Chrysler Development Chief Slags the Mustang
2/10/08, 06:11 AM
#21
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Hah! I bet there are already more Mustangs on the road than they'll sell Challengers. Still, I'm glad to see the US auto companies are still putting out cars like this. The fact that he's jaw jacking means he's hyping it up to try and sell it, like he's worried or something. They should know that if it proves worthy it will sell itself, and to me putting the IRS on a car that heavy and powerful is puzzling.
2/10/08, 10:00 AM
#22
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2/10/08, 01:29 PM
#23
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Why would you be puzzled?
The world's most powerful thoroughbred automobiles all use IRS - the M5 being one such example.
Nobody uses a truck axle in high performance sedans, coupes and/or sports cars anymore.
Oh, wait...except Ford.
The world's most powerful thoroughbred automobiles all use IRS - the M5 being one such example.
Nobody uses a truck axle in high performance sedans, coupes and/or sports cars anymore.
Oh, wait...except Ford.
2/10/08, 11:07 PM
#26
Hey can spout all he likes
The interior is 98% a clone of what's in the Charger (so much for the cool interior stuff we all saw in the concept)
that vaunted Hemi is packed into a giant 4100+ lb frame that looks to be heavier than the Charger SRT8
Lets see how long this iconic car last for them when their CERBERUS task masters just dropped the axe on the VIPER which goes bye-bye when the current model run is up in two years
The interior is 98% a clone of what's in the Charger (so much for the cool interior stuff we all saw in the concept)
that vaunted Hemi is packed into a giant 4100+ lb frame that looks to be heavier than the Charger SRT8
Lets see how long this iconic car last for them when their CERBERUS task masters just dropped the axe on the VIPER which goes bye-bye when the current model run is up in two years
2/11/08, 01:43 AM
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2/11/08, 05:34 AM
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Let's compare apples to apples here, the M5 is an awesome machine, but it's a sport sedan that is built for speed and handling. It's not a throw back muscle car like the challenger. The M5 also sells for over 80K! I'm not saying IRS isn't good, it is, and the Mustang would undoubtedly handle better with it, and probably cost 10K more.
2/11/08, 08:05 AM
#30
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2/11/08, 08:21 AM
#31
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Try about $500 more, as was revealed in that survey Ford sent around last year in which they asked Mustang enthusiasts if they'd be willing to pay an extra $400 for IRS, instead of SRA.
The whole "IRS costs so much more" argument is utterly erroneous; a case of Ford pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. In reality, Ford is pretty much already charging us what a Mustang with IRS would cost, right now, but putting in an SRA instead. They're pocketing the difference, not passing the savings on to buyers.
When an econobox like a Civic can manage IRS at its price point, well... what more is there to say, really?
The whole "IRS costs so much more" argument is utterly erroneous; a case of Ford pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. In reality, Ford is pretty much already charging us what a Mustang with IRS would cost, right now, but putting in an SRA instead. They're pocketing the difference, not passing the savings on to buyers.
When an econobox like a Civic can manage IRS at its price point, well... what more is there to say, really?
2/11/08, 08:58 AM
#32
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Gotta love the trash talk from Dodge, shows they're serious gear heads serious about competing. Really, what else would you expect him to say.
The Challenger really isn't a "throwback" muscle car, i.e., some crude, overpowered straight line only juggernaut, but rather, is a modern, fully capable performance car with muscle (pony) car stylistic cues. Yes, the suspension is certainly better than the throwback (stuck in the past) Stang's buggy axle, and it will undoubtedly give it a much fuller ride/handling envelope than the Mustang's narrower either/or option. One could credibly argue though that the Challenger would need a better suspension to rein in its rather prodigious mass.
As for simple straight line speed, I would imagine the SRT8 splitting the different between the Stang GT and the GT500, but with more features and better handling than either. Dodge will roll out a stick version later in '08 which should make it a few clicks quicker yet, and there are rumors of a bigger, more powerful Hemi in the future.
But Dodge seems to be placing the Challenger as a more broadly capable performance car rather than a narrow-focus staight-line oriented "muscle car" that Ford seems to have done with the Stang. So there is a bit of apples and oranges aspect even to these very similar type vehicles.
The Challenger really isn't a "throwback" muscle car, i.e., some crude, overpowered straight line only juggernaut, but rather, is a modern, fully capable performance car with muscle (pony) car stylistic cues. Yes, the suspension is certainly better than the throwback (stuck in the past) Stang's buggy axle, and it will undoubtedly give it a much fuller ride/handling envelope than the Mustang's narrower either/or option. One could credibly argue though that the Challenger would need a better suspension to rein in its rather prodigious mass.
As for simple straight line speed, I would imagine the SRT8 splitting the different between the Stang GT and the GT500, but with more features and better handling than either. Dodge will roll out a stick version later in '08 which should make it a few clicks quicker yet, and there are rumors of a bigger, more powerful Hemi in the future.
But Dodge seems to be placing the Challenger as a more broadly capable performance car rather than a narrow-focus staight-line oriented "muscle car" that Ford seems to have done with the Stang. So there is a bit of apples and oranges aspect even to these very similar type vehicles.
2/11/08, 02:27 PM
#33
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Try about $500 more, as was revealed in that survey Ford sent around last year in which they asked Mustang enthusiasts if they'd be willing to pay an extra $400 for IRS, instead of SRA.
The whole "IRS costs so much more" argument is utterly erroneous; a case of Ford pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. In reality, Ford is pretty much already charging us what a Mustang with IRS would cost, right now, but putting in an SRA instead. They're pocketing the difference, not passing the savings on to buyers.
When an econobox like a Civic can manage IRS at its price point, well... what more is there to say, really?
The whole "IRS costs so much more" argument is utterly erroneous; a case of Ford pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. In reality, Ford is pretty much already charging us what a Mustang with IRS would cost, right now, but putting in an SRA instead. They're pocketing the difference, not passing the savings on to buyers.
When an econobox like a Civic can manage IRS at its price point, well... what more is there to say, really?
The S197 platform was designed to accommodate IRS. ford should offer it on the mustang as an option. Personally I wouldn't order it, but obviously you and others would.
Which Civic is RWD? Doesn't really matter, I don't want a Civic.
2/11/08, 03:22 PM
#34
As for simple straight line speed, I would imagine the SRT8 splitting the different between the Stang GT and the GT500, but with more features and better handling than either. Dodge will roll out a stick version later in '08 which should make it a few clicks quicker yet, and there are rumors of a bigger, more powerful Hemi in the future.
But Dodge seems to be placing the Challenger as a more broadly capable performance car rather than a narrow-focus staight-line oriented "muscle car" that Ford seems to have done with the Stang. So there is a bit of apples and oranges aspect even to these very similar type vehicles.
But Dodge seems to be placing the Challenger as a more broadly capable performance car rather than a narrow-focus staight-line oriented "muscle car" that Ford seems to have done with the Stang. So there is a bit of apples and oranges aspect even to these very similar type vehicles.
Challenger seems unlikely to trump the GT500 in handling given the vast difference in handling prowess between the GT500 and existing Charger SRT8. Were weight or overall spec substantially different between the two cars I might not be as certain but the reality is that the Challenger smacks of a Charger SRT8 with a bit of a handling upgrade and a slightly shorter wheelbase, because that is largely what bit is despite the 'new' platform. I would love to see the Mustang move to IRS, but it doesn't appear likely to need it to counter this car. The reality is that the Challenger isn't a pony car at all this time around and in many ways it is suffering for it.
2/11/08, 06:53 PM
#35
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I'm quoting from the book "Mustang a New Breed of Pony Car" by Matt DeLorenzo:
Quote: Chris Dorros, a suspension engineer on the Mustang team, says durability, light weight, and low cost were prime objectives in the design of the rear suspension, with an eye on what modifications customers make on their own, whether their interests lie in road racing or drag-strip action.
"Our biggest challenge and biggest success was making this suspension tough yet easy to modify for the enthusiest, and yet not heavy or exspensive for people who just wanted to enjoy the ride" Dorros says. "one of Mustang's greatest strengths is how it appeals to everyone. You can't change that. And we also never forgot that our part was just a piece of the whole car. You have to keep the entire system in mind to make it work."
Hau Thai-Tang, Mustang cheif engineer, reveals that customer input helped settle the decision on the rear suspension. "We talked to alot of Mustang owners when we were developing this program. They are a very passionate group and a lot of them told us-very strongly, that the all-new Mustang had to have a solid rear axle," he says. Unquote
So IRS or not my point is that I'm glad the new Mustang was a completely new design, and not put on another car's platform with another cars interior parts etc.
And best of all (for me at least) they kept it affordable, and true to the heritage. I'm really not trying to argue or even debate on IRS here, Im just saying I like it like it is, and I don't see why the Chrysler dude would have to "slag" the Mustang. I guess the political mud-slinging spirit just got the best of him.
Quote: Chris Dorros, a suspension engineer on the Mustang team, says durability, light weight, and low cost were prime objectives in the design of the rear suspension, with an eye on what modifications customers make on their own, whether their interests lie in road racing or drag-strip action.
"Our biggest challenge and biggest success was making this suspension tough yet easy to modify for the enthusiest, and yet not heavy or exspensive for people who just wanted to enjoy the ride" Dorros says. "one of Mustang's greatest strengths is how it appeals to everyone. You can't change that. And we also never forgot that our part was just a piece of the whole car. You have to keep the entire system in mind to make it work."
Hau Thai-Tang, Mustang cheif engineer, reveals that customer input helped settle the decision on the rear suspension. "We talked to alot of Mustang owners when we were developing this program. They are a very passionate group and a lot of them told us-very strongly, that the all-new Mustang had to have a solid rear axle," he says. Unquote
So IRS or not my point is that I'm glad the new Mustang was a completely new design, and not put on another car's platform with another cars interior parts etc.
And best of all (for me at least) they kept it affordable, and true to the heritage. I'm really not trying to argue or even debate on IRS here, Im just saying I like it like it is, and I don't see why the Chrysler dude would have to "slag" the Mustang. I guess the political mud-slinging spirit just got the best of him.
2/11/08, 10:04 PM
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I'm quoting from the book "Mustang a New Breed of Pony Car" by Matt DeLorenzo:
Quote: Chris Dorros, a suspension engineer on the Mustang team, says durability, light weight, and low cost were prime objectives in the design of the rear suspension, with an eye on what modifications customers make on their own, whether their interests lie in road racing or drag-strip action.
"Our biggest challenge and biggest success was making this suspension tough yet easy to modify for the enthusiest, and yet not heavy or exspensive for people who just wanted to enjoy the ride" Dorros says. "one of Mustang's greatest strengths is how it appeals to everyone. You can't change that. And we also never forgot that our part was just a piece of the whole car. You have to keep the entire system in mind to make it work."
Hau Thai-Tang, Mustang cheif engineer, reveals that customer input helped settle the decision on the rear suspension. "We talked to alot of Mustang owners when we were developing this program. They are a very passionate group and a lot of them told us-very strongly, that the all-new Mustang had to have a solid rear axle," he says. Unquote
So IRS or not my point is that I'm glad the new Mustang was a completely new design, and not put on another car's platform with another cars interior parts etc.
And best of all (for me at least) they kept it affordable, and true to the heritage. I'm really not trying to argue or even debate on IRS here, Im just saying I like it like it is, and I don't see why the Chrysler dude would have to "slag" the Mustang. I guess the political mud-slinging spirit just got the best of him.
Quote: Chris Dorros, a suspension engineer on the Mustang team, says durability, light weight, and low cost were prime objectives in the design of the rear suspension, with an eye on what modifications customers make on their own, whether their interests lie in road racing or drag-strip action.
"Our biggest challenge and biggest success was making this suspension tough yet easy to modify for the enthusiest, and yet not heavy or exspensive for people who just wanted to enjoy the ride" Dorros says. "one of Mustang's greatest strengths is how it appeals to everyone. You can't change that. And we also never forgot that our part was just a piece of the whole car. You have to keep the entire system in mind to make it work."
Hau Thai-Tang, Mustang cheif engineer, reveals that customer input helped settle the decision on the rear suspension. "We talked to alot of Mustang owners when we were developing this program. They are a very passionate group and a lot of them told us-very strongly, that the all-new Mustang had to have a solid rear axle," he says. Unquote
So IRS or not my point is that I'm glad the new Mustang was a completely new design, and not put on another car's platform with another cars interior parts etc.
And best of all (for me at least) they kept it affordable, and true to the heritage. I'm really not trying to argue or even debate on IRS here, Im just saying I like it like it is, and I don't see why the Chrysler dude would have to "slag" the Mustang. I guess the political mud-slinging spirit just got the best of him.
also, at the time, one of the big complaints about the Cobra with IRS was that it should have had a solid axle. As I said previously, an IRS could be offered as an option, but need not be standard equipment.
2/12/08, 07:55 AM
#40
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"Frankly, we'd rather run like a thoroughbred than ride like a pony," Chrysler product development chief Frank Klegon told an audience during the SRT8's roll-out, bragging that the vehicle is the only car in its class with a modern five-link independent rear suspension
""in it's class"...
Since when is a Civic in the same class as the Mustang and Challenger?