Zastava_101

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/...swagen_passat/

Moosetang

Are you kidding me?

Zastava_101

I agree - it's a joke.
Passat looks like something that was design for one of poor Eastern European and Asian countries.
Passat has the biggest standard engine in it's class - yet, it's least powerful and it's also least economical.
They have a good diesel, but it's still nowhere as economical as hybrids.

And it comes from a company that's always in the bottom of JD Powers long-term reliability ratings.

rhumb

Passat? A competent, capable car to be sure, sort of becoming for better AND worse the German Camry, but COTY? I don't think so.

MARZ

We've been through this before, I think, but I'm curious as to which hybrids currently offered in a similar package are significantly more efficient than the Passat diesel.

Zastava_101

Toyota Camry - 43 mpg city
Ford Fusion - 41 mpg city
Hyundai Sonata - 35 mpg city

Volkswagen Passat - 30 mpg city

Ethanjbeau

Yeah you can't really beat hybrid city mileage. Even with diesels. Especially now that you can get plug ins with full electric capability for like 20 miles.

MARZ

2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
EPA Estimates - 35 mpg city / 40 mpg highway
Motor Trend REAL-WORLD observed - 27.0 mpg (I get close to this in my 412-horsepower 2011 Mustang GT 5.0L)

2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid
EPA Estimates - 40 mpg city / 38 mpg highway
Motor Trend observed - 36.9 mpg

2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI
EPA Estimates - 30 mpg city / 40 mpg highway
Motor Trend observed - 34.3 mpg

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Just for giggles, let's revisit the Autoblog comparison.

Volkswagen Jetta TDI:
EPA Estimate - 30 mpg city / 42 mpg highway
REAL-WORLD - 43.1 mpg city / 50.3 mpg highway

Honda Civic HYBRID:
EPA Estimate - 44 mpg city / 44 mpg highway
REAL-WORLD - 37.6 mpg city / 50.5 mpg highway

More?

"Although the EPA has come a long way in rehabilitating its reputation as a creditable source of mileage numbers, that newfound respectability could be suffering a hiccup with the all-new, 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. What's the buzz about? Two numbers -- 41 and 36 -- which the government has certified as the midsize Ford's official city and highway ratings. Trouble is, our early observations have the Fusion's overall number floating around 33.5 mpg. Hey, that's an excellent result in our book. Except that it leaves a yawning, 5-mpg disparity betwixt it and the government's combined average of 38.5 mpg."

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...d/viewall.html

Zastava_101

Interesting. I remember when Fusion first came out, AutoBlog took it for a test drive and they were averaging 43 mpg city. Plus, according to Ford, a new Fusion will be on sale next year with 48 mpg city rating.

Speaking of VW diesels, I own one and yes, it's possible to get mid-40s mpg in the city, but you really have to know how to drive in order to achieve that. Basically, you gotta drive it like 90-year-olds drive their Buicks.
If I drive my Fusion the same way I would be averaging high 20s/early 30s mpg city easily.
And diesel cost a lot more than regular gasoline. Here in Wisconsin a gallon of diesel is $4.10 compared to $3.30 for regular gasoline.

Either way, majority of Passats on the streets will be 2.5Ls.

MARZ

Well, to be fair, I was responding to your comment, "They (Volkswagen) have a good diesel, but it's still nowhere as economical as hybrids," which, as I've shown, is WAY off base.

In regards to your assertion that the majority of Passats on the streets will be 2.5L's, you may be right, though, it is more an issue of supply rather than demand. According to ( http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/...-quieter-engi/ )

"...Kwiatkowski said he has heard VW can only make a limited number of diesel Passats in Chattanooga because the German plant where the engine is produced can’t deliver more to the local factory.

“I understand the demand for diesel has taken off so quickly that the plant in Germany can’t produce enough,” he said. Kwiatkowski said he has heard rumblings about building another engine plant to produce the diesel power plants...."

This is IN SPITE of the current higher price for diesel fuel!

Furthermore, according to hybrid cars.com (http://www.hybridcars.com/news/octob...rch-31926.html), VW sold more than 20 times as many diesel (TDI) Touaregs last month (October 2011) than hybrid Touaregs (they actually sold more diesel Touaregs than gas and hybrid Touaregs combined - 387 diesel Touaregs out of 725 total Touaregs sold in October = 53.4%!). MB sold 74 S-class diesels in October (first month on sale here), and only 9 S-class hybrids.

According to a "white paper" written by a previous U.S. Department of Commerce Secretary (Norman Mineta) for the U.S. Coalition for Advanced Diesel Cars (http://www.cleandieseldelivers.com/u...hite_Paper.pdf), the "take rate" from June 2010 to June 2011 for vehicles in which a diesel engine was offered was 39%, while the "take rate" for vehicles in which a hybrid version was offered in addition to the standard gas engine was about 5% (chart on page 13). Again, this is in spite of diesel fuel being more expensive than RUG during that period.

RadioFr33Europe

Isn't the MT CotY just a show award they give to a new design that has very little to do with the vehicle's actual performance?

MARZ

Yes, Motor Trend's coveted "Car of the Year" seems to be a popularity contest, IMO.

Moosetang

I don't think its even that, MT hates the Explorer but that's one popular CUV.

Zastava_101

Motor Trend is one of those magazines that changes their opinions very often.

When the new Taurus, Explorer, Fiesta, Focus ... came out they loved it. And then few months later they started finding finding things that they don't like about each of them (especially on Explorer).

p.s. I saw the new Passat today and it looks so much better in person than on pictures.

bob

If you measure a popularity contest by the size of a manufacturer's advertising account your right.