You're right. And I'm not saying that the whole truck is bad. On a whole its a nice truck and its suits his needs (for now until he gets his new boat which will far exceed his max towing capacity, he's already pushing the limit with the one he has now which is aluminum, the fiberglass one is going to be about 2,000 to 3,000 pounds more), but my point is that the quality is not what is percieved of the Tundra. He bought it expecting it to be of extremely high quality and frankly he is pretty disappointed in the quality of it. Its not a junker or anything but he likes the F-150 a lot better. Personal opinion of his.

 

Hey, this is my first post but I have been lurking on this site for a while. I just have a few things to comment on. I don't mean to start an argument or anything but I think too many of you are placing the blame on the Union when the true problem is the car designs, that goes for Ford too. While I can see how the union can stifle production and add high cost (some unnecessary) they are also the reason most of you buy american cars. If the union did not exist do you actually think GM or Ford would employ so many people from the US? Or the cars would actually have so much domestic content within them? The logical answer is no because it is much cheaper to build outside the US. What if the GM had half of it's employees reside outside the US? What reason would you have to buy their cars if the comparable import offering was superior?

I have only recently started taking a liking to american cars and finally realized they ARE as good as import offerings (plus imports offer very few products with performance) so maybe that's is why I don't understand why everyone is so quick to blame all of GM and Ford problems on things besides the cars they build. Anyways, I sure hope GM and Ford can turn around their financial woes cause I would hate to see what would happen to the American economy if they fail and I don't want to have the option of only being able to drive cars like bland accords and camrys.

 

I have one counterpoint to make: if what you say is true (that it's cheaper to build cars outside of the US), then why do the foreign manufacturers build plants here? AND, if I'm not mistaken, none of the foreign owned plants are unionized.

 

There are two main reasons the Asian manufacterers are building assembly plants in the US. The first reason is to protect them from currency fluctuations affecting their bottom line. Secondly, it is so that the american government is less likely to impose trade sanctions on imported cars, because they are assembling them here and providing jobs.

As for the unions, while they in principle stand for worker's rights their safety, ask anyone who has dealt with non-union and union manufacturing facilities (I know quite a few people who have). They will all tell you that the non-union facility is much more productive and the workers are much more helpful at getting things done. The health and safety laws that governments have enacted protect the worker as well.

 

...and if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Ford have a plant in Mexico (Hermosillo?)? and GM have at least 1 in Canada (St. Therese or something - the one where the F-bodies were built)? I wonder if those employees are unionized?
As for the quality problems being inherent in the car designs - that's a tough call. However, if your butt is on the line for not meeting quality standards - I'll bet you'll see some improvement sooner rather than later.

 

The fusion trio are built in Hermosillo and there are plenty of automotive plants in canada, mainly in Ontario, but yeah, there was the St Therese plant just outside montreal where the F-bodies were built. And yeah, there's such a thing as the CAW, canadian auto workers i'm guessing. They were in the news a lot about a month or two ago, with the big three each making a deal with them about something... i dunno.

 

GM has 3 manufacturing plants in Canada and one Joint Venture. One of the 3 manufacturing plants is shutting down in 2008 while another is losing a shift. The St. Therese plant was shut down in '02 when the F-Bodies were discontinued.

The big 3 are all unionized by the CAW, which seperated from the UAW in the 80's. They have similar issues to the US, with the exception of health care, although the OEM's still pay for dental/eye care, etc.

Mexican plants are not unionized as far as I know. I am pretty sure that they pay much better than the other industries in mexico.

 

You're correct about Hermosillo. It's not unionized.

 

Hmm well while it is possible industries that have unions are less productive than non unionized ones (I actually disagree) still unions do keep jobs here instead of allowing any of the big 3 to send jobs outisde the US (at least in great numbers)

I just think the union needs to give in a little since I don't see why thier workers should be getting paid after they retire, at least not until they die
But my point was unions also help the domestic auto makers
Wish the union I worked for was half as good as theirs

 

We can debate the unions night and day, and it will turn into a slugfest.

While the workers can't be directly blamed for the ills of the companies, the union contracts put a huge financial drain on the compaines. The job bank especially is a huge financial burden.

 

Money. 1968 Corvette's base price was $4500 and you could finance it for under 40 months. Three years later the base price was $5400 - and payments of 48 - 60 months were getting to be 'normal.' The Vietnam war added to the pressure to raise the price of goods - the original oil embargo, etc. Want to make money - design and build a car that grabs people emotionally - the CTS, the STS, The Mustang, the 300 and Charger are just examples of new cars that grab people. And it comes and goes - remember when the PT Cruiser was the hot car?