Dr Iven

The Colorado is hideous! *shudders* Sorry for that interjection, but Kevin's post just reminded me of one I saw today...

But, the Canyon actually looks pretty good IMO.

Then, there's the Equinox with its Gold-Sticker Made in China engine. :notnice:

Felix C.

Yes, it is Mustang fan boy type criticism. Same with GM folks towards Fords. Truly immature.

Actually, I do not read car magazines only view the mech/tech/performance stats from reviews and view the photos. The remainder is someone's opinion and styling reviews are subjective. Only person I need to convince regarding a vehicle's appearance is myself. (You know, I seriously believe, that outside of FFMM and their like, the other mags really do not understand the passion of the high performance V8/RWD crowd. Of course, I do not care for European or Asian cars.) Quite a few folks out there prefer the look known as Ricer. In my youth, the Pro Street look was in. Colorful decals and vans were hot in the mid-late 1970s. Remember Hot Rod magazine published an apology(tongue in check) in the mid 1980s for lowering their standards in the previous decades.

I have never seen an inspiring sleeper. I hope we can agree a sleeper is a vehicle with an unprepossessing exterior and with no outward sign of a high performance drivetrain contained within. That is today's GTO.

GTO history 101:

1964 Tempest mid-size fitted with performance 389 from Pontiac full size body style fitted with HD transmission,ltd slip differential, gauge package and badges. Nothing further. No stripes, wings, goofy paint, etc. O.k. two small scoops on the hood as well.

Goofy & garish stuff came later with the LSD/Narcotic based Pop art era in the late 1960s thru earlier 1970s. Of course, then came the disco era cars but that is another story.

2004 GTO. Holden mid-size fitted with high performance LS1 engine from Corvette, fitted with HD transmission, traction control, gauge package, & badges. Nothing further. IRS is due to the Australian heritage.

Dr Iven

Thanks, Professor Felix!

Haha, just kidding. You say the only opinion of the car that matters to you is your own. Nothing wrong with that. But, just because you like it, it doesn't make those who don't like it fan boys. I happen to not be a fan boy. I have never owned a Mustang, nor am I planning on buying a Mustang any time soon. I love the cars, but I am hardly a fan boy. I couldn't care less about how the Mustang looks, on a personal level. I hope it does well, because I am a Ford loyalist. Anything beyond that, though, doesn't really matter to me.

The point is that many people do not care for the styling of the new GTO. Most say something to the point of, "eh, it's alright." Three of my good friends drive or once drove Camaros. All of them say it's a disgrace to the LS1 engine. Again, great engine, great performance, nice interior, so-so styling. If Pontiac, or GM for that matter, had no other vehicle that looked similar to the new GTO, I don't think there'd be much debate. It IS a good-looking car. Boring, but subtly nice.

Felix C.

I have never stated the GTO is other than a boring vehicle visually. Also, I am a big believer in the importance of competition and rivalry. I think it is great Mopar is coming forth with a Charger.
My Fan Boy statement is directed to comments which dismiss/denigrate a vehicle because it is GM(if a Ford fan boy) or a Ford(if a GM one). Etc,etc. It reminds me of BMW owners referring to other Euro carmakers. My God! Is that where we are going!

Any way that was it. My comment was not directed at yourself.

NB: Pontiac really did mess up the marketing for the GTO. I read on the GTO forum that availability was limited where test drives where not allowed or strictly controlled. Gross dealer markups.-as when Miatas, PT cruisers, new VW bugs/beetle,etc were first model year as well. Pushed GTO prices into the $40Ks. Now, with rebate they are around $31K

Dr Iven

No, I knew you weren't really talking about me, but I was just trying to defend some of the others' comments. I just don't think their love for the Mustang has anything to do with their dislike of the GTO.

JB2245

A guy I know has the gto and took me for a ride in it the other night. It has decent acceleration, but nothing to write home about. He is already having engine trouble. Took it to the dealership twice, and they have yet to correct the problem. I squeels like a belt is slipping or something, but it's not a belt and apparently the dealership can't find what the problem is.

Avalanche

If you look at my name and avitar you would see that I have a 2002 Chevy Avalance. I also own a 2004 Chevy TrailBlazer. I have previously owned the following vehicles:

2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix
2000 Honda Civic
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1995 Chevy Camero Z28 vert
1995 Ford Mustang
1995 Dodge Dakota
1987 Ford Turbo Coupe
1977 Ford LTD Brougham
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood
1973 Dodge Dart 340 Sport
1966 Ford Galaxie 500 (2 of them)

5 GM products
4 Ford products
4 Dodge products
1 Honda product

I hardly classify as a"Fan Boy". Truth be told I lean towards GM products as my vehicle ownerships show, HOWEVER I can truely state that GM has turned me off with there offerings lately. Well along comes Ford with(in my opinion) an instant classic. I haven't cared for the Mustang in along time, I do again. Compare a Grand Prix side by side to the "new" GTO, it's the same body.

Felix C.

Too bad you were offended. My post was a bit intemperate only because previous posts on this board reflect Fan Boy-ism instead of appreciating other vehicles.

Fan Boy is more of an immature state of mind when considering automobiles rather than any reflection of past ownership. Afterall, a high performance car is an emotional interest rather than a rational one. (An automobile is essentially a means of transport nothing further) Vehicle forum posters too often write without reflection regarding their posts. (A folder dealing with the IUP option turned into a circus for Herb Tarlek types and their glee to outpost each other in tackiness. Simply Amazing.)


I too have not cared for the 94-04 Mustangs one bit although the drivetrain of the 03/04 Cobra and Mach I is interesting. Same with GM LS1 equipped F-bodies, excellent powerplants inside questionable styling designs. But both are my opinion and hold no credence outside of myself. I would never tell someone their car is boring or fit only for a demolition scene in a Fast & Furious film. I will not comment regarding your rides because none interest me except the 340 Dart. (1970s era 340/360/383 Mopars were the main marque competition back in the day.)


Back to the GTO:
My neighbor has a 2003 Grand Prix GTP. It is a large, longish vehicle. Looks nothing like a GTO. As Iven wrote, GTO is more of a Sunfire design(on steroids).


Back to the topic:

There is insufficient information regarding either car's performance. Have to wait and see.

Boomer

Actually...it does look like a Gp, just not the same proportions.

The grille fogs, are in the same locations and it flows with the same idea.
but squished....(at least from a front perspective)

It wasn't ugly by any means...but it didn't grab my attention at all.
Like I said, if it was black...it would just fit in. Because it was opposite me at a stop light, I had a good 30 seconds to realize what I was looking at.

SullyND

What I think is interesting is that the GTO looks more like the last generation GP Coupe than the current GP, if you ask me the current GP is ahead of the GTO styling-wise, even though it came out almost a year before the GTO did. Sure, they were working with the Monaro, but even the minor cosmetic changes that they made were not up to the level of the GP.

Avalanche

I am a classic car fan. I love most of the muscle cars of late 60's early 70's era. I just hate when car companies try to "reinvent" the classic cars. The LeMans and Nove were nothing more than GM escorts. Crap the LeMans was even made in Korea by Hyundia. Dodge ruined the Charger. Images are for sell, I guess, and that's what some idiot automotive exects. are doing. Selling out the old classics. To me the GTO looks like a dressed up GP. Pontiac has become GM's ugly sister. Why sell 10 vehicles whose front ends all look alike? Have they lost imagination. Everyone is going retro nowdays. Someone at Pontiac says let's bring back the GTO. To save money let's just slap the badge on the GP. Classic styling and updated performance is what sells, don't they realize this. Even the Malibu was a classic in it's own right..
http://www.collectorcarads.com/addet...p?CarID=10152#

Felix C.

Mr. Avalanche,

I agree with you completely regarding the screwing up of name plates. View any large mall's parking lot, when available spaces are full, and the only passenger vehicles which are distinguishable are the high performance cars. (SUVs and trucks are not included) I guess it is a matter of priorities.-my girlfriend would probably note the expensive cars,etc.etc.

Yes, I recall the 2.2L Charger and the Gremlin/Pacer impregnation which became the Lemans. I guess even foreign manufacturers have made the same errors. The RX-7 and Supra were very quick cars in their final models. Same with the 300ZX. Now all gone. Really too bad. The last generation G-body RWD 442, Monte Carlo SS, & even Grand Prix begged for a large 5.7L V8 and HD trans. Regals had the stunning 3.8LTurbo-Intercooler. I considered purchasing a Marauder prior to learning of the 2005 Mustang, only to be dissapointed with the car's performance. Hope you will see why the New Mustang, GTO, Hemi Charger, 300Hemi, etc. are to be viewed in a positive light. These vehicles do have serious horsepower.

Avalanche

Yes they do, but some of the styling needs to be fixed.

Dr Iven

They nearly ruined the Mustang nameplate with the Probe. Good thing that was made its own sports car, and not the Mustang heir.

Avalanche

Yup add that to another mistake, Except enthusiast put a stop to that...Ford would have been doomed.

Dan

I agree. But why not keep the Probe? What a shame IMO.

Avalanche

I agree. But why not keep the Probe? What a shame IMO. [/b][/quote]
Yes the Probe came into it's own.

Dr Iven

Yeah, definitely, the Probe GT was one of my favorite cars growing up, and I always thought it would be my first car. Then I was GIVEN my Ranger, so I accepted it.

Cameron

First post... be gentle.

I have always owned GM branded cars/trucks mostly out of coincidense not brand loyalty, but I have to say the GTO may be a good performance ride, but it really is bland. To take it a step further (and let the flames follow), the GTO has more than one similarity to the current Mustang from an appearence perspective. I don't find either ugly, but both are unspectacular in the sheet metal department.

Avalanche

Are you talking about the 05 Mustangs or the 99-04 Mustang?