You won't believe this...
5/7/05, 03:37 PM
#41
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Originally posted by Budette@May 7, 2005, 9:03 AM
... it's no wonder FORD is having problems. ...
... it's no wonder FORD is having problems. ...
Two: The reason Ford is having trouble is because of CRAPPY manufacturing methods and decisions. Example: The gas tank TSB came out 2 weeks before my car was built. Four weeks AFTER my car was built, the actually started using the new tank on the assembly line.
Good Lord people! Just in time manufacturing has been the gold standard for mass production for what? 20 years now? And the new assembly plant Ford uses to build our babies is still running around with 6+ weeks of inventory for gas tanks????
Thats why Ford (and GM) is having trouble.
On Topic: Yes, the dealer in the example was being greedy. Very greedy. I got my Gt on D plan (about $1200 BELOW invoice). The regional rep told the sales manager (back in the middle of March) that my car was only the SECOND 05 stang sold on D plan in his entire region (which includes Colorado). Only the seond one. It was the first GT on D plan. And this same dealership also sold the first D plan stang as well: a V-6 to their security guard. All those other dealerships in the region have been selling the cars for 4 months, but only 2 D plan sales??? Who's greedy?
And about customer loyalty, it DOES still work. My brother bought a car from my salesman (Frank) about 8 years ago. My sister bought a car from Frank about 7 years ago. My brother in law bought a pickup from Frank about 6 years ago. My dad bought a pickup from Frank about 3 years ago. And when I decided I wanted a Mustang, I called Frank. There was never any question if D plan would be excepted on my order (order being the ONLY condition and I was going to order to get the options just like I wanted them anyway!).
5/7/05, 04:18 PM
#42
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/the preceeding is fictional, but is probably happening in real life ™.
//Are the dealers really greedy folks? Methinks the pot is calling kettle some names...
///yep, I'm officially tired of the whole greedy dealer thing. And NO, I am not a dealer or salesperson. I just work on their computers.
[/quote]
I can’t believe all the time people wasted in replying to this.
At the end of his post he states this is Fictional and that he is not even a dealer. Everybody got so ramped up about this. The bottom line is there are people that are willing to spend the mark up and those of us that are not. I myself am not. A close friend of mine is a GM at a local ford dealership and he flat out told me there is no way we could do the x plan we are only getting (X) amount of cars and we can get the full MSRP plus mark up you should look else where. I wasn’t mad they gotta make money too when they can. I mean really who is buying a Focus etc right now. He did tell me however where I could look and who I would have the best chance of getting the x plan through. Don’t know if there is anyone here that has ever sold cars it’s feast or famine and most times famine. For the sales agents they are just the grunts the ones that make the money are the GM’s and finance guys. They are the ones to watch out for. If your agent walks out and brings back another person then watch out because they are the one that are looking to screw you. One term that is used is Chop the top and pack the back. Which means we may mark a few dollars off the price but will make it up huge in the back end which is where the GM and Finance guy makes all the money. Any way just my two cents.
//Are the dealers really greedy folks? Methinks the pot is calling kettle some names...
///yep, I'm officially tired of the whole greedy dealer thing. And NO, I am not a dealer or salesperson. I just work on their computers.
[/quote]
I can’t believe all the time people wasted in replying to this.
At the end of his post he states this is Fictional and that he is not even a dealer. Everybody got so ramped up about this. The bottom line is there are people that are willing to spend the mark up and those of us that are not. I myself am not. A close friend of mine is a GM at a local ford dealership and he flat out told me there is no way we could do the x plan we are only getting (X) amount of cars and we can get the full MSRP plus mark up you should look else where. I wasn’t mad they gotta make money too when they can. I mean really who is buying a Focus etc right now. He did tell me however where I could look and who I would have the best chance of getting the x plan through. Don’t know if there is anyone here that has ever sold cars it’s feast or famine and most times famine. For the sales agents they are just the grunts the ones that make the money are the GM’s and finance guys. They are the ones to watch out for. If your agent walks out and brings back another person then watch out because they are the one that are looking to screw you. One term that is used is Chop the top and pack the back. Which means we may mark a few dollars off the price but will make it up huge in the back end which is where the GM and Finance guy makes all the money. Any way just my two cents.
5/7/05, 04:29 PM
#43
Well said Steve!
I don't agree with selling over MSRP but in most cases today there is ZERO customer loyalty. If its $10 cheaper down the street that is where the sale is. Personally, if I know a dealer sells at over MSRP I stay away because I know he is only looking out for himself and that attitude will probably transfer into parts and service as well.
I don't agree with selling over MSRP but in most cases today there is ZERO customer loyalty. If its $10 cheaper down the street that is where the sale is. Personally, if I know a dealer sells at over MSRP I stay away because I know he is only looking out for himself and that attitude will probably transfer into parts and service as well.
5/7/05, 04:56 PM
#44
I Have No Life
The camparison is crap....its not the shoe is on the other foot.
The salesman doesn't lose money if he sells it on Xplan, he just may not gain as much. its not coming out of his pocket...
Bottom line...
Would you rather have 100 dollars than none? even if you want 200
Those greedy dealers would rather risk having the car sit there than give it up for the xplan price, rather than save it for a sucker.....
In which case it might cost more in the end for them, than letting it go at XPlan in the first place.
its a crap shoot.
but back to the comparison, the argument holds no water
My loyalty comes down to someone who will sell it to me without the BS.
When it comes down to it, its JUST a car....I can always go somewhere else.
Some dealers think they are the ONLY ones....wake up and smell the toast.
there are a handful of dealerships i would vouche for
The salesman doesn't lose money if he sells it on Xplan, he just may not gain as much. its not coming out of his pocket...
Bottom line...
Would you rather have 100 dollars than none? even if you want 200
Those greedy dealers would rather risk having the car sit there than give it up for the xplan price, rather than save it for a sucker.....
In which case it might cost more in the end for them, than letting it go at XPlan in the first place.
its a crap shoot.
but back to the comparison, the argument holds no water
My loyalty comes down to someone who will sell it to me without the BS.
When it comes down to it, its JUST a car....I can always go somewhere else.
Some dealers think they are the ONLY ones....wake up and smell the toast.
there are a handful of dealerships i would vouche for
5/7/05, 05:02 PM
#45
Boomer,
I wouldn't say I am greedy, I would say I am cheap.
Just as much as any saleman is working for a living, so are we, the buyers, and there is nothing wrong with trying to get the most out of your money.
I shopped around and got a fantastic deal, I didn't hold a gun to my salesman's head, I just asked for the best price and got it.
I wouldn't say I am greedy, I would say I am cheap.
Just as much as any saleman is working for a living, so are we, the buyers, and there is nothing wrong with trying to get the most out of your money.
I shopped around and got a fantastic deal, I didn't hold a gun to my salesman's head, I just asked for the best price and got it.
5/7/05, 05:26 PM
#46
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Dealers are going the way of the dodo. With more and more people using the internet and sites like Edmunds to get EXACT invoice prices with their selected options, the only way an increasingly informed public is going to buy cars in the future is direct from the manufacturer. Which is why you are seeng experiments like forddirect. Now that I have access to information, I'll never pay more than $200 above invoice for any car, and I haven't in 5 years, and I've purchased all new cars. The 05 GT I got is on A/Z plan so I paid below invoice.
5/7/05, 05:32 PM
#47
You are a greedy salesman
Your dealer is a greedy dealer.
You had to do absolutly nothing but take the order. There was NO sales effort involved, you deserve nothing more than what X plan pays.
How in the world can you justify charging over MSRP?
Keep it up, someday you greedy dealers will finally succeed in putting Ford out of business and then you can go work at MacDonalds and try charging your customers over MSRP for Big Macs. :notnice:
Your dealer is a greedy dealer.
You had to do absolutly nothing but take the order. There was NO sales effort involved, you deserve nothing more than what X plan pays.
How in the world can you justify charging over MSRP?
Keep it up, someday you greedy dealers will finally succeed in putting Ford out of business and then you can go work at MacDonalds and try charging your customers over MSRP for Big Macs. :notnice:
5/7/05, 05:37 PM
#48
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(shrugs) Doesn't matter if the account is fiction or nonfiction. What was described in the first post is a situation almost every potential '05 Mustang buyer goes through. My statements and advice still stands, just glad to hear that at least this story didn't really happen.
5/7/05, 06:59 PM
#49
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Originally posted by houtex@May 7, 2005, 2:23 AM
I had this guy come in my dealership, and wanted to order an 05 Mustang GT. Which was fine by me, he looked like a responsible person, and we can get anybody credit. No problem.
We got the options, color, etc, all worked out. It came time to talk about the bottom lines, when he hit me with "Oh, I have an Xplan pin, can I use it?"
Being the up front salesperson I was, I admitted to him that it was unlikely. Our allocation, while not small, was not such that the sales mangers and owner felt they could spare Xplans for the '05 Mustangs.
I started to tell him how V6s could be had for MSRP and the GTs were getting $2k over (which is less than some places, mind) when he cuts me off and says to me "Well, here's the thing. Either you get me the Xplan, or I'll go somewhere else to buy the car."
I asked him real quick if there'd be another car, say a Focus ZX, that he could use the Xplan pin on instead of the Mustang? Because that I could do, no problem. Or maybe an F150?
Nope, it was the Mustang GT or nothing, he says.
Well, at that point, I realized it was futile. We talked briefly a bit more, trying to get him to buy the car here, as that's my job. At the end, I wished him well, of course, on his search for an Xplan for the '05. And of course, I give him my card and ask him to call me when the furor dies down or if, remote as that is, he decides to buy from here with the markup.
But inside I was seething. And I had to face my manager on that. You know, you get that 3 or 4 times a week, the time spent, and it looks like I'm lollygagging. Which is not true. The NERVE of the guy to come in to this dealership, and ask for an Xplan. The car is dang near unobtainable, and he wants an Xplan. I can get Xplan on anything but that car. Greedy buyers. Always trying to bend us over on price. We gotta eat too, ya know.
Well, that's my story. Opinions?
/the preceeding is fictional, but is probably happening in real life ™.
//Are the dealers really greedy folks? Methinks the pot is calling kettle some names...
///yep, I'm officially tired of the whole greedy dealer thing. And NO, I am not a dealer or salesperson. I just work on their computers.
I had this guy come in my dealership, and wanted to order an 05 Mustang GT. Which was fine by me, he looked like a responsible person, and we can get anybody credit. No problem.
We got the options, color, etc, all worked out. It came time to talk about the bottom lines, when he hit me with "Oh, I have an Xplan pin, can I use it?"
Being the up front salesperson I was, I admitted to him that it was unlikely. Our allocation, while not small, was not such that the sales mangers and owner felt they could spare Xplans for the '05 Mustangs.
I started to tell him how V6s could be had for MSRP and the GTs were getting $2k over (which is less than some places, mind) when he cuts me off and says to me "Well, here's the thing. Either you get me the Xplan, or I'll go somewhere else to buy the car."
I asked him real quick if there'd be another car, say a Focus ZX, that he could use the Xplan pin on instead of the Mustang? Because that I could do, no problem. Or maybe an F150?
Nope, it was the Mustang GT or nothing, he says.
Well, at that point, I realized it was futile. We talked briefly a bit more, trying to get him to buy the car here, as that's my job. At the end, I wished him well, of course, on his search for an Xplan for the '05. And of course, I give him my card and ask him to call me when the furor dies down or if, remote as that is, he decides to buy from here with the markup.
But inside I was seething. And I had to face my manager on that. You know, you get that 3 or 4 times a week, the time spent, and it looks like I'm lollygagging. Which is not true. The NERVE of the guy to come in to this dealership, and ask for an Xplan. The car is dang near unobtainable, and he wants an Xplan. I can get Xplan on anything but that car. Greedy buyers. Always trying to bend us over on price. We gotta eat too, ya know.
Well, that's my story. Opinions?
/the preceeding is fictional, but is probably happening in real life ™.
//Are the dealers really greedy folks? Methinks the pot is calling kettle some names...
///yep, I'm officially tired of the whole greedy dealer thing. And NO, I am not a dealer or salesperson. I just work on their computers.
5/7/05, 09:23 PM
#51
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Originally posted by houtex@May 7, 2005, 2:23 AM
I had this guy come in my dealership, and wanted to order an 05 Mustang GT. Which was fine by me, he looked like a responsible person, and we can get anybody credit. No problem.
We got the options, color, etc, all worked out. It came time to talk about the bottom lines, when he hit me with "Oh, I have an Xplan pin, can I use it?"
Being the up front salesperson I was, I admitted to him that it was unlikely. Our allocation, while not small, was not such that the sales mangers and owner felt they could spare Xplans for the '05 Mustangs.
I started to tell him how V6s could be had for MSRP and the GTs were getting $2k over (which is less than some places, mind) when he cuts me off and says to me "Well, here's the thing. Either you get me the Xplan, or I'll go somewhere else to buy the car."
I asked him real quick if there'd be another car, say a Focus ZX, that he could use the Xplan pin on instead of the Mustang? Because that I could do, no problem. Or maybe an F150?
Nope, it was the Mustang GT or nothing, he says.
Well, at that point, I realized it was futile. We talked briefly a bit more, trying to get him to buy the car here, as that's my job. At the end, I wished him well, of course, on his search for an Xplan for the '05. And of course, I give him my card and ask him to call me when the furor dies down or if, remote as that is, he decides to buy from here with the markup.
But inside I was seething. And I had to face my manager on that. You know, you get that 3 or 4 times a week, the time spent, and it looks like I'm lollygagging. Which is not true. The NERVE of the guy to come in to this dealership, and ask for an Xplan. The car is dang near unobtainable, and he wants an Xplan. I can get Xplan on anything but that car. Greedy buyers. Always trying to bend us over on price. We gotta eat too, ya know.
Well, that's my story. Opinions?
/the preceeding is fictional, but is probably happening in real life ™.
//Are the dealers really greedy folks? Methinks the pot is calling kettle some names...
///yep, I'm officially tired of the whole greedy dealer thing. And NO, I am not a dealer or salesperson. I just work on their computers.
I had this guy come in my dealership, and wanted to order an 05 Mustang GT. Which was fine by me, he looked like a responsible person, and we can get anybody credit. No problem.
We got the options, color, etc, all worked out. It came time to talk about the bottom lines, when he hit me with "Oh, I have an Xplan pin, can I use it?"
Being the up front salesperson I was, I admitted to him that it was unlikely. Our allocation, while not small, was not such that the sales mangers and owner felt they could spare Xplans for the '05 Mustangs.
I started to tell him how V6s could be had for MSRP and the GTs were getting $2k over (which is less than some places, mind) when he cuts me off and says to me "Well, here's the thing. Either you get me the Xplan, or I'll go somewhere else to buy the car."
I asked him real quick if there'd be another car, say a Focus ZX, that he could use the Xplan pin on instead of the Mustang? Because that I could do, no problem. Or maybe an F150?
Nope, it was the Mustang GT or nothing, he says.
Well, at that point, I realized it was futile. We talked briefly a bit more, trying to get him to buy the car here, as that's my job. At the end, I wished him well, of course, on his search for an Xplan for the '05. And of course, I give him my card and ask him to call me when the furor dies down or if, remote as that is, he decides to buy from here with the markup.
But inside I was seething. And I had to face my manager on that. You know, you get that 3 or 4 times a week, the time spent, and it looks like I'm lollygagging. Which is not true. The NERVE of the guy to come in to this dealership, and ask for an Xplan. The car is dang near unobtainable, and he wants an Xplan. I can get Xplan on anything but that car. Greedy buyers. Always trying to bend us over on price. We gotta eat too, ya know.
Well, that's my story. Opinions?
/the preceeding is fictional, but is probably happening in real life ™.
//Are the dealers really greedy folks? Methinks the pot is calling kettle some names...
///yep, I'm officially tired of the whole greedy dealer thing. And NO, I am not a dealer or salesperson. I just work on their computers.
I would say you need to learn how to sell - take a course or something (although auto sales are pretty much bottom feeders). You don't let a good customer walk. If a guy has access to X plan why not try to get it? :scratch:
5/9/05, 11:33 PM
#52
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
Originally posted by dtdebuty@May 7, 2005, 2:21 PM
I think your full of crap. What has really happened is that you did not hear what you wished to and you are now changing your story. Nice try though.
I think your full of crap. What has really happened is that you did not hear what you wished to and you are now changing your story. Nice try though.
"Wolf!!!!!!!!!!"
No, wait, my mistake, I meant "wild goose." Or maybe "red herring."
Oh yeah, and seriously, I'm NOT a dealer/salesperson. Of course I need sales lessons. I'm a computer tech. I don't generally sell cars...
5/10/05, 06:44 AM
#53
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Originally posted by ponyboy66@May 7, 2005, 3:03 AM
I have to say that you have lost at least one customer and more than likely many more.
I had this very discussion with my dealer when I picked up my car Thursday night.
I explained to him that some dealerships are not excepting plans on the '05 because the dealer knows that they can get more.
My sales manager said that the owner takes the complete opposite point of view to that.
He says "We're not selling a mustang at ? plan price, we are selling that F-150, or 500 or focus down the road and to the customers neighbors and friends." "It is more important that we have a good reputation in the community than make a few extra bucks on a sale." I asked him if I walked into the dealership today and asked for X-Plan would he take.
He matter-of-factly said "Yes".
My opinion.
You have just lost a lot more dollars in future sales than you would have made on the difference between the plan price and your mark up.
You can say not. But this guy will definatley spread the word about his experience.
That is the cold reality.
Good luck.
I have to say that you have lost at least one customer and more than likely many more.
I had this very discussion with my dealer when I picked up my car Thursday night.
I explained to him that some dealerships are not excepting plans on the '05 because the dealer knows that they can get more.
My sales manager said that the owner takes the complete opposite point of view to that.
He says "We're not selling a mustang at ? plan price, we are selling that F-150, or 500 or focus down the road and to the customers neighbors and friends." "It is more important that we have a good reputation in the community than make a few extra bucks on a sale." I asked him if I walked into the dealership today and asked for X-Plan would he take.
He matter-of-factly said "Yes".
My opinion.
You have just lost a lot more dollars in future sales than you would have made on the difference between the plan price and your mark up.
You can say not. But this guy will definatley spread the word about his experience.
That is the cold reality.
Good luck.
Greedy customers...........are you kidding me? :notnice: Ford and the dealership are still making money on an Xplan sale! The $2000 (on MSRP) on up to whatever they're trying to get over sticker, will pale in comparison to what they could be making in the long run! But its idiot dealerships that think like you that fail to realize this, and that fail to get my business and that of many others!
5/10/05, 06:47 AM
#54
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My local dealership would not accept the X-Plan even after I'd emailed them and got a YES response. So, I cancelled the order for my GT the next day and drove about 50 miles away to another state and bought my white GT that was on the lot. I'd been looking everywhere for the car I wanted, and couldn't find one. I told the sales guy before I bought the GT that if he got right with me on the price and accepted the X-Plan, then I would drive that car off the lot that night. I GOT MY CAR THAT NIGHT!!! Got it for about $30 over invoice. Can't beat that......The local dealership said they wanted to make $2000 on the GT instead of $200. They lost a customer.....ME. 
5/10/05, 07:11 AM
#55
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Originally posted by FourLights@May 7, 2005, 6:08 AM
I get tired of the whole "greedy dealer" thing too, and I am also not a dealer. Hey, it is a free market and if you want to sell a car with a mark-up that is fine with me. I as a customer can decide to buy from you or not, it is nothing personal, just business.
On the other side of the coin, the dealer should not be upset about a customer holding out for x-plan, that is their porogative.
I like to see that this car is so in demand, makes me feel good about my purchase. I know it won't last forever.
I get tired of the whole "greedy dealer" thing too, and I am also not a dealer. Hey, it is a free market and if you want to sell a car with a mark-up that is fine with me. I as a customer can decide to buy from you or not, it is nothing personal, just business.
On the other side of the coin, the dealer should not be upset about a customer holding out for x-plan, that is their porogative.
I like to see that this car is so in demand, makes me feel good about my purchase. I know it won't last forever.
Bottomline, you treat us with respect, you get it back. You don't treat the customer well, he won't come back as well as spread the word about your dealership.
5/10/05, 07:46 AM
#56
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houtex..........great story. Unfortunately it's more non-fiction than fiction. Dealers can do what they want with their cars. Buyers have the choice to either buy or leave. It's rather simple. Does the dealer have to except any plan that Ford may give out to certain people? Is it written in their Ford Dealership Guidelines that they MUST accept all plans that Ford offers? See my point. I always ask for Credit Union pricing (usually $100.00 over Invoice) when purchasing/leasing vehicles. The dealer has only two options...accept the Credit Union offer or turn it down and maybe suggest another offer. People, Ford dealers owe us NOTHING!!!! It's not just Ford....all dealers in some way, shape, or form do this. The Mustang is a hot selling item. I remember when the Dodge Durango came out. It was going for $5k-$10k over msrp. So was the PT Cruisers and Ford Thunderbirds. Now look where these car are in the popularity chart. Rebate after rebate on the Dodges and the Thunderbird will be gone soon. So my suggestion is wait patiently and you'll get your Mustang at the price you can comfortability live with.
5/10/05, 07:49 AM
#57
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darn some people need to pay more attention to what they are reading.....and also loosen up a little.
I can't believe how many negative posts I'm seeing when it clearly stated it was fictitious. Satire people.....
I can't believe how many negative posts I'm seeing when it clearly stated it was fictitious. Satire people.....
5/10/05, 08:23 AM
#58
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Originally posted by Stangfriik@May 10, 2005, 7:52 AM
darn some people need to pay more attention to what they are reading.....and also loosen up a little.
I can't believe how many negative posts I'm seeing when it clearly stated it was fictitious. Satire people.....
darn some people need to pay more attention to what they are reading.....and also loosen up a little.
I can't believe how many negative posts I'm seeing when it clearly stated it was fictitious. Satire people.....
People tend to get a little worked up when it comes to little things.....you know like money, that thing you use to buy food and other essentials in life...Humm go figure
5/10/05, 09:08 AM
#59
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Originally posted by ponyboy66@May 7, 2005, 3:03 AM
I have to say that you have lost at least one customer and more than likely many more.
I had this very discussion with my dealer when I picked up my car Thursday night.
I explained to him that some dealerships are not excepting plans on the '05 because the dealer knows that they can get more.
My sales manager said that the owner takes the complete opposite point of view to that.
He says "We're not selling a mustang at ? plan price, we are selling that F-150, or 500 or focus down the road and to the customers neighbors and friends." "It is more important that we have a good reputation in the community than make a few extra bucks on a sale." I asked him if I walked into the dealership today and asked for X-Plan would he take.
He matter-of-factly said "Yes".
My opinion.
You have just lost a lot more dollars in future sales than you would have made on the difference between the plan price and your mark up.
You can say not. But this guy will definatley spread the word about his experience.
That is the cold reality.
Good luck.
I have to say that you have lost at least one customer and more than likely many more.
I had this very discussion with my dealer when I picked up my car Thursday night.
I explained to him that some dealerships are not excepting plans on the '05 because the dealer knows that they can get more.
My sales manager said that the owner takes the complete opposite point of view to that.
He says "We're not selling a mustang at ? plan price, we are selling that F-150, or 500 or focus down the road and to the customers neighbors and friends." "It is more important that we have a good reputation in the community than make a few extra bucks on a sale." I asked him if I walked into the dealership today and asked for X-Plan would he take.
He matter-of-factly said "Yes".
My opinion.
You have just lost a lot more dollars in future sales than you would have made on the difference between the plan price and your mark up.
You can say not. But this guy will definatley spread the word about his experience.
That is the cold reality.
Good luck.
5/10/05, 11:40 AM
#60
My dealer ordered our GT at $500 over in February, but when we picked up in April he said they couldn't order any more GT's and the remaining allocation/inventory would be sold at MSRP with NO discount so "Don't tell anyone what you paid".
While a few dealers here are gouging at over MSRP the reputable ones are selling at list.
While a few dealers here are gouging at over MSRP the reputable ones are selling at list.