NOW, they got my attention
8/13/05, 03:32 PM
#42
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why not dedicate whole nuclear plants to the creation of electricity that will be stirctly used for H production?
i yearn for a day when being "a muscle car guy" doesnt make me synominous with "polluter"
it seems to me that H is the only way of doign that
also, what do u guys think of my H fuel tank idea? just curious...
theres alot of great ideas for H out there, we just need 2 use em
PS- scottie, being a geezer aint all bad bro
i yearn for a day when being "a muscle car guy" doesnt make me synominous with "polluter"
it seems to me that H is the only way of doign that
also, what do u guys think of my H fuel tank idea? just curious...
theres alot of great ideas for H out there, we just need 2 use em
PS- scottie, being a geezer aint all bad bro
8/15/05, 12:30 AM
#43
Legacy TMS Member
Well, I'm up and kinda bored, and I've read through this topic, and it's a fun thing for me to diatribe about, so here I go!
The main problem is this:
You want gas. Don't you? No. No, I'm sorry, you're wrong, you don't want gasoline. NO. STOP IT. WHAT? Oh, sorry. The reason you're wrong is because it's not want, it's NEED. That's right, you NEED gas. However will you go about your business of the day without it? Walk? Surely I jest.
And there you have it. No incentive for any kind of competition from the gas companies, nor their outlets. You NEED it. Not want it. Therefore, they have all the cards on their side, and they can do what they want, from the OPEC to the corner Shamrock.
Guess what else? NEED is rising. China is becoming a bigger player, you know. But even in our back yards, the population that NEEDs gas is rising everywhere. Those 2.5 kids? They had 2.5 kids. And THEY had 2.5 kids. And you're all living at the same time, needing cars. It's a GREAT day to be in the oil business.
There you go. As to the Hydrogen argument: That's really not the answer. Hydrogen is hard to make, hard to store, hard to transport, and as an energy medium, really really siphons with great negative pressure. So while it's relatively abundant, you can liken it to getting a rock to bleed water. It's not easy. Not impossible, but not easy.
Ethanol, on the other hand, is the way to go. It has a good energy storage potential, doesn't require elaborate storage systems, only requires retuning of carb or injection methods, and a fire proof suit in case of a leak and fire. Well, that last part is in jest, but not by much. I'm sure a fuel cell (not an energy producer, but the storage kind) could solve the whole leaking thing.
Studies have shown that unlike Hydrogen or even Gasoline/Diesel, Ethanol can be made at a 1.34:1 ratio of energy out:energy in. In other words, it can output 34% more energy than is used to produce it, which is very much Sweet. (BTW, production doesn't include the growing from the sun, just the planting, harvesting, processing biomass, bottling, denaturing, etc. ad nausem...)
And, it's only by products of combustion (assuming it's cleanly combusted) are water and carbon dioxide. Which the latter can be a problem, but it's better than monoxide and all kinds of other nasty things, and it's pretty low, apparently.
Wiki for ya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
And for Gas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
And for Alcohol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel
And for Hydrogen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_car
Very interesting stuff. If it's all true. There are debunkers as well as embellishers everywhere.
Having said all that stuff, gas/diesel is still the best portable energy storage medium given the requirements. All others are very problematic in either safety (Alcohols) or storage (Hydrogen), and in all cases, the infrastructure and transportation is a big issue too. Not to mention the production of the stuff.
So, what does all this jazz mean? Well, either stop buying Hummers and Navigators and Tahoes and Durangos and F150s and Silverados and Ram trucks and Corvettes and G350s and Vipers and Town Cars and 300Cs and unfortunately, Mustang GTs so we don't use as much gas so they get the message and get the rates down, OR...
Make the change to Ethanol and I mean yesterday. And somehow solve that whole nasty low flash point invisible burning potential issue thing. And I'm going to tell you, plan B ain't happening because of that.
Really, we have no choice. All of us have to buy a hybrid and DON'T "plug it in," what ever you do. Don't get it modified with extra batteries and a wall socket, as you are doing a disservice to the energy plants and therefore yourself. Anyway, get a hybrid (NOT an EV1 like plug in type car) and use that instead of the Mustang.
The final silliness of that last paragraph is this: You're going to spend how much a month to save $140 per month in gas bills? Right on. Yeah, that makes all the sense in the world, spend thousands to not spend hundreds. Love that marketing spin. Of course, if you are in the market for a new car, THEN it makes sense, right? I guess. Hope you can live with the new battery dumps we'll have to build using, what, more energy and emissions. Oh, and do NOT get in a wreck in one of those things, there's likely to be a real problem getting you out (jaws of life and electrical don't exactly like each other, it seems.)
It ALL siphons. The whole lot of it. I could go on and on and on. And have, apparently. I mean, one problem begats another which produces this problem and...
Well. You can see the big picture problem here. It's not just a light switch issue ya know.
Geez, I sound like a know it all. I don't, really, but Google is my friend.
I mean, I don't, really, know it all.
Er, maybe it's "I don't really know it all."
Um. Yeah. I should go now. G'night.
/I vote Mr. Fusion, by the way. THAT would solve everything.
//What were we talking about?
The main problem is this:
You want gas. Don't you? No. No, I'm sorry, you're wrong, you don't want gasoline. NO. STOP IT. WHAT? Oh, sorry. The reason you're wrong is because it's not want, it's NEED. That's right, you NEED gas. However will you go about your business of the day without it? Walk? Surely I jest.
And there you have it. No incentive for any kind of competition from the gas companies, nor their outlets. You NEED it. Not want it. Therefore, they have all the cards on their side, and they can do what they want, from the OPEC to the corner Shamrock.
Guess what else? NEED is rising. China is becoming a bigger player, you know. But even in our back yards, the population that NEEDs gas is rising everywhere. Those 2.5 kids? They had 2.5 kids. And THEY had 2.5 kids. And you're all living at the same time, needing cars. It's a GREAT day to be in the oil business.
There you go. As to the Hydrogen argument: That's really not the answer. Hydrogen is hard to make, hard to store, hard to transport, and as an energy medium, really really siphons with great negative pressure. So while it's relatively abundant, you can liken it to getting a rock to bleed water. It's not easy. Not impossible, but not easy.
Ethanol, on the other hand, is the way to go. It has a good energy storage potential, doesn't require elaborate storage systems, only requires retuning of carb or injection methods, and a fire proof suit in case of a leak and fire. Well, that last part is in jest, but not by much. I'm sure a fuel cell (not an energy producer, but the storage kind) could solve the whole leaking thing.
Studies have shown that unlike Hydrogen or even Gasoline/Diesel, Ethanol can be made at a 1.34:1 ratio of energy out:energy in. In other words, it can output 34% more energy than is used to produce it, which is very much Sweet. (BTW, production doesn't include the growing from the sun, just the planting, harvesting, processing biomass, bottling, denaturing, etc. ad nausem...)
And, it's only by products of combustion (assuming it's cleanly combusted) are water and carbon dioxide. Which the latter can be a problem, but it's better than monoxide and all kinds of other nasty things, and it's pretty low, apparently.
Wiki for ya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
And for Gas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
And for Alcohol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel
And for Hydrogen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_car
Very interesting stuff. If it's all true. There are debunkers as well as embellishers everywhere.
Having said all that stuff, gas/diesel is still the best portable energy storage medium given the requirements. All others are very problematic in either safety (Alcohols) or storage (Hydrogen), and in all cases, the infrastructure and transportation is a big issue too. Not to mention the production of the stuff.
So, what does all this jazz mean? Well, either stop buying Hummers and Navigators and Tahoes and Durangos and F150s and Silverados and Ram trucks and Corvettes and G350s and Vipers and Town Cars and 300Cs and unfortunately, Mustang GTs so we don't use as much gas so they get the message and get the rates down, OR...
Make the change to Ethanol and I mean yesterday. And somehow solve that whole nasty low flash point invisible burning potential issue thing. And I'm going to tell you, plan B ain't happening because of that.
Really, we have no choice. All of us have to buy a hybrid and DON'T "plug it in," what ever you do. Don't get it modified with extra batteries and a wall socket, as you are doing a disservice to the energy plants and therefore yourself. Anyway, get a hybrid (NOT an EV1 like plug in type car) and use that instead of the Mustang.
The final silliness of that last paragraph is this: You're going to spend how much a month to save $140 per month in gas bills? Right on. Yeah, that makes all the sense in the world, spend thousands to not spend hundreds. Love that marketing spin. Of course, if you are in the market for a new car, THEN it makes sense, right? I guess. Hope you can live with the new battery dumps we'll have to build using, what, more energy and emissions. Oh, and do NOT get in a wreck in one of those things, there's likely to be a real problem getting you out (jaws of life and electrical don't exactly like each other, it seems.)
It ALL siphons. The whole lot of it. I could go on and on and on. And have, apparently. I mean, one problem begats another which produces this problem and...
Well. You can see the big picture problem here. It's not just a light switch issue ya know.
Geez, I sound like a know it all. I don't, really, but Google is my friend.
I mean, I don't, really, know it all.
Er, maybe it's "I don't really know it all."
Um. Yeah. I should go now. G'night.
/I vote Mr. Fusion, by the way. THAT would solve everything.
//What were we talking about?
8/15/05, 09:33 AM
#44
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Storage of hydrogen is a BIG issue (I believe the biggest), but there have been strides taken by scientists in creating more efficient ways of storage
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/15/na...drogen_catflap/
The easiest solution is not always the best
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/15/na...drogen_catflap/
The easiest solution is not always the best
8/15/05, 07:40 PM
#47
My biggest gripe about the current state of gas prices is the fact that speculation is driving the market just as much as supply and demand.
The problem right now, IMO is that there is not enough refining capacity in the world to accomodate the new demand. I believe I read somewhere that there have been no refineries built in the US in a long time (I can't quote the year, but somewhere in the range of 20+ years). For the #1 energy consumer in the world that just seems absurd. There are two issues here keeping refineries from being built, first is the NIMBY crowd, who really wants a refinery in their backyard. Second is the oil companies themselves. If they increased refining capacity, their supply would increase, the profits would go down and they would have paid for the brand new refinery.
Another problem with fuel demand is North American infrastructure. If you live in suburbs you know that you pretty much can't walk anywhere to the store for a pack of gum (at least where I live). Everything is a car drive away and big box retailers are popping up everywhere. Contrast that to europe where in most new developements you can get by without having a car. Try that in any american suburb.
I know this much
-buy a locking gascap
-try and carpool/drive less
-invest in energy compaines (if you can't beat em' join em)
-Do not cancel a vehicle line to rush gas guzzling SUV's into production (i'll bet we'll see Employee discount for everyone return)
The problem right now, IMO is that there is not enough refining capacity in the world to accomodate the new demand. I believe I read somewhere that there have been no refineries built in the US in a long time (I can't quote the year, but somewhere in the range of 20+ years). For the #1 energy consumer in the world that just seems absurd. There are two issues here keeping refineries from being built, first is the NIMBY crowd, who really wants a refinery in their backyard. Second is the oil companies themselves. If they increased refining capacity, their supply would increase, the profits would go down and they would have paid for the brand new refinery.
Another problem with fuel demand is North American infrastructure. If you live in suburbs you know that you pretty much can't walk anywhere to the store for a pack of gum (at least where I live). Everything is a car drive away and big box retailers are popping up everywhere. Contrast that to europe where in most new developements you can get by without having a car. Try that in any american suburb.
I know this much
-buy a locking gascap
-try and carpool/drive less
-invest in energy compaines (if you can't beat em' join em)
-Do not cancel a vehicle line to rush gas guzzling SUV's into production (i'll bet we'll see Employee discount for everyone return)
8/15/05, 08:09 PM
#48
Legacy TMS Member
when I was 16 I went stealin gas from other cars. Plain stoopid. Worst thing was getting a mouthfull and accidently swallowing it. I burped gasoline taste for 2 days. Nothing got it out but time, lol.
8/15/05, 08:11 PM
#49
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Originally posted by htwag@August 12, 2005, 8:07 PM
Since police departments and state patrols must project and budget for gas, I wonder if the price increases will translate to fewer miles - and fewer patrol cars on the road?
Since police departments and state patrols must project and budget for gas, I wonder if the price increases will translate to fewer miles - and fewer patrol cars on the road?
It was in our local paper yesterday that because of the fuel costs the Police are cutting back on patrols here.
8/17/05, 08:03 PM
#50
Originally posted by jwenger@August 12, 2005, 1:10 PM
This Monday I went for groceries and gas was $2.10 I thought I would get some later that day. When I went back it was $2.19 so I thought I'd wait. Next day it was $2.29. I thought the heck with this I'll wait it'll drop. Thursday it went up to $2.39. I thought I never seen it this high around here (Atlanta) in my life. I'll wait it'll go down. Today (Friday) I went by the gas station and it was $2.50 !!!! WTF??
Anyway my car is now set up to burn high test which was $2.70 :scratch: Freakin unbelievable !! Analysts say we have plenty of reserves and they can't understand the escalation. I think we have some mighty greedy leaders :notnice: running this country now. There isn't much we can do I guess. Any of you guys have any ideas ??? How are my Canadian buddies doing?? How are your gas prices for an Imperial gallon?? What do you guys think??They got us so conditioned to these inflated prices that we'll be happy to pay $2.10 again.
This Monday I went for groceries and gas was $2.10 I thought I would get some later that day. When I went back it was $2.19 so I thought I'd wait. Next day it was $2.29. I thought the heck with this I'll wait it'll drop. Thursday it went up to $2.39. I thought I never seen it this high around here (Atlanta) in my life. I'll wait it'll go down. Today (Friday) I went by the gas station and it was $2.50 !!!! WTF??
Anyway my car is now set up to burn high test which was $2.70 :scratch: Freakin unbelievable !! Analysts say we have plenty of reserves and they can't understand the escalation. I think we have some mighty greedy leaders :notnice: running this country now. There isn't much we can do I guess. Any of you guys have any ideas ??? How are my Canadian buddies doing?? How are your gas prices for an Imperial gallon?? What do you guys think??They got us so conditioned to these inflated prices that we'll be happy to pay $2.10 again.Gas today in Edmonton @ 102.9 per litre = over $3.39US/US Gallon for 87 Octane and we make it right here. :scratch:
8/18/05, 08:01 AM
#51
Bullitt Member
Well I know people from other countries like to wave their gas prices in our faces everytime it goes up as to say we aren't paying that much compared to them, but in many places around Los Angeles you can't find 87 for under $3.00 bucks and there's a station in my town where it's $3.49 a gallon for 87.
Besides, comparing gas prices from cuontry to country is apples and oranges anyway, there's so many other factors that go into it.
Besides, comparing gas prices from cuontry to country is apples and oranges anyway, there's so many other factors that go into it.
8/23/05, 01:35 PM
#52
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In Iraq gas costs 5 cents a gallon. Yeah, you heard it right, 5 cents And in Iran, well they are really getting gouged, they pay 38 cents a gallon. But don't despair. Just today our leader has initiated legislation that mandates ALL car makers make higher efficiency cars. Starting in 2008!!!! 
It was said this move would increase the cost of the cars and trucks SUV's etc. to give you a bottom line that would equal that of an cheaper less efficient older car and paying the higher gas prices. So where did it all go?? Nowhere!! They just cancel each other out, but it sounds good.
It was said this move would increase the cost of the cars and trucks SUV's etc. to give you a bottom line that would equal that of an cheaper less efficient older car and paying the higher gas prices. So where did it all go?? Nowhere!! They just cancel each other out, but it sounds good.
8/23/05, 06:56 PM
#53
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Having gas go up because King Faud died is ludricrous.
Yes I said it. The gas skyrocketted within 24h of his death.
"UNCERTAINTY"
Gimme a break. The King had a stroke like 2 decades ago. The situation in the Kindom of Saud is exactly as it was 2 months ago. His son running the show since the 80s, people! Unmarked grave for the old fella and cya. The gougers in the commodities are taking us to the cleaners and might iniate a spiral of inflation.
Anyway, seems gas is coming down a bit here (Ontario, Canada). They are talking about the feds removing the GST (tax) from gas.
Hahaha...removal of a tax. That's a larf.
-Christian
Yes I said it. The gas skyrocketted within 24h of his death.
"UNCERTAINTY"
Gimme a break. The King had a stroke like 2 decades ago. The situation in the Kindom of Saud is exactly as it was 2 months ago. His son running the show since the 80s, people! Unmarked grave for the old fella and cya. The gougers in the commodities are taking us to the cleaners and might iniate a spiral of inflation.
Anyway, seems gas is coming down a bit here (Ontario, Canada). They are talking about the feds removing the GST (tax) from gas.
Hahaha...removal of a tax. That's a larf.
-Christian
8/23/05, 09:26 PM
#54
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Uncertainty is a factor in the price of gas. It'll be interesting to see what effect, if any, Pat Robertson's comments on taking out the head of Venezuela have on the market. They supply 10% of our oil.
8/24/05, 06:22 PM
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I agree. Uncertainty plays a huge role. If Nigeria had a coup we'd be paying $20.00 CDN/L already ($0.03 US/gal?? 
)
But the uncertainty associated with King Faud dying is a total maufacture by oil companies and commodities traders.
Ironically, real sources of gas prices cause almost no spikes. Think of how much oil the Navy/army/airforce/ etc. uses when its mobilized for TWO years. Apparently nothing!! Gas has been very stable since 2003. In fact in the first few months of the war, how many remember when gas was suddenly cheaper than before? I certainly do.
We are just being good ole gouged by these jerks. Recession will be here soon., so drive yo' stang like you stole it.
-Christian
)But the uncertainty associated with King Faud dying is a total maufacture by oil companies and commodities traders.
Ironically, real sources of gas prices cause almost no spikes. Think of how much oil the Navy/army/airforce/ etc. uses when its mobilized for TWO years. Apparently nothing!! Gas has been very stable since 2003. In fact in the first few months of the war, how many remember when gas was suddenly cheaper than before? I certainly do.
We are just being good ole gouged by these jerks. Recession will be here soon., so drive yo' stang like you stole it.
-Christian
8/25/05, 06:55 AM
#56
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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Close to the interstate it runs around $2.59
Murphy gas stations(walmart) its $2.47
It costs me $35 to fill Eleanor up- so I am currently doing $15 at a time.
Murphy gas stations(walmart) its $2.47
It costs me $35 to fill Eleanor up- so I am currently doing $15 at a time.
8/27/05, 02:17 PM
#57
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Originally posted by adrenalin@August 12, 2005, 3:18 PM
One of your Canadian buddies here
Pretty peeved too. Where I live we make fuel. It gets shipped out and then shipped back to the gas station. Prices just went up to $1.06 per litre. So ya, that is $4.11 per US gallon. So you guys think you have it bad, try living here.
One of your Canadian buddies here
Pretty peeved too. Where I live we make fuel. It gets shipped out and then shipped back to the gas station. Prices just went up to $1.06 per litre. So ya, that is $4.11 per US gallon. So you guys think you have it bad, try living here.
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