Do you hate Camry's
2/9/07, 07:07 AM
#21
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Notice that everybody you see driving camry's knows absolutely nothing about cars.
They sell because popular opinion says they are good, not because they are anything special.
They sell because popular opinion says they are good, not because they are anything special.
2/9/07, 08:03 AM
#23
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Somehow, just somehow, I don't think that's the Camry's fault.
For better or for worse, that's probably just an indication of how popular the car is. I don't think many people stole Yugos.
In aggragate, Toyota does make very good, high quality cars and deserve a measure of respect for that. Sure, they're not perfect ("My cousin Billy Bob had one that was in the shop every week...") and other makes/cars can be quite reliable too ("My Chevy Vega went 378,000 miles without so much as an oil change..."), but in general, Toyota does make excellent, if pitiably bland, cars.
Not that I'm interested in any of their current wares -- however good they are objectively -- just way too bland for my tastes.
Plus, isn't the camry one of the top stolen cars?
In aggragate, Toyota does make very good, high quality cars and deserve a measure of respect for that. Sure, they're not perfect ("My cousin Billy Bob had one that was in the shop every week...") and other makes/cars can be quite reliable too ("My Chevy Vega went 378,000 miles without so much as an oil change..."), but in general, Toyota does make excellent, if pitiably bland, cars.
Not that I'm interested in any of their current wares -- however good they are objectively -- just way too bland for my tastes.
2/9/07, 08:04 AM
#24
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This is a fact of life! I dont mind Toyota's other cars, and I personally wish that I had a Supra, but other than that, I would just sell any that I got. And no, there is nothing special about them. Im the kind of person that changes something on an car just off the lot, just so that car is different from all the others. My car is unique.
2/9/07, 09:38 AM
#25
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I don't hate them, but to me they represent the "safe choice" and are the automotive symbol of conformity. Don't know what car to buy? Don't care what you drive? Can't think for yourself? Buy a Camry! Everyone will pat you on the back and say what a wise choice you made! Go with the crowd!
It's just not a car that people aspire to own or lust for. It's for people who just want an appliance. It represents the drudgery of everyday life. Does anyone put up posters of Camrys or read "Super Camry" magazine? I thought not.
While it's a fine car for driving the kids to daycare or picking up groceries, the current Camry is rather ugly to me. Here are specific reasons:
It's just not a car that people aspire to own or lust for. It's for people who just want an appliance. It represents the drudgery of everyday life. Does anyone put up posters of Camrys or read "Super Camry" magazine? I thought not.
While it's a fine car for driving the kids to daycare or picking up groceries, the current Camry is rather ugly to me. Here are specific reasons:
- The body looks big and bloated. Toyota tried to counter this by describing the Camry as "Athletic". Ferraris look athletic. Lotus Elises look athletic. Camry? Give me a break...
- The grille design. When I see the front of a new Camry several animals come to mind: manatee, pig, walrus...
- The tailights/trunk design: looks like a ripoff of the Bangle BMWs, which aren't very good looking either.
Plus isn't the car that always pulls in front of you or does something else rude usually a toyota.
2/9/07, 12:44 PM
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2/9/07, 03:45 PM
#31
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2/9/07, 03:51 PM
#32
Heh, thats what I was thinking...
Anyhew, they are no more reliable then any other 'decent' car(I am excluding some fine DCX and GM products). They cost the same as any other used car to keep up on and have the same issues any other older car does in the shop. For every 150k camry we trade in that runs fine, we get one with 80k that needs a ton of work. Highest mileage cars I have seen though have all been Taurus' Many over 200k and a few over 300k(that passed inspection no issues). You see a lot of them due to the amount of sales execs that get them. But personally, I work for a living so I don't have to drive a 150k mile 8 year old beater car. If you can afford a new Camry, when its got 150k and its worth $1800, would you still want to get in it every morning?
Toyota service departments have just as many bays per sales volume as any other dealer, and they are just as packed, with just as many trannys and motors in crates in the corner, cars waiting weeks for parts in rear lot, and the techs hate them just as much as any other maker's products. And many Toyota dealers run 24 hours with 2 or more shifts in the shop..When I joined a Toyota store a few years back I had no idea a shop would be open for 24 hours. Spend enough time back there and its just like the service center at the Ford, Acura and Subaru dealers I worked at.
People for some mysterious reason do seem much more dilligent keeping a Toyota serviced exactly as per the book though will all the full services, American car owners are completely different. You have to take a 'reliable, trouble free, and clean' civc trade with 150k miles with a grain of salt when he owner happilly hands you the pile of service records since day one, with $4000 in total bills...150K miles and this dude is on his 4th set of hoses and belts...
We use this arguement with minivans all the time, when the van is old and roached out after all the spills and crayons and mud-and you used it for its entire normal lifespan(150k-ish)- where the windstar will be worth $200, the remarkable Sienna resale will get you $400.
Anyhew, they are no more reliable then any other 'decent' car(I am excluding some fine DCX and GM products). They cost the same as any other used car to keep up on and have the same issues any other older car does in the shop. For every 150k camry we trade in that runs fine, we get one with 80k that needs a ton of work. Highest mileage cars I have seen though have all been Taurus' Many over 200k and a few over 300k(that passed inspection no issues). You see a lot of them due to the amount of sales execs that get them. But personally, I work for a living so I don't have to drive a 150k mile 8 year old beater car. If you can afford a new Camry, when its got 150k and its worth $1800, would you still want to get in it every morning?
Toyota service departments have just as many bays per sales volume as any other dealer, and they are just as packed, with just as many trannys and motors in crates in the corner, cars waiting weeks for parts in rear lot, and the techs hate them just as much as any other maker's products. And many Toyota dealers run 24 hours with 2 or more shifts in the shop..When I joined a Toyota store a few years back I had no idea a shop would be open for 24 hours. Spend enough time back there and its just like the service center at the Ford, Acura and Subaru dealers I worked at.
People for some mysterious reason do seem much more dilligent keeping a Toyota serviced exactly as per the book though will all the full services, American car owners are completely different. You have to take a 'reliable, trouble free, and clean' civc trade with 150k miles with a grain of salt when he owner happilly hands you the pile of service records since day one, with $4000 in total bills...150K miles and this dude is on his 4th set of hoses and belts...
We use this arguement with minivans all the time, when the van is old and roached out after all the spills and crayons and mud-and you used it for its entire normal lifespan(150k-ish)- where the windstar will be worth $200, the remarkable Sienna resale will get you $400.
2/10/07, 05:50 PM
#35
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LOL! I don't know, there are a few others, but I just dont agree with the point that American drivers dont take care of their cars. I am an American driver. I have a Nissan pickup truck (made in the states), that has 281k on it, Ive changed the oil every 5k miles, and rotated the tires every other oil change. Ive only had to replace the clutch (once), and the master cylinder. Ive also only put 3 sets of Goodyear tires on the truck the entire time. Yeah, who says American drivers cant take care of their cars. People are just too stupid to read their owner's manual.
2/10/07, 11:03 PM
#36
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Open minded or not has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of survival. I live in the United States, I would like to continue living in the United States, buying foreign products does not help this country, sure you say toyota's are made here, but at the end of the line, the profits go back to Japan, not here. When someone buys an American Car, meaning, a car made by a company with it's home base right here in the US. You help the United States as a whole, and our economy.
In 1960, the largest employer in the United States was General Motors, the average wage of a General Motor's employee in 1960, adjusted for inflation now, would be $30.00 an hour. The largest employeer in the US now, is Wal-Mart, and the average wage of a Wal-Mart employee, is below $10.00 an hour. What does this proove? That instead of manufacturing our own goods, instead of buying our own products, and supporting the home team, we have gone from developing our own materials, to selling foreign goods from other countries, this accomplishes nothing, and if we do not start making and buying our own products instead of importing junk from everywhere else, there will be nothing left.
In 1960, the largest employer in the United States was General Motors, the average wage of a General Motor's employee in 1960, adjusted for inflation now, would be $30.00 an hour. The largest employeer in the US now, is Wal-Mart, and the average wage of a Wal-Mart employee, is below $10.00 an hour. What does this proove? That instead of manufacturing our own goods, instead of buying our own products, and supporting the home team, we have gone from developing our own materials, to selling foreign goods from other countries, this accomplishes nothing, and if we do not start making and buying our own products instead of importing junk from everywhere else, there will be nothing left.
2/10/07, 11:07 PM
#37
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2/10/07, 11:17 PM
#38
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I'm not saying i agree with outsourcing factories to Mexico, we should pull the factories out of Mexico and Canada, and bring them back to the US. It should also be noted the reason why Ford moved those factories there, was probably due to low sales, and pressure from the Unions to pay the employees their generous salaries. Having the government pay for foreign auto makers like Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai to start plants here, should be directed at helping domestic auto makers start up plants here, instead of being more than generous to give it to the companies who's goal is to eliminate US companies.
If i was born and raised in Japan, if i lived there, and wanted to see it continue, i would buy a Japanese car, i would buy Japanese everything. If i was German, born and raised, living there, I would buy a German car, and everything else from Germany that i could buy.
I am an American, and i will buy, and continue to support American products of all types, cars, electronics, tools, furniture, clothing, anything i can find. Granted we do not make as much as we used to, which is also something that should change. But given the opportunity to buy a product from an American company, rather than a foreign company, i will jump at the chance.
If i was born and raised in Japan, if i lived there, and wanted to see it continue, i would buy a Japanese car, i would buy Japanese everything. If i was German, born and raised, living there, I would buy a German car, and everything else from Germany that i could buy.
I am an American, and i will buy, and continue to support American products of all types, cars, electronics, tools, furniture, clothing, anything i can find. Granted we do not make as much as we used to, which is also something that should change. But given the opportunity to buy a product from an American company, rather than a foreign company, i will jump at the chance.
Thank you for your efforts, sir.
2/11/07, 09:57 PM
#40
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Airwolf, I understand where you're coming from. Did you read the thread on the Town Hall meeting and watch the video? Your concerns, and several more were addressed there. It's a good read and the video-45 minutes long-is well worth the time to watch..