Paris MkVI

My bride and I are doing a Skip Barber 2-day high performance driving school at Lime Rock May 19-20. We'll be driving the school cars (I'd rather use up their tires and brakes than mine anyway). But wouldn't it be a blast to take the Mustang around the circuit? Maybe just once. . .

Don't know if they'll let me, but I am going to ask, just for the experience. I wouldn't want to push the envelope hard. I would just want her to have "been there"!

It's a bummer the insurance companies won't give you a thing for the investment inthe school unless you're over 55, though.

Posts and photos will be coming after the vacation. Assuming no (server) crashes, I'll re-enter on this thread.

dustindu4

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Paris MkVI @ May 3, 2006, 12:51 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Assuming no (server) crashes, I'll re-enter on this thread.
[/b][/quote]

It'll happen, don't worry! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img]

Bob99b5

When I went to Bondurant in Phoenix in 2004, they did allow you to drive your car on the track but only after they did a thorough checkout of the car. There was a guy there from San Francisco who came up in an '01 Bullit but the brakes didn't pass the Bondurant inspection. They offered to do a brake job on the spot for him, but he declined. Another student did go out with his 2004 Infiniti G35 coupe which he drove up in from Los Angeles. I didn't see it happen, but he supposedly spun it out in the dirt and filled the interior of his new 1,200 mile car with sand and dirt.

I on the other hand flew in to Sky Harbor airport and was "upgraded" by the rental car clerk to a beautiful Chrysler minivan. Here I am "speeding" out to the track! Please don't tell any of my friends that I drove a minivan to Bondurant!

Paris MkVI

What a hoot, Bob!

Our Mustang has about 9000 miles on it right now, so it should pass an inspection. If not, that's OK too - not the end of the world.

I won't be reaching for the ragged edge of the envelope if I get the chance (it IS a street car, after all), so I should be able to avoid any undesireable "incidents". [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]

SonicStanGirl

Paris MkVI - I am sooo jealous! I have a friend who did the Skip Barber school and is now a very accomplished SCCA driver. I'd love to do the high performance driving school. I did the Frank Hawley Drag School a couple of years ago and got to drive a SuperComp Dragster. That was awesome.


Beware of taking your stang on the track if you have stock brakes. My friend (the SCCA guy) rented some stangs and took them on the track a couple of months ago and literally melted the pads off. I'm sure he would be more agressive than you might be on the brakes, being a race driver and all, but our brakes in stock condition just won't cut it on the track.

I have read other posts from people who have toasted their stock brakes on the track too.

Bob99b5

The other thing to remember is that your insurance company won't pay if you wreck the car on the track. At Bondurant, the optional insurance was $75 per day - that covered any damage that I might do to their Corvette but the deductible was a shocking $6,000. Go figure, you pay $75 per day for insurance and you still owe them $6K if you total the car!

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob99b5 @ May 3, 2006, 9:37 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
When I went to Bondurant in Phoenix in 2004, they did allow you to drive your car on the track but only after they did a thorough checkout of the car. There was a guy there from San Francisco who came up in an '01 Bullit but the brakes didn't pass the Bondurant inspection. They offered to do a brake job on the spot for him, but he declined. Another student did go out with his 2004 Infiniti G35 coupe which he drove up in from Los Angeles. I didn't see it happen, but he supposedly spun it out in the dirt and filled the interior of his new 1,200 mile car with sand and dirt.

I on the other hand flew in to Sky Harbor airport and was "upgraded" by the rental car clerk to a beautiful Chrysler minivan. Here I am "speeding" out to the track! Please don't tell any of my friends that I drove a minivan to Bondurant!
[/b][/quote]

Who was your instructor there? My friend was an instructor at Bondurant until a few months ago.

Bob99b5

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ May 4, 2006, 11:56 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Who was your instructor there? My friend was an instructor at Bondurant until a few months ago.
[/b][/quote]

I had Kevin Krauss and he was fabulous. I had a camcorder mounted on the roll bar in the car and I have two hours of video, much of it with Kevin encouraging me to drive harder and faster. At one point on the tape, he's telling me that I keep lifting off the thorttle in a certain section of the track. I complain that I'm afraid I'm already going to fast and he says, "Believe me, this car can take it." I do it, it works [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] , then he gets in the driver's seat and shows me how it's really done!

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob99b5 @ May 5, 2006, 9:20 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I had Kevin Krauss and he was fabulous. I had a camcorder mounted on the roll bar in the car and I have two hours of video, much of it with Kevin encouraging me to drive harder and faster. At one point on the tape, he's telling me that I keep lifting off the thorttle in a certain section of the track. I complain that I'm afraid I'm already going to fast and he says, "Believe me, this car can take it." I do it, it works [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] , then he gets in the driver's seat and shows me how it's really done!
[/b][/quote]



It's amazing what the pros can do with the vehicles.

Bob99b5

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ May 6, 2006, 9:47 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Patrick Sallaway is the instructor I know. I took the shifter kart course at Bondurant and it was a ton of fun. I have a decent amount of track experience, but still want to do the 4 day GP course at Bondurant.

It's amazing what the pros can do with the vehicles. Patrick took me for a bunch of rides last time and he was having a technical conversation with me while drifting the Cobra Vic around the track.
[/b][/quote]

I did three days of the four day grand prix course. The last day was in open wheel cart cars but I didn't think my back would be able to handle it. The first three days were in Corvettes. I had car number 15 for the entire three days, and the ironic thing about it is that the shirt I bought in the souvenir shop also had car 15 on it!
[attachmentid=48442]

The last day would have been in the open wheel CART cars....
[attachmentid=48444]

They also had a fleet of orange Mustang Cobras but it was a different (shorter) course that didn't interest me as much as the 4 day GP. The Mustangs though are what originally attracted me to Bondurant.
[attachmentid=48443]

I'm sure glad I wasn't paying for the gas becasue my on-track average was 6.4 mpg!!
[attachmentid=48445]

Oh, and one last thing, did I mention that it was HOT??? In case you can't read it well, the temp display reads 110 degrees! And remember, we were all in full racing suits with four point harnesses and helmets. I lost a few pounds that week....
[attachmentid=48446]

Paris MkVI

Hey SonicStanGirl, I have been to Costa Mesa - got friends who live there!

Heard the same thing about the stock brakes. It's a street car, not a racer, so if I get it on the track I will drive with that in mind. For me in that situation, it isn't so much the lap time as it is the experience of doing it!

What's it like to enjoy your pony on the PCH???

Paris MkVI

Three more work days - then we hit the road!

Bob99b5

I figured I'd update this with the attachments since the board went down right after I posted it.

I did three days of the four day grand prix course. The last day was in open wheel cart cars but I didn't think my back would be able to handle it. The first three days were in Corvettes. I had car number 15 for the entire three days, and the ironic thing about it is that the shirt I bought in the souvenir shop also had car 15 on it!
Attachment 518

The last day would have been in the open wheel CART cars....
Attachment 515

They also had a fleet of orange Mustang Cobras but it was a different (shorter) course that didn't interest me as much as the 4 day GP. The Mustangs though are what originally attracted me to Bondurant.
Attachment 517

I'm sure glad I wasn't paying for the gas becasue my on-track average was 6.4 mpg!!
Attachment 516

Oh, and one last thing, did I mention that it was HOT??? In case you can't read it well, the temp display reads 110 degrees! And remember, we were all in full racing suits with four point harnesses and helmets. I lost a few pounds that week....
Attachment 519

Paris MkVI

I can well imagine!

My bride surprised me with the full bra for the Mustang today! I am not always a fan of bras. But I will enjoy the long road trip more knowing the front end is better protected from rocks and things. I think it is a good investment for a road trip like this.

SonicStanGirl

Yep, PCH is a fun highway to run on. Have to be careful around certain beach towns due to cops but the scenery is great!

Hope you have fun on your track day! Keep her away from the wall!

Paris MkVI

Folks, this time tomorrow we'll be well on our way. The roadtrip to Lime Rock
looms before me, and I am getting pretty darned excited!

Paris MkVI

OK, first impressions. . .

OH MAN!! HOLY ****!! Merely awesome does not adequately describe it.

Shot two hours of video (including both of us autocrossing the Mustang and Vipers). I am going to produce about a 15 minute video of the whole thing. But I'll make some shorter chunks for posting here.

Once the longer piece is done, I'll "YouSendIt" to anyone who wants to check it out.

Taking it easy today. More later.

Paris MkVI

OK, more details.

DAY 1 - We broke the class of 17 people into three groups. The groups went to the skidpad, threshold braking exercise, and vehicle dynamics class. We went to the skidpad first, and all classes rotated through all three activities.

Keeping the skidpad wetted down, the instructors worked us around the pad, had us come off the throttle, and would randomly pull the parking brake, sending us into skids. They taught us skid "CPR" - correct, pause, recover.

In the vehicle dynamics class, we discussed loads on the suspension from acceleration, deceleration and cornering. Then we factored in driver input at the throttle, brakes and steering wheel.

They had a great way of demonstrating that with a steering wheel that had a string attached to it, and a loop at the bottom that went around your right foot. With your foot up off the pedals, you can apply 100% steering. As soon as you put your foot down on a pedal, the string tightens and you have to give up some steering. It effectively explained the relationship between them, which came in real handy on the threshold braking, and especially the second day activities.

In the afternoon we did more of these exercises, including an on-track exercise on heel-and-toe-downshifting. I learned why I was having so much trouble with it - I had the last part of the sequence on the pedals wrong. Now I gotta break that habit!

DAY 2 - We split up again, between "brake and turn" maneuvers, skidpad (with turn ins, apex and turnout targets), and class on the autocross, focusing on figuring your line and using the cars' energy to max your speed on the course. We rotated through these in the morning.

In the afternoon we rotated through driving responsibilities and safety (a dynamic lecture on the subject the likes of which most people have never had), the "champagne slalom", emergency lane change, and the autocross.

The champagne slalom had us driving school cars through a course with decreasing radius turns, compromise turns, increasing radius and a chicane, as well as specific gates. On the hood a bowl was attached magnetically, and a tennis ball was attached to the bowl with a string. (OK, so it was a tennis ball slalom.) We worked in driving teams of two, and you had to lap the course as fast as possible without taking out any cones (2 second penalty) or dumping the tennis ball out of the bowl. If you did, you had to stop, unbuckle, get out, put the ball back in, buckle back in, and finish the course. So losing the ball was basically death to your time.

In emergency lane change, your first tossing one lane, then two, into cone boxes separated by about 50 feet, from about 35-37mph. The taught us "toss, recover, brake." Even though instinct tells you to go for the brake, you HAVE TO use 100% steering to make the maneuver, then threshold brake into the second box.

The autocross, was of course, the best. Instructors ride with you, talking you through the line and encouraging you to push the limit harder and harder. You drive like you never thought you possibly could (at least I did!) First this was in the Neons, and then in the Vipers.

The Viper. It listens to everything you tell it, and will do EXACTLY what you tell it to do. You tell it to do good things - it does them REALLY WELL. If you tell it to do bad things - it does those REALLY WELL too. Extraordinary brakes, and very fast steering. Acceleration - well that goes without saying. An incredible car.

Then it was time. We signed the waiver, and ran the course in the Mustang. We had upped the tire presasure to 40PSI that morning, so she was ready. With the instructors taslking us through the line, we both drove her like we stole her. And she did incredible stuff! The Mustang has a MUCH higher handling limit than I imagined. Overall performance was absolutely terrific. Weakest point, as I expected, was the stock brakes. They slowed us just fine and didn't fade through the laps we did. But we worked the ABS hard, and the stock pads would not have put up with that for very long. Steering was good, and acceleration of course was right on the money. It was a short enough course that you simply remained in second gear (in all the cars) and focused on the vehicle dynamics.

It's not cheap. But I cannot recommend the experience strongly enough. Just incredible.