And to you...

 

Yea, BC, Happy Holidays!!! Btw, I meant NEXT season. And I like Bimmers and Porsches, I just prefer my stangs!!

 

I just thought it was quite ironic, considering your usual tone around here
The lovable pony car wins another hard heart
Hmm... the jury is still out on that....

Same to you BC!

 

 

Uh-oh, it's sounding dangerously like détente.

 

the M3 is a nice car, what do you need to put in a Mustang Gt to beat an M3 2006 down(the new 07 or 08 said to be a new v8??)
Will a good tune and cai do it, or you need a supercharger??
lOVE THE m3'S, BUT THE SHAPE OF THE NEW MUSTANG IS MORE BEAUTIFUL FOR MY TASTE!!!
the M3 is a little more boring to my eyes...
just an opinion.

 

In a straight line a decently driven 'Stang with a tune/CAI, short shifter, and 4.10s would make short work of an M3. If that's all one cares about.

 

I don't even think you'd need the short shifter and the 4:10s, frankly.

 

Twenty additional hp won't slash half a second from the 'Stang's 1/4 ET.

 

....

 

I wasn't thinking of half seconds or 1/4 mile times. From 40 to 80 a stock GT will destroy the I6 M3 - the huge torque advantage of the V8 makes itself felt at that point. And Road & Track has already taken a Mustang GT from 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, which is right smack dab in the middle of the current M3's numbers.

For handling, technology and fit & finish, I'll take the M3.

For power delivery, looks and heritage, I'll take the S197 Mustang GT (with a CAI and good tune).

Overall, I just find that - as nice as the M3 is - it lacks character, soul, heritage...

 

. . . I'd say that M3s have a great heritage, especially concering racing.

 

From a production model standpoint, a more highly tuned AL-block, 4V version of the 4.6 (375hp ought to be easy), six speeds, the still born IRS, bigger tires, big Brembos and better seats. Price it $10K over the GT (as Coletti did with his Cobra of such an upgrade) and thus, $10K under the M3 and Ford would have had a true world-class performance car.

Instead, we got the overweight, over priced GT500, a single focus drag car with an overwhelming motor, an underwhelming suspension and a slightly tarted up GT interior for about $10K too much. Nice car, sure, especially for drag racers, but certainly not world class though.

 

Does the M3's direct lineage stretch back to 1964...?

 

I'm not sure Ford has ever seen itself as a "world class" car manufacturer, but rather an automaker for the common man.

Oh sure, every once in a while they turn out a brilliant vehicle like the GT(40), but that's always more of an "exercise" in potentiality, as opposed to an endorsement for changing course product-wide.

 

No, why? Does 'heritage' mean it's direct lineage has to date back to 1964? I venture to say the M3's 'direct lineage' stretches back to ~1973 with the 3.0csl's and then the 320's. I believe M3's racing career started in 1987, which is still 20 years old.

 

What I mean by "world class" is a car that's best in class, whatever that price class might be, when measured against any other car, anywhere. That especially includes any car for the "average man."

Price-is-no-object boutique cars are certainly fun and interesting, and can serve well as technology leaders, but far more interesting and meaningful, and difficult, is what a manufacturer can do and offer within a price segment.

The Stang tends to excel in particular areas (engine, acceleration, styling) but tends to be average at best in others (suspension, braking, interior finish). The potential is certainly there, agonizingly so, if Ford would just get their act together and step up to the plate. Quite obviously, they haven't been lately, hence their miserable state today.

BMW has a long, rich and deep performance and racing heritage with their M cars being very well and thoroughly engineered high performance pieces, often coming closer to offering true racing-type engineering for the street than just about any other manufacturer. The E46 motor, for example, is not simply a hot rodded 3 series motor but a purpose designed piece that, engineering wise, is a performance buffs drool fest from individual cylinder throttle bodies through the fully machined combustion chamber and out the gorgeous serpentine headers.

 

Well, then using that logic, the Mustang is "world class," because I don't see anything else that competes with it in its price category.

 

Well, being the winner in a one-horse race (V8 RWD sport coupe) is perhaps not too challenging.

The real test will come shortly when the Camaro and Challenger hits the scene and provide much more direct competition. The next GTO may well compete too, though my guess is it will be a touch larger and more luxurious -- a gentleman's performance car -- than the aforementioned pony cars.

And why the Japanese haven't jumped on the pony car band wagon, given parts shelves creaking with all the necessary componentry, is beyond me.

 

Well, of course.

By the time Camaro and Challenger arrive in early to mid '09, the 2010 Stang will only be a few months away - and I'd be very surprised if it isn't fully competitive...particularly given some of the smart things Alan Mulally is saying these days. Expect it to incorporate some of the design language of the Guigario concept.

Some might argue that they have - though the Japanese view "pony cars" somewhat differently; more as sport/GT cars, I think. The Z is more of a sports car, it's true - but the G35 is a pony car of sorts...the forthcoming GT-R is DEFINITELY in the pony car category (though admittedly at a more exotic car price)...and a 2+2 Supra is in the works over at Toyota.