why wasnt IRS used?
#41
Originally Posted by kevinb120
I thought they already made IRS kits for the S197
I just get tired of hearing the pissing match about which is better.... IRS or SRA... The bottom line is, there are different strokes for different folks.. and If someone doesn't like the fact that the Mustang doesn't have an IRS, then BUY ANOTHER CAR.
This argument is as cliche as saying 'put up or shut up'.
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New post on Autoblog confirms the production of the new Camaro by early '09. And yes, it will be IRS. Wanna bet that suddenly, Ford does figure out, again, how to make an IRS Stang for less than 5 trillion dollars and that, revelations, it does ride AND handle better than a cheap buggy axle?
Guess in two some years, there will be other pony car option to choose from and the Stang's salad days of competing in a class of one will be gone. Will it be up for the challenge or will Ford have grown fat and complacent by then.
Quite interesting and a boon for us enthusiasts.
Guess in two some years, there will be other pony car option to choose from and the Stang's salad days of competing in a class of one will be gone. Will it be up for the challenge or will Ford have grown fat and complacent by then.
Quite interesting and a boon for us enthusiasts.
#44
Originally Posted by rhumb
New post on Autoblog confirms the production of the new Camaro by early '09. And yes, it will be IRS. Wanna bet that suddenly, Ford does figure out, again, how to make an IRS Stang for less than 5 trillion dollars and that, revelations, it does ride AND handle better than a cheap buggy axle?
Guess in two some years, there will be other pony car option to choose from and the Stang's salad days of competing in a class of one will be gone. Will it be up for the challenge or will Ford have grown fat and complacent by then.
Quite interesting and a boon for us enthusiasts.
Guess in two some years, there will be other pony car option to choose from and the Stang's salad days of competing in a class of one will be gone. Will it be up for the challenge or will Ford have grown fat and complacent by then.
Quite interesting and a boon for us enthusiasts.
Will the forthcoming Challenger have an IRS?
Yes indeed, perhaps the end of the dreaded, stupid SRA is near. Can't come soon enough for me...or Ford. They may very well be out of business by 2009.
#45
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Originally Posted by Bullitt995
Ugh
1. Iron blocks are stronger, why do you think all the new BMW motors are iron blocked?
2. YAY for aluminum/cf driveshafts that snap like twigs at the track!!!!
3. Yes because drag racers TOTALLY prefer the 6 speed to the 5 speed.
4. Ford hasn't built a pushrod since the fox body era. Don't hold your breath for that.
1. Iron blocks are stronger, why do you think all the new BMW motors are iron blocked?
2. YAY for aluminum/cf driveshafts that snap like twigs at the track!!!!
3. Yes because drag racers TOTALLY prefer the 6 speed to the 5 speed.
4. Ford hasn't built a pushrod since the fox body era. Don't hold your breath for that.
1. Yes, iron is stronger - someone should tell Lightning owners not to consider upgrading to a converted Ford GT Al block after blowing up their stock one. The company offering it must be making some mistake. Ford (Racing), Shelby, Dart, World Products, SHM, and others that make Al replacement blocks must be wrong. BTW, not all new BMW's have iron blocks.
2. I first became aware of CF driveshafts used for drag racing applications... Any forum members with Al/CF driveshafts who take their Mustang to the track should go back to the stock one, since their aftermarket one will "snap like twigs."
3. That wasn't mentioned anywhere. Tell me when there is a 4-spd trans. offered for the Mustang available. Like the aftermarket engine block manufacturers, D&D and companies like it are just wasting time and money offering 6-spd conversion kits for the Mustang.
4. You're right, based on Ford's track record one will more likely die of suffocation before that happens. One can only hope/dream that the rumored "Hurricane" OHV engine development will lead to a return to modern pushrod-powered Mustangs in the future.
#46
Originally Posted by hi5.0
Tell me when there is a 4-spd trans. offered for the Mustang available. Like the aftermarket engine block manufacturers, D&D and companies like it are just wasting time and money offering 6-spd conversion kits for the Mustang.
#47
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Originally Posted by burningman
I for one was disappointed about the IRS situation... HTT stated the live axle was there because they listened to the customers. This was a complete white wash. The simple fact is Ford couldn't afford, for whatever reason to make the IRS happen and keep the price point they had. I've driven IRS cobras and I'll tell you given the choice I'll take that half baked IRS over any solid rear axle. Considering they cluged it together to fit a chassis never designed for it and actually got it to work better than the solid axle for which the car was designed is awesome. The car handled smoother it road better. It got up and went like all get out and was over all a very well rounded car. (considering the age of the chasis)
For everyday driving IRS is and always will be better.
If a solid axle was a better option for every day use you can sure as heck bet the germans would be using it considering it's cheaper to make..Heck it's a money making venture....if it was better.
For what the new stang is the solid axle is about as good as it could be. The car would be a mustang with or without a solid axle.
in the end the decision was all about money. Right move for the company..only time will tell.
For everyday driving IRS is and always will be better.
If a solid axle was a better option for every day use you can sure as heck bet the germans would be using it considering it's cheaper to make..Heck it's a money making venture....if it was better.
For what the new stang is the solid axle is about as good as it could be. The car would be a mustang with or without a solid axle.
in the end the decision was all about money. Right move for the company..only time will tell.
IRS is superior. Period. It's why the world's foremost automakers use it almost exclusively...and particularly in sports coupes.
It's why Chevy will use it in the new Camaro, and rest assured, Dodge, too, in the forthcoming Challenger.
It's why Olympic sprinters don't run with their shoelaces tied together.
I could go on and on...
#48
Personaly, I don't care. And 98% of people looking to buy this specific car don't either. Lets face it, it'd be like adding mayonaise to a McDonalds cheese burger. Sure it would be better but would so many more people buy them to cover the added cost? I doubt it. I drive my car to and from work, or for what ever errands I might need to do. I use it for long trips also and have yet to think, even for one instant, "gee sure wish this thing had independant rear suspension!".
Granted I'm no profesional race car driver hoping to compete in my off the counter Mustang, I don't use it only on sundays for drags or auto cross. To me, I understand the concept, people love Mustangs, we're lucky they bothered to improve it in any way, because fact is, people would have still been buying them. Enough to keep it a viable product. For the money, theres not much out there that satisfies quite like a Mustang GT. And if it leaves you wanting for more, theres tons of aftermarket companies vying for your dollars.
Granted I'm no profesional race car driver hoping to compete in my off the counter Mustang, I don't use it only on sundays for drags or auto cross. To me, I understand the concept, people love Mustangs, we're lucky they bothered to improve it in any way, because fact is, people would have still been buying them. Enough to keep it a viable product. For the money, theres not much out there that satisfies quite like a Mustang GT. And if it leaves you wanting for more, theres tons of aftermarket companies vying for your dollars.
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Originally Posted by nynvolt
Lets face it, it'd be like adding mayonaise to a McDonalds cheese burger. Sure it would be better...
#50
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Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
IRS is superior. Period. It's why the world's foremost automakers use it almost exclusively...and particularly in sports coupes.
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
It's why Chevy will use it in the new Camaro, and rest assured, Dodge, too, in the forthcoming Challenger.
Really, if you have not driven the car to test how much it really is impediment, I would strongly urge you to do it.
#51
Originally Posted by Jack Frost
Saw the release about the Camaro having an IRS and thought the exact same thing
Will the forthcoming Challenger have an IRS?
Yes indeed, perhaps the end of the dreaded, stupid SRA is near. Can't come soon enough for me...or Ford. They may very well be out of business by 2009.
Will the forthcoming Challenger have an IRS?
Yes indeed, perhaps the end of the dreaded, stupid SRA is near. Can't come soon enough for me...or Ford. They may very well be out of business by 2009.
#52
Originally Posted by bigaloz
It seems to me that you would like to see Ford go away.
I grew up with my father owning exclusively Fords: Galaxie 500, Cougar XR7, Linconln LS, and currently a Jaguar S-Type R (yeah, yeah...but Jag is still owned by Ford).
Having said that, decisions like going with SRA in the latest Mustang speaks volumes to why the company is in the pickle it is today.
Ford needed this car to reach out to new buyers and reverse it's dwindling market share.
Instead, Ford sold a lot to repeat Mustang buyers (like myself). But the car will fail miserably in it's intended goal of bringing in young people who were then hoped to later by more upscale Fords with bigger profit margins.
Anyway, as mentioned earlier...as soon as the Camaro is in production with an IRS, Ford will counter and finally put IRS on the Mustang. And all those of you delusional enough to believe the SRA on the current Mustangs was a result of 'listening to the wants of customers' will be nothing more than a mild curiosity in the long road of the history of the Mustang.
#53
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Originally Posted by Jack Frost
Instead, Ford sold a lot to repeat Mustang buyers (like myself). But the car will fail miserably in it's intended goal of bringing in young people who were then hoped to later by more upscale Fords with bigger profit margins.
At any rate, competition will force the issue for the next Mustang update.
#54
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Originally Posted by Tony Alonso
I see quite of few younger owners driving the V6 models. I do think the styling of the car has probably won some over.
At any rate, competition will force the issue for the next Mustang update.
At any rate, competition will force the issue for the next Mustang update.
Jack Frost - do you have some actual buyer demographic data to back up your assertion or is this just a theory on your part?
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1. Iron blocks are stronger, why do you think all the new BMW motors are iron blocked?
2. YAY for aluminum/cf driveshafts that snap like twigs at the track!!!!
3. Yes because drag racers TOTALLY prefer the 6 speed to the 5 speed.
4. Ford hasn't built a pushrod since the fox body era. Don't hold your breath for that.
#56
Originally Posted by rhumb
All depends on how well they're engineered. Most 500+hp cars on the market today have AL blocks.
Originally Posted by rhumb
Same as above, appropriate engineering required. CF especially is several times stronger than steel by weight, but requires specific engineering techniques to take full advantage of the immense strength.
Originally Posted by rhumb
Fewer gears can be a benefit in the very narrow confines of drag racing from possibly reducing the need for a shift, and ensuing shift time, before the end of the quarter. But this possible benefit is very specific to the esoteric considerations of drag racing. In the real world, generally more gears the better to suite the broadest range of driving needs and conditions.
Originally Posted by rhumb
Doesn't mean they can't build a decent pushrod or (D)OHC motor. Haven't heard yet whether the Hurricane will be OHV or (D)OHC though either configuration can make a fine big V8 powerplant. Now, given Ford's glacial engine development pace, whether we'll see it in our lifetimes...
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Nissan 350Z/ Infiniti G35 have CF (reinforced) driveshafts.
The main point of this thread was to ask why an IRS wasn't used on the Mustang - the other stuff brought up are tied into the point made about cost-cutting and Ford supposedly listening to what the majority of Mustang owners wanted in regards to the rear suspension. Besides, the 8.8 and the rear suspension isn't exactly bullet-proof perfection from the factory either. I won't try to speak for anyone or everyone who is pro-IRS... I still loved my Mustang despite the SRA and its quirks out in the "real" world of potholes, uneven pavement, etc. and this new one definitely is a step above. IMO, it would've been nice if Ford saw fit to bring the rest of the car into the 21st (heck even 20th) century in terms of suspension design. The pending arrival of the Camaro and Challenger (w/more hp and IRS) will hopefully make Ford reconsider. If not, I'll settle for a Watts link...
The main point of this thread was to ask why an IRS wasn't used on the Mustang - the other stuff brought up are tied into the point made about cost-cutting and Ford supposedly listening to what the majority of Mustang owners wanted in regards to the rear suspension. Besides, the 8.8 and the rear suspension isn't exactly bullet-proof perfection from the factory either. I won't try to speak for anyone or everyone who is pro-IRS... I still loved my Mustang despite the SRA and its quirks out in the "real" world of potholes, uneven pavement, etc. and this new one definitely is a step above. IMO, it would've been nice if Ford saw fit to bring the rest of the car into the 21st (heck even 20th) century in terms of suspension design. The pending arrival of the Camaro and Challenger (w/more hp and IRS) will hopefully make Ford reconsider. If not, I'll settle for a Watts link...
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Originally Posted by Jack Frost
And all those of you delusional enough to believe the SRA on the current Mustangs was a result of 'listening to the wants of customers' will be nothing more than a mild curiosity in the long road of the history of the Mustang.
Of course, you're also right, but that's beside the point.
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Originally Posted by TomServo92
Jack Frost - do you have some actual buyer demographic data to back up your assertion or is this just a theory on your part?
Fortunately, they've managed to package and market the car in such a way that it's possible to overlook some of these shortcomings - that is until you're riding shotgun in your new Stang, with your friend driving, and he takes the corner too hard, and you reach up with your right hand for the "oh sh*t!" handle only to discover it isn't there because Ford was pinching pennies...again.
#60
Legacy TMS Member
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
I think we're practically swimming in "demographic data" regarding Ford's perilous situation right now, so he hardly needs to provide any MORE. But to summarize: It's been too many years of bad planning, bad products and cost-cutting measures - the latter of which Ford engaged in long before the ink ran red. This is a company that is now paying for its greed and short-sightedness, and unfortunately, as great as the new Mustang is, evidence of cost-cutting abounds in the car.
Fortunately, they've managed to package and market the car in such a way that it's possible to overlook some of these shortcomings - that is until you're riding shotgun in your new Stang, with your friend driving, and he takes the corner too hard, and you reach up with your right hand for the "oh sh*t!" handle only to discover it isn't there because Ford was pinching pennies...again.
Fortunately, they've managed to package and market the car in such a way that it's possible to overlook some of these shortcomings - that is until you're riding shotgun in your new Stang, with your friend driving, and he takes the corner too hard, and you reach up with your right hand for the "oh sh*t!" handle only to discover it isn't there because Ford was pinching pennies...again.