in this century has stopped the trend. Not even Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Only when mass movements have galvanized the country have presidents made important reforms, as when strikes and turmoil throughout the nation in the 1930s pushed FDR into his New Deal measures. Sure, Roosevelt was a sensitive man. But it took mass protests to sharpen that sensitivity and make it take action. Then and only then did he take huge steps to help the poor, establish the minimum wage and create Social Security (which had been the Socialist Party's most popular demand).
But that didn't change the basic nature of an unfettered capitalist system, whose highest priority has always been profits and power and to heck with the rest.
Voting Day 2000 has again come and gone. Sure, one of the presidential candidates is better than the other. But we will go a long way from spectator democracy to real democracy when we understand that the future of this country doesn't depend, mainly, on who is our next president. It depends on whether the American citizen, fed up with the buying off of our Congress and president by the billionaires; fed up with the murderous greed of our health care system and the pharmaceutical companies; fed up with the planetary self-destructive path of our energy, auto, lumber, agribusiness and chemical companies; will organize all over the country a clamor for change even greater than the labor uprisings of the '30s or the black rebellion of the '60s and shake this country out of old paths and falsehood into new paths and the truth.
by Howard Zinn and Gary Krane
The political culture of the United States is obsessed with and dominated by voting. Every election year is accompanied by the media's and the politicians' obsession with persuading Americans that voting for one candidate or another (and only if they are Democrat or Republican, of course) is the most important act of citizenship.
We get high on voting and forget that whether presidents have been Republican or Democrat, impotent or oversexed, they have followed the same basic policies. Whether crooks or Boy Scouts, handsome or homely, agile or clumsy, they have taxed the poor; subsidized the rich; squandered the nation's commonwealth (our minerals, airwaves, water and forests); wasted our taxes on bombers, missiles, ships and other corporate welfare; ignored the decay of the cities; and done so little for poor minority kids that for every Afro-American in college, five are now in prison, and for every Latino in college, three are in prison.
Harry Truman was blunt, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon were wily. And Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were charming. But the first three spent billions and sent armies to Asia to defend dictators and massacre more than 2 million of the people we claimed to be helping, and the latter three again spent billions of our taxes to also arm and prop up dictators and oligarchies, and to subvert democratic movements against those governments in places like Indonesia, El Salvador and Guatemala, ending in murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. John F. Kennedy was witty; Carter was "caring"; George Bush, the elder, was firm; and Reagan said he was against big government. But all expanded our federal budgets enormously by spending hundreds of billions building up grotesquely huge nuclear weapons systems (we continue building B-2 bombers at $2 billion apiece) at the expense of providing a great public education system, health care for all Americans regardless of income, jobs that pay a living wage and mass transit for all of our cities.
Despite the decimation of the former Soviet Union, Al Gore and George W. Bush both want to continue this military spending madness, which year after year consumes more than 50 percent of our discretionary federal budget (the budget that the president and Congress determine). And Bush has the gall to claim he is against big government.
Nixon was corrupt and Gerald Ford straightforward, Reagan endearing and Clinton someone who claimed to feel the pain of the poor. But all coldly cut essential benefits for the poor and gave hundreds of billions of dollars of favors instead to rich corporations and billionaires.
This obsession with voting is made all the worse by corporate media's obsession with "fine distinctions." The more the media can keep us distracted by this tweedledum-tweedledee horse race, the more they (and therefore the major candidates themselves) can avoid dealing with the huge issues and solutions being purposely ignored by both major party candidates: Issues like who in fact owns and controls both houses, universal health care, full public funding of elections, seriously cutting the defense budget, decriminalizing drugs, returning to labor their rights to organize, and the frightening concentration of media ownership itself.
Why else did they both make sure Ralph Nader was kept out of the debates? The tragedy of all this is that this cult of voting and fine distinctions (and often "personality" as well) takes the energy of ordinary citizens, which, combined, can be a powerful force, and depletes it in the spectator sport of voting.
Today, sadly, our most cherished moment of democratic citizenship comes when we leave the house once in four years to choose between two mediocre Anglo-Saxon males who have been trundled out by big corporate and billionaire-run political caucuses, million-dollar primaries and managed conventions for the rigged presidential debate and multiple choice test we call a "democratic" election.
Presidents come and go, but the 200 top corporations keep increasing their almost complete control over our elections and the two major parties' candidates (with big corporations and billionaires funding 90 percent to 98 percent of both parties' budgets), over our work lives by weakening labor's rights, over our health care rights (43 million uninsured now compared to 32 million when Clinton took office), over our airwaves, and over our legal and court system, even determining how easily any of us can be sent to prison for victimless "crimes."
To further prove greed knows no boundaries, they now want to take over public education and social security. No president in this century has stopped the trend. Not even Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Only when mass movements have galvanized the country have presidents made important reforms, as when strikes and turmoil throughout the nation in the 1930s pushed FDR into his New Deal measures. Sure, Roosevelt was a sensitive man. But it took mass protests to sharpen that sensitivity and make it take action. Then and only then did he take huge steps to help the poor, establish the minimum wage and create Social Security (which had been the Socialist Party's most popular demand).
But that didn't change the basic nature of an unfettered capitalist system, whose highest priority has always been profits and power and to heck with the rest.
Voting Day 2000 has again come and gone. Sure, one of the presidential candidates is better than the other. But we will go a long way from spectator democracy to real democracy when we understand that the future of this country doesn't depend, mainly, on who is our next president. It depends on whether the American citizen, fed up with the buying off of our Congress and president by the billionaires; fed up with the murderous greed of our health care system and the pharmaceutical companies; fed up with the planetary self-destructive path of our energy, auto, lumber, agribusiness and chemical companies; will organize all over the country a clamor for change even greater than the labor uprisings of the '30s or the black rebellion of the '60s and shake this country out of old paths and falsehood into new paths and the truth.
8/6/04, 11:54 AM
#83
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Originally posted by thezeppelin8@August 6, 2004, 10:56 AM
I am Mexican-American, my parents came here 22 years ago. You dont know anything about this issue, so i suggest no more comments on these remarks.
I am Mexican-American, my parents came here 22 years ago. You dont know anything about this issue, so i suggest no more comments on these remarks.
8/6/04, 12:00 PM
#84
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Originally posted by EleanorsMine@August 6, 2004, 12:25 PM
IMO- He is trying to do what Dad couldn't. We should leave there today, and not look back, but it is not going to happen.
We should be over in afghanistan hunting the people who DID attack us, not killing servicemen for no reason but personal over in Iraq.
IMO- He is trying to do what Dad couldn't. We should leave there today, and not look back, but it is not going to happen.
We should be over in afghanistan hunting the people who DID attack us, not killing servicemen for no reason but personal over in Iraq.
Do you pay any attention to what's going on in the world?
We have tens of thousands of troops in Afghanistan right now as we speak, and a minor war is happening over there, too. Just because you don't see it all the time on your local news doesn't mean you need to be blind to current events.
My ex's boyfriend is over there right now defending our country, searching for Osama bin Laden. He is a sniper assigned to a region near where bin Laden was last believed to be. He can't legally say, but we know he's killed some bad people over there.
If we leave Iraq today, and don't look back, that would be our greatest failure. The terrorists and murderers would win, and would continue to harm the INNOCENT Iraqi civilians. Nearly every single one of those men and women who gave their lives defending our country were proud to do so. That is what they knew might happen when they signed up for the military. And that's what hurts so bad to those over there now... They hear about all the politicizing and unsupportive Americans over here, and it seriously hurts their morale. They're prepared to die for this country, but it makes them wonder why they are when people don't realize the good they're doing over there.
And, you're right... he IS trying to finish what Dad couldn't... Bush Sr. backed out early (like you suggest we do now) because he felt the heavy hand of the left-wing pushing down on him. This Bush has a spine and is willing to give up his presidency to free a country.
But, war never solved anything... it has never won independence, never freed the slaves, never ended the Holocaust, and has certainly never ousted murderous and threatening dictators.
And, another thing...
Let's not play the ethnic card here... I, myself, am from a family that is 50% Mexican. My grandparents came here from Mexico 55 years ago. But, I think our borders should be way more secure than they are now.
8/6/04, 12:06 PM
#85
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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Originally posted by Dr Iven+August 6, 2004, 1:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dr Iven @ August 6, 2004, 1:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-EleanorsMine@August 6, 2004, 12:25 PM
IMO- He is trying to do what Dad couldn't. We should leave there today, and not look back, but it is not going to happen.
We should be over in afghanistan hunting the people who DID attack us, not killing servicemen for no reason but personal over in Iraq.
IMO- He is trying to do what Dad couldn't. We should leave there today, and not look back, but it is not going to happen.
We should be over in afghanistan hunting the people who DID attack us, not killing servicemen for no reason but personal over in Iraq.
Do you pay any attention to what's going on in the world?
We have tens of thousands of troops in Afghanistan right now as we speak, and a minor war is happening over there, too. Just because you don't see it all the time on your local news doesn't mean you need to be blind to current events.
My ex's boyfriend is over there right now defending our country, searching for Osama bin Laden. He is a sniper assigned to a region near where bin Laden was last believed to be. He can't legally say, but we know he's killed some bad people over there.
If we leave Iraq today, and don't look back, that would be our greatest failure. The terrorists and murderers would win, and would continue to harm the INNOCENT Iraqi civilians. Nearly every single one of those men and women who gave their lives defending our country were proud to do so. That is what they knew might happen when they signed up for the military. And that's what hurts so bad to those over there now... They hear about all the politicizing and unsupportive Americans over here, and it seriously hurts their morale. They're prepared to die for this country, but it makes them wonder why they are when people don't realize the good they're doing over there.
And, you're right... he IS trying to finish what Dad couldn't... Bush Sr. backed out early (like you suggest we do now) because he felt the heavy hand of the left-wing pushing down on him. This Bush has a spine and is willing to give up his presidency to free a country.
But, war never solved anything... it has never won independence, never freed the slaves, never ended the Holocaust, and has certainly never ousted murderous and threatening dictators.
And, another thing...
Let's not play the ethnic card here... I, myself, am from a family that is 50% Mexican. My grandparents came here from Mexico 55 years ago. But, I think our borders should be way more secure than they are now. [/b][/quote]
I pay attention, I would just like to hear more about hunting for Osama that what is going on in Iraq. Since all you see on the news and news sites is Iraq.. And most not good(perhaps the GOOD stuff that happens over there?) that is where I have drawn my conclusions. I am no dixie chick.
8/6/04, 12:08 PM
#86
GTR Member
the U.S. is by itself in this war. why do you think so many countries do not support the war.
now the war is against a country that is being invaded for their oil
what did iraq do????
) What didn't Saddam Hussein do? BTW, about the WMD, he used them in the 80s against Iran. that sould be proof enough, but I guess tens of thousands of dead innocent people aren't enough proof for you. Stop listening to the liberal garbage the media puts out. Do your own investigation and read what he did. About the WMD, no we didn't find them. Is that an embarrassment? Yes. Should we put Saddam back? Is that what you want? A tyrant back in power? BTW, we killed some innocent folks, well, war isn't pretty. I guess you would have said Hitler was ok too? Let him go? What did he do? He didn't bother the US? What if we did just that WWII? Don't tell me not to compare the two, becasue it is a DIRECT comparison. Both were tyrants, and BOTH showed previous aggession towards their neighboring countries. BOTH committed genocide of their own people, but Hitler was bad, and Saddam was ok, right?
but this election is about selecting the lesser of two evils
the people i blame the most for the condition the world is in:
big corporations
big corporations
Just my $.03 (adjusted for inflation)
8/6/04, 12:15 PM
#87
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Hahaha, I buy American whenever I can. I try whenever I can to avoid the little golden label (made in China), because whenever you buy China, you support their military, which is probably the only thing in the world that could wipe us out in the future if they so choose.
8/6/04, 12:16 PM
#88
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Originally posted by EleanorsMine@August 6, 2004, 1:09 PM
I pay attention, I would just like to hear more about hunting for Osama that what is going on in Iraq. Since all you see on the news and news sites is Iraq.. And most not good(perhaps the GOOD stuff that happens over there?) that is where I have drawn my conclusions. I am no dixie chick.
I pay attention, I would just like to hear more about hunting for Osama that what is going on in Iraq. Since all you see on the news and news sites is Iraq.. And most not good(perhaps the GOOD stuff that happens over there?) that is where I have drawn my conclusions. I am no dixie chick.
8/6/04, 12:22 PM
#89
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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Originally posted by Dr Iven+August 6, 2004, 1:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dr Iven @ August 6, 2004, 1:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-EleanorsMine@August 6, 2004, 1:09 PM
I pay attention, I would just like to hear more about hunting for Osama that what is going on in Iraq. Since all you see on the news and news sites is Iraq.. And most not good(perhaps the GOOD stuff that happens over there?) that is where I have drawn my conclusions. I am no dixie chick.
I pay attention, I would just like to hear more about hunting for Osama that what is going on in Iraq. Since all you see on the news and news sites is Iraq.. And most not good(perhaps the GOOD stuff that happens over there?) that is where I have drawn my conclusions. I am no dixie chick.
[/b][/quote]Ive gotten so messed up about it, I don't know WHAT to watch oe read anymore.
This Stars For Kerry thing has me hot-pay to hear them spew venom, I threw my DMB cds out because of it.
Bush-Hating Rockers Hope to Raise $44 Million for Kerry:
We'll certainly never buy another Bruce Springsteen CD or concert ticket. It's estimated the tour he and other Bush-hating rockers are launching could raise $44 million for John "Atrocities" Kerry.
Oh, but these stars don't care quite as much about the poor as they do about their beloved admitted war criminal. The average ticket could cost $58.71, USA Today reported. Some seats will cost hundreds of dollars.
Others on the Guilty White Liberals' tour include Pearl Jam, the dreaded Dixie Chicks, Dave Matthews, Bonnie Raitt and - he's still alive? - Jackson Browne.
O'Reilly Debunks Springsteen's 'Nonpartisan' Claim
"Blue collar" multi-millionaire rock n'roller Bruce Springsteen is organizing a concert tour dedicated to defeating George Bush in November.
But in an op-ed piece in Thursday's New York Times, "the Boss" tries to paint the move as a break with his apolitical past, claiming, "Personally, I have always stayed one step away from partisan politics."
Not so, says Fox News Channel host Bill O'Reilly, who treated his audience last night to a laundry list of Springsteen's anti-GOP activities.
• "The Boss" has "consistently pushed left wing defamation books at his concert and associated with radical elements of the Democratic Party," O'Reilly noted.
• In 1984, Springsteen attacked Ronald Reagan's policies after Reagan adopted his "Born in the USA" as a campaign theme song.
• In 1991, the aging rocker raised money for the radical left Christic Institute, O'Reilly noted.
• And to top it all off, last September Springsteen actually called for the impeachment of President Bush.
O'Reilly said that while "the Boss" has a perfect right to campaign for anybody he wants to, "Don't be telling me you're not a partisan [while] suggesting the government divide up everybody's wealth while [you're] sitting there in the Beverly Hills."
"If Springsteen isn't a partisan," the Fox host added, "then I'm Whoopi Goldberg
8/6/04, 12:29 PM
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O'Reilly's awesome... he may be a little conservative, but he's also quick to point out Republican mistakes. He is very critical of some of Bush's policies, but also very supportive of most of them. He is fair and balanced in my opinion. He never really comes out and says with what party he affiliates himself. 
8/6/04, 12:55 PM
#91
Shelby GT500 Member
I watched the video and stopped it as soon as I saw the kids and "uranium" being equated. That's a load of BS and that vid is nothing but an ignorant left wing propoganda tool.
There's no scientific evidence that DU causes cancer or mutations at all. I invite y'all to check the following links:
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/g0...14-D-9085M.html
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/t0...3_t314depu.html
http://www.deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_library/
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm
http://www.nato.int/du/home.htm
If you're too lazy to check the links, in short:
Uranium is a weakly radioactive element that occurs naturally in the environment. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) for the Department of Health and Human Services estimates there are an average of 4 tons of uranium in the top foot of soil in every square mile of land. A heavy metal similar to tungsten and lead, uranium occurs in soils in typical concentrations of a few parts per million (equivalent to about half a teaspoon of uranium in a typical 8-cubic yard dump truck-load of dirt).
Each of us ingests and inhales natural uranium every day from our air, water, food, and soil. The amount varies depending on the amount found where you live, and where the food you eat and the water you drink are produced. Consequently, each of us has some uranium in our body, and we eliminate some in our urine every day.
Uranium in our Bodies
Source Amount
(micrograms*)
Average Daily Intake: Liquid 2.1
Average Daily Intake: Food (U.S.) 0.9 - 1.5
Average Daily Intake: Inhalation 0.0010 - 0.010
Average Uranium (total) in the bodyAverage Uranium (total) in the body 2 - 62
*Note: 1 microgram = 0.000000035 ounces
Depleted Uranium - This very dense metal (1.7 times as dense as lead) is a by-product of the process by which uranium is enriched to produce reactor fuel and nuclear weapons components. The leftover uranium, 40% less radioactive than natural uranium, is called "depleted uranium," or DU. The Department of Energy (DOE) recently reported that the DU it provided to DoD for manufacturing armor plates and munitions may contain trace levels (a few parts per billion ) of contaminants including neptunium, plutonium, americium, technitium-99 and uranium-236. From a radiological perspective, these contaminants in DU add less than one percent to the radioactivity of DU itself. Medical scientists consider this insignificant.
There's no scientific evidence that DU causes cancer or mutations at all. I invite y'all to check the following links:
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/g0...14-D-9085M.html
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/t0...3_t314depu.html
http://www.deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_library/
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm
http://www.nato.int/du/home.htm
If you're too lazy to check the links, in short:
Uranium is a weakly radioactive element that occurs naturally in the environment. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) for the Department of Health and Human Services estimates there are an average of 4 tons of uranium in the top foot of soil in every square mile of land. A heavy metal similar to tungsten and lead, uranium occurs in soils in typical concentrations of a few parts per million (equivalent to about half a teaspoon of uranium in a typical 8-cubic yard dump truck-load of dirt).
Each of us ingests and inhales natural uranium every day from our air, water, food, and soil. The amount varies depending on the amount found where you live, and where the food you eat and the water you drink are produced. Consequently, each of us has some uranium in our body, and we eliminate some in our urine every day.
Uranium in our Bodies
Source Amount
(micrograms*)
Average Daily Intake: Liquid 2.1
Average Daily Intake: Food (U.S.) 0.9 - 1.5
Average Daily Intake: Inhalation 0.0010 - 0.010
Average Uranium (total) in the bodyAverage Uranium (total) in the body 2 - 62
*Note: 1 microgram = 0.000000035 ounces
Depleted Uranium - This very dense metal (1.7 times as dense as lead) is a by-product of the process by which uranium is enriched to produce reactor fuel and nuclear weapons components. The leftover uranium, 40% less radioactive than natural uranium, is called "depleted uranium," or DU. The Department of Energy (DOE) recently reported that the DU it provided to DoD for manufacturing armor plates and munitions may contain trace levels (a few parts per billion ) of contaminants including neptunium, plutonium, americium, technitium-99 and uranium-236. From a radiological perspective, these contaminants in DU add less than one percent to the radioactivity of DU itself. Medical scientists consider this insignificant.
8/6/04, 01:36 PM
#92
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I'm a moderate Republican and former Marine officer who served a tour in Vietnam and I will probably vote for Bush again. I believe that our actions in Iraq are justified, and that we are still actively searching for bin Laden. Unfortunately, until we catch him, we aren't going to hear too much about it.
The swift boat website portrays a side of Kerry that he would prefer that we not see, especially the analysis of his fitness reports.
I was born in California. Had I been born south of the border, I would have tried my hardest to cross it to the north, legally or illegally. The next time you see people in the fields picking tomatos, take a closer look at them. You aren't going to see any people you know out there. These folks work very hard at jobs most of "us" wouldn't do.
Kerry claims to have a better plan for America. Right. Any politician can make that claim in a speech--and they do--but I still have yet to see any nuts and bolts details., and I'm not sure that I'd believe them even if I do.
Ah, just my opinion.
The swift boat website portrays a side of Kerry that he would prefer that we not see, especially the analysis of his fitness reports.
I was born in California. Had I been born south of the border, I would have tried my hardest to cross it to the north, legally or illegally. The next time you see people in the fields picking tomatos, take a closer look at them. You aren't going to see any people you know out there. These folks work very hard at jobs most of "us" wouldn't do.
Kerry claims to have a better plan for America. Right. Any politician can make that claim in a speech--and they do--but I still have yet to see any nuts and bolts details., and I'm not sure that I'd believe them even if I do.
Ah, just my opinion.
8/6/04, 02:01 PM
#93
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Originally posted by scottie1113@August 6, 2004, 1:39 PM
I was born in California. Had I been born south of the border, I would have tried my hardest to cross it to the north, legally or illegally. The next time you see people in the fields picking tomatos, take a closer look at them. You aren't going to see any people you know out there. These folks work very hard at jobs most of "us" wouldn't do.
I was born in California. Had I been born south of the border, I would have tried my hardest to cross it to the north, legally or illegally. The next time you see people in the fields picking tomatos, take a closer look at them. You aren't going to see any people you know out there. These folks work very hard at jobs most of "us" wouldn't do.
About the border, I have to disagree with you. The idea that "Americans dont want those jobs" is not really true.
Do you think Americans would take those jobs if the companies had to hire people legally? Even at minimum wage you would find Americans taking those jobs.
We should crack down on these "businesses" that are hiring illegals and profiting off of there hard work by an INSANE degree.
We need to lock down the border and make it so that the people that want to come here legally, and dont mean us any harm can do so.
I dont know what you do for a living, but lets try use this as an example:
Your job making $40,000 a year is suddenly taken by an illegal immigrant making $5,000 a year.
You are told that this is a job you and other americans no longer "want".
Is this true? :notnice:
8/6/04, 06:40 PM
#94
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This has gotten absurd now, and I should have realized that starting a political debate on a performance car website would be a mistake. Not because of the subject (I have great discourse with people on WRESTLING sites of all places), but because the vast majority of "car guys" are conservative.
Go back to agreeing with each other on how anything further left than Reactionary is the downfall of Western Civilization, and continue to check back at the site I originally posted to see how your candidate of choice is doing.
8/6/04, 07:09 PM
#95
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Your'e good at posting large fonts, i'll give you that!
This all started out as a simple "lets discuss the merits of the electoral college system" until a soundbite liberal comment was thrown in "GW ROBBED THE ELECTION"
Then all heck broke loose... Look back over the posts, and tell me who got out of hand!
At least we can all agree that the mustang is a great car!!! Common ground people!!!
This all started out as a simple "lets discuss the merits of the electoral college system" until a soundbite liberal comment was thrown in "GW ROBBED THE ELECTION"
Then all heck broke loose... Look back over the posts, and tell me who got out of hand!
At least we can all agree that the mustang is a great car!!! Common ground people!!!
8/6/04, 07:36 PM
#96
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Originally posted by thezeppelin8@August 5, 2004, 12:59 PM
anyways, gore was SUPPOSED TO win the electorate vote. all of the votes that were not even counted in florida that came from urban cities. these votes would have made gore the winner in florida. if they had counted ALL of the votes from florida, gore would be at the helm right now.
BUSH ROBBED THE ELECTION
dont be surprised if something "surprisingly", and "shockingly" happens right before election day this year!!!
anyways, gore was SUPPOSED TO win the electorate vote. all of the votes that were not even counted in florida that came from urban cities. these votes would have made gore the winner in florida. if they had counted ALL of the votes from florida, gore would be at the helm right now.
BUSH ROBBED THE ELECTION
dont be surprised if something "surprisingly", and "shockingly" happens right before election day this year!!!
And this is the reason I hate it when musicians speak out about politics. It separates friends who find common ground elsewhere. Politics and religion are double-edged swords.
8/6/04, 08:05 PM
#97
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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:nono: 
c: 
8/6/04, 09:27 PM
#100
I'm people, and I like.
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Originally posted by vwAirCooled@August 6, 2004, 8:28 PM
No need to apologize! We are all in a great country where we can all disagree! Thats a good thing!
No need to apologize! We are all in a great country where we can all disagree! Thats a good thing!