The discussion regarding line worker salary was a heathy one, but even if you exactly match the salaries of Toyota and Honda, they STILL do not need to worry about people who are out of their companies for 5, 10 and even as long as 20 years. GM, Ford and Chrysler do. If the government wants to really help our big 3, perhaps they should unburden them with THOSE costs. Pay for the retirees healthcare and pensions. This would allow the big 3 to re-negotiate the pay of the UAW and get their car and truck prices lower all in one fell swoop. Current workers depending on seniority may or may NOT get that same pension benefit. All new workers going forward and those not with the big 3 at least say I dunno...10 years get what everyone else gets. 401K, shared healthcare costs etc etc.

I should be in government.

 

Problem with that is WE end up paying for the big 3's promises to their workers. Why should I pay their pension or their healthcare beyond medicare. This is a no win situation. We are screwed either way. Either we as taxpayers get stuck with these pensions and healthcare or they go under making millions unemployed. Banks, Investment firms, credit companies, and soon to be car makers. Where does it end people? No one is gonna bail me out next year when I'll need it. We have to figure something out, but I have yet to see any plausible answers.

 

What GM does need to do is trim down their brands in the US to just Cadillac, Chevrolet and maybe Saturn. Sell off Hummer and Saab. Anything worth keeping in the others can be rebadged, i.e. turn the Ponitac G8 into a Chevrolet. No sense in having eight different brands. Ford should do the same and axe Mercury. Although they should keep the woman around that does the Mercury commercials.

 

Uh, no I didn't, I said in regards to bankruptcy:
My point was that bankruptcy would affect an automaker in a much different way than an airline since they provide two totally different things to the consumer. Domestic automakers already have a perception problem and a bankruptcy would make that perception problem worse.
This article has the same problem that many articles about autoworkers have: they claim that
"...UAW workers earn $75 an hour in wages and benefits--almost triple the earnings of the average private sector worker." I have found though further research that $73/hour is the total cost per worker to the company including retiree costs, not what an autoworker actually makes in salary & benefits, which in truth is only about 3 dollars more per hour than at Toyota's US plants. ($51 at GM vs. $48 at Toyota)

The UAW has already made wage concessions in the last contract renegotiations. New workers are hired on at $28 per hour at GM. Retiree benefits and pensions is the area where they would need to make concessions.
Those great business minds are not taking into consideration GM's existing perception problem coupled with the perception problem of a bankruptcy and the affect this would have on sales.
Ford has been moving for years to change by restructuring, laying off/buying out workers, more emphasis on the car lines, and more recently changing to global platforms, retooling truck plants for small cars, etc. The best thing they did was ousting Nasser.

GM has been trying to revitalize their product lines by providing what "enthusiasts" say they want:
Cadillac has been made into a performance/luxury brand, they provide a high performance RWD V8 sedan (G8), & they brought over a "hot hatch" from Europe with no changes other than emblems and items to meet US standards (Opel/Saturn Astra). Unfortunately, what "enthusiast" say they want and what people really buy is not quite the same.

Chrysler was taken over by Daimler and used until their prospects started sliding and they were dumped like yesterday's garbage. All they got from the "merger of equals" from Daimler (who sacked all existing American management at Chrysler and installed German execs) were old generation Mercedes platforms to build some cars on and some really ugly designs for their bread and butter mid size cars. In Chrysler's case, it's not fair to lay the blame on the current owners/management for the mismanagement of the company by Daimler.


It's funny how I heard on the news that Citigroup just approved for billions of dollars more for their bailout, no questions asked, on top of the billions they already received, while the Big 3 gets verbally abused by congress for just asking for a loan to weather the storm and criticized for the way they traveled to Washington.

 

+1 bud. I've been saying for the past few years, that Ford should just drop Mercury, and make Lincoln a true Cadillac competitor (i.e. push more $$ into the brand to really make it stand out).

Oh, and about the woman in the commercials? That would be Jill Wagner, (see my pic below) and SHE STAYS!!! She is such a sweetheart!! I knew I should have asked her if she wanted to dance that night!

 

Uh... Dance?

If it were me, I'd be feeding her all the alcohol I could find and take advantage of her asap!

 

You didn't even put your hand on her ***?

 

And GM would still honor their warranty and service agreements under Chapter 11. A lot of the public doesn’t understand this. Like I said, people put their lives at risk by flying a bankrupt airline

The article is mainly correct. I can find numerous articles by various sources if you’d like. The 2007 UAW concessions only affect NEW workers. How many new workers has GM hired? The cost “cuts” don’t really help the Big 3 until 2010-2011.

You’d be amazed at what is still in the contract. The fact of the matter is the 2007 concessions didn’t go nearly far enough. Without the union taking huge concessions, a bailout for the auto industry is worthless.


Here is a great article by Jack Welch:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...temp_top+story

Who knows if chapter 11 will work, but the best part of going down that route will be the downfall of the UAW.

The changes that the Big 3 have made are too little too late. All 3 have been poorly run and mismanaged from the top down.

The financial system needs to get shored up first before the Big 3. This is fundamental economics here. Without a stable financial market, giving a loan to the Big 3 is just ‘pissin in the wind”.

 

Yeah, tell me about it, LOL. No, really, I wasn't ready, when the shot was taken. Couldn't complain though, as I was STOKED to meet her.

 

Well Walt, that isn't me!

 

To each his own. Me? I'd hit on her just to say I was dissed by the Mercury girl.

 

Absolutely true. Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to get that. CitiBank had something like 200 million accounts worldwide in more than 100 countries. Start doing the math and you quickly realize that the automakers are peanuts compared to numbers like that.

 

Wouldn't sweat it too much. What are the chances a girl like that is single...

 

Two....Slim and None....



....and Slim just left town

 

Well, she hasn't been singled out by any of the tabloids for dating scumbags, or have her picture shot while out and about with a guy, nor did she have a wedding ring on. Hey, had I asked her, I would have had NOTHING to lose, STUPID ME!! Really though, I was just stoked to hear she was there at the Black Tie Gala for the Philly Auto Show, and that I got to meet her for a few minutes, and got a killer screen saver for my phone!! Call me crazy, but I would take her over pretty much anyone in Hollywood! She doesn't have that "stick up her keister" attitude like most actresses do. Heck, she told me she had $150 left in the bank when she got the Ford gig. A true "girl next door, and thats what I will always like.

 

I disagree. Mercury buyers do not want to buy Ford, no matter how similar it is (same can be said for Buick buyers). If Mercury didn't exist majority of current Mercury buyers would be driving a non-Ford product.

I recently read a book about Edsel and in that book there is a great explanation on why GM has been #1 since 1927. No matter how popular Fords were throughout history, a lot of people wanted to move up and they didn't want a Ford. However, Chevy buyers could've move to Pontiac, Buick, Olds and Cadillac.

 

Just remember, if you remain STOKED for longer than 4 hours, seek immediate medical help to avoid the risk of any long-term injury.

 

No, they'd move to a Lincoln, which is where Lincoln ought to be positioning itself. Mercury is nothing more than rebadged nonsense stuck in an era that doesn't exist anymore. Without a distinct product lineup, Mercury is simply a drain on Ford resources.

'Cept that GM isn't #1 anymore. Toyota is.

 

Yeah, like sudden loss of hearing or blindness.

 

My problem with this is not that banks are receiving a bailout, but that they are receiving more and more money so easily; the banks are getting BILLIONS more than the big three are asking for combined, but the banks aren't being scrutinized nearly as much.

So the banks are using the money to acquire competitors or sitting on the money while they pull back on lines of credit for business and mortgages.