Bailout bill fails in the Senate
12/12/08 | 05:29 PM
#21
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
DETROIT AND OUR NATIONAL DEFENSE
Then there's this: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/12/a...-john-mcelroy/
"[Detroit] even reverse engineered a captured German V-1 rocket"
It's a pity that didn't help them years later against BMW...
...but you get the point.
"[Detroit] even reverse engineered a captured German V-1 rocket"
It's a pity that didn't help them years later against BMW...
...but you get the point.
Last edited by Hollywood_North GT; 12/12/08 at 05:31 PM.
12/12/08 | 07:31 PM
#22
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: February 2, 2004
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 670
From: Insane
Bull:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/12/u...e-republicans/
The UAW was/is willing to bring wages down to save the company, but Dick Shelby and Friends demanded that it happen overnight. This was not a negotiation, the Democrats and the Auto industry gave in to everything the Republicans objected to. The money was to come from a green-car development fund instead of TARP or new sources. A "Car Czar" with the power to force GM/Chrysler into Bankruptcy and appointed by the Lame-Duck Administration. And about half the money they asked for. AND they were going to bring wages down. But because they refused to do that last bit instantly, the Republicans voted against cloture.
If you want to paint the above as the evil Union standing in the way, that's your right. To me, it says the Shelby wing of the GOP is completely unwilling to seek compromise or common ground and killed the bill because they wanted to anyway and put up win-win demands. Either they get everything they want and get to be the king-makers, or the manufacturing of goods in the Midwest ends and their states benefit (or see the least damage, anyway).
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/12/u...e-republicans/
The UAW was/is willing to bring wages down to save the company, but Dick Shelby and Friends demanded that it happen overnight. This was not a negotiation, the Democrats and the Auto industry gave in to everything the Republicans objected to. The money was to come from a green-car development fund instead of TARP or new sources. A "Car Czar" with the power to force GM/Chrysler into Bankruptcy and appointed by the Lame-Duck Administration. And about half the money they asked for. AND they were going to bring wages down. But because they refused to do that last bit instantly, the Republicans voted against cloture.
If you want to paint the above as the evil Union standing in the way, that's your right. To me, it says the Shelby wing of the GOP is completely unwilling to seek compromise or common ground and killed the bill because they wanted to anyway and put up win-win demands. Either they get everything they want and get to be the king-makers, or the manufacturing of goods in the Midwest ends and their states benefit (or see the least damage, anyway).
Well... excuse me for saying, but that's stupid. How long is that gonna take, and how are you going to hire new people for a drastically reduced salary?!
No, everyone needs to suck it up "for the good of the mission", because the way they're going, they won't be a PART of the mission... they'll have no jobs.
Oh, I get the why of it... NOOMP: Not Out Of My Paycheck.
The earlier articles explaining how labor isn't the huge cost factor is enlightening... or would be if they'd *said where the other expenses were*. I mean, it goes something like:
Labor - 10%
Other - 90%
Um... ok, so just cut all the 'other' but 50% or so, and we got it? Easy.. it's a line item. :P
Spin Spin Spin... the world is all about Spin.
Sickening.
EVERYONE INVOLVED NEEDS TO GET THEIR HEAD OUTTA THEIR BUTTS, and be part of the TEAM. There's no 'I' in team. There's no 'You' either. There is 'Me', but you gotta work on it.
But all is not lost... looks like President Lame Duck can do whatever the hell he wants and go bail them out and waste our money.
This is oh so very bad. THE MONEY'S GOING TO THE WRONG PLACES.
12/12/08 | 07:39 PM
#23
Team Mustang Source
Joined: September 16, 2005
Posts: 1,706
Likes: 2
From: Yatta-Abba, AL
Quick answer: Early Christmas. Shut down ALL their Plant's till 1st quarter. Layoff EVERYONE, pay the required minimum base to them, and have them ALL file for unemployment benefits that they would be ENTITLED to during this period. Now that should tick off enough people to get something rolling productively to help this situation. That alone, should bottleneck all local government agencies, trying to process the benefits due them, and put a boot up their arsh, to get something really done. Then, when they are forced to reopen, the UAW will have the time it needs to implement what the stupid Politican's think they can demand to happen overnite.
12/13/08 | 02:21 AM
#26
Mach 1 Member
Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 830
Likes: 0
Bull:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/12/u...e-republicans/
The UAW was/is willing to bring wages down to save the company, but Dick Shelby and Friends demanded that it happen overnight. This was not a negotiation, the Democrats and the Auto industry gave in to everything the Republicans objected to. The money was to come from a green-car development fund instead of TARP or new sources. A "Car Czar" with the power to force GM/Chrysler into Bankruptcy and appointed by the Lame-Duck Administration. And about half the money they asked for. AND they were going to bring wages down. But because they refused to do that last bit instantly, the Republicans voted against cloture.
If you want to paint the above as the evil Union standing in the way, that's your right. To me, it says the Shelby wing of the GOP is completely unwilling to seek compromise or common ground and killed the bill because they wanted to anyway and put up win-win demands. Either they get everything they want and get to be the king-makers, or the manufacturing of goods in the Midwest ends and their states benefit (or see the least damage, anyway).
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/12/u...e-republicans/
The UAW was/is willing to bring wages down to save the company, but Dick Shelby and Friends demanded that it happen overnight. This was not a negotiation, the Democrats and the Auto industry gave in to everything the Republicans objected to. The money was to come from a green-car development fund instead of TARP or new sources. A "Car Czar" with the power to force GM/Chrysler into Bankruptcy and appointed by the Lame-Duck Administration. And about half the money they asked for. AND they were going to bring wages down. But because they refused to do that last bit instantly, the Republicans voted against cloture.
If you want to paint the above as the evil Union standing in the way, that's your right. To me, it says the Shelby wing of the GOP is completely unwilling to seek compromise or common ground and killed the bill because they wanted to anyway and put up win-win demands. Either they get everything they want and get to be the king-makers, or the manufacturing of goods in the Midwest ends and their states benefit (or see the least damage, anyway).
Of course the UAW is going to paint the problem as one brought on by the GOP. They are a heavily backed democratic organization. Being a union member in a government agency I was **** near going to file a hatch act lawsuit for all the **** political garbage I got in the mail my **** self so excuse me if I call BS on anything they have in print anywhere. While I agree all sides of the coin are being bullheaded the concessions "offered" by the union is a stall tactic to hold out until Obama and a stronger democratic congress can get in office and bail out the big 3 while keeping pretty much everything they wanted in the first place. Notice congress has had more hoops to jump through for management etc yet set none for the biggest financial drain of the big 3?
Agree to some terms offered by current lawmakers with nothing reversible until one they know they can work with gets into office probably, holds just about as much truth. Strike after strike after strike they are good at making concessions alright they have proven it time after time. Nothing new here. I'm in a union. We do not and will not strike
The democrats knew they couldn't budge the republicans so they call for cloture to try to force a vote. That is doing everything you can to ensure the bill gets passed, state your case and concessions hear the other sides say the discussion is over and vote on it? Cloture is not a vote on passage of a bill BTW.
Last edited by Slims00ls1z28; 12/13/08 at 02:24 AM.
12/13/08 | 02:29 AM
#27
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.
Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"
"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.
"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"
"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"
"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.
"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.
"I could not help myself. It is my nature."
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.
Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"
"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.
"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"
"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"
"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.
"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.
"I could not help myself. It is my nature."
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.
that's what's gonna happen.
12/14/08 | 01:29 AM
#29
Mach 1 Member
Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 830
Likes: 0
Hmm keeping eyes peeled at Canada. Hearing rumors of aid to be injected from Canadian government and Ontario province to their auto sector.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog..._the_big_3.asp
According to some of the oshwa workers this is supposed to be official and going to happen for the canadian auto sector. Zeta happens to be an oshwa plant too
. A drop in the bucket but a start none the less.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog..._the_big_3.asp
According to some of the oshwa workers this is supposed to be official and going to happen for the canadian auto sector. Zeta happens to be an oshwa plant too
. A drop in the bucket but a start none the less.
Last edited by Slims00ls1z28; 12/14/08 at 02:28 AM.
12/14/08 | 08:40 PM
#30
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 5,201
Likes: 17
From: Bristol, TN
Bull:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/12/u...e-republicans/
The UAW was/is willing to bring wages down to save the company, but Dick Shelby and Friends demanded that it happen overnight. This was not a negotiation, the Democrats and the Auto industry gave in to everything the Republicans objected to. The money was to come from a green-car development fund instead of TARP or new sources. A "Car Czar" with the power to force GM/Chrysler into Bankruptcy and appointed by the Lame-Duck Administration. And about half the money they asked for. AND they were going to bring wages down. But because they refused to do that last bit instantly, the Republicans voted against cloture.
If you want to paint the above as the evil Union standing in the way, that's your right. To me, it says the Shelby wing of the GOP is completely unwilling to seek compromise or common ground and killed the bill because they wanted to anyway and put up win-win demands. Either they get everything they want and get to be the king-makers, or the manufacturing of goods in the Midwest ends and their states benefit (or see the least damage, anyway).
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/12/u...e-republicans/
The UAW was/is willing to bring wages down to save the company, but Dick Shelby and Friends demanded that it happen overnight. This was not a negotiation, the Democrats and the Auto industry gave in to everything the Republicans objected to. The money was to come from a green-car development fund instead of TARP or new sources. A "Car Czar" with the power to force GM/Chrysler into Bankruptcy and appointed by the Lame-Duck Administration. And about half the money they asked for. AND they were going to bring wages down. But because they refused to do that last bit instantly, the Republicans voted against cloture.
If you want to paint the above as the evil Union standing in the way, that's your right. To me, it says the Shelby wing of the GOP is completely unwilling to seek compromise or common ground and killed the bill because they wanted to anyway and put up win-win demands. Either they get everything they want and get to be the king-makers, or the manufacturing of goods in the Midwest ends and their states benefit (or see the least damage, anyway).
http://www.uaw.org/auto/pdf/111708karmanosletter.pdf
12/15/08 | 02:51 AM
#31
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Hmm keeping eyes peeled at Canada. Hearing rumors of aid to be injected from Canadian government and Ontario province to their auto sector.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog..._the_big_3.asp
According to some of the oshwa workers this is supposed to be official and going to happen for the canadian auto sector. Zeta happens to be an oshwa plant too. A drop in the bucket but a start none the less.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog..._the_big_3.asp
According to some of the oshwa workers this is supposed to be official and going to happen for the canadian auto sector. Zeta happens to be an oshwa plant too
. A drop in the bucket but a start none the less.
...to the rescue!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
unnoticedtrails
Repair and Service Help
30
7/17/17 11:10 AM