Chef

If we indeed do learn from the past, and can agree that history tends to repeat itself. We should all be able to speculate on this current resurgence with the S197 Mustang as the catalyst for the NEW Muscle car war.

Forget the “hot rod” title given to the import scene a few years back, even right before “The Fast and the Idiotic” hit theaters and pumped up that corner of the market.

Forget the recent influx of steroidal turbo rally cars.

Forget anything less than 8 cylinders for that matter, oh well, we can I’m sure make an exception for the V6 Stang though.

We are in the midst of a muscle car war. You can read about it in many magazines, and if you’ve got one already, you know first hand that it’s just getting started. Similarly to the 64 1/2 introduction of the Mustang, Ford is taking a leap, betting the farm and already had issues filling orders in a timely matter (remember how many Mustangs sold out when it was first introduced in 64-65?)

We are on the cusp of something powerful and great again, and truly American. Many of us missed the first time, and others of us lived through it and will enjoy it once again. But how long will it last?

Will this be fleeting as it was in the 60’s – 70’s when the gas crisis and EPA stomped the life out of the muscle cars of yesteryear? We see how the baby-boomers are such a driving force for their market segment. We also see how the Muscle cars of the late 60’s are still popular and have insane values and resales when you look at something like a Barrett-Jackson Auction. It only makes dollars and sense (excuse the intended pun) for at least the big 3 to get in while the gettins good.

Will this be the last time we see a Muscle Car Revolution? I unfortunately will hypothesize the answer to be yes. How long it lasts is undetermined but with so many things weighing heavy in the auto industry currently, I can’t help but think that this current trend is the American auto makers last ditch effort (and reasonably well at that) or chance to regain a foot hold in today’s turbulent and competitive automotive market.

I’m personally already sold. I’ll be ordering my GT very soon, and I’ll be part of the “family” again. My father was a part of it in the beginning and for several years during the 60’s. It only makes sense for me to take advantage. The car looks handsome as heck, has quite an impressive power/performance package to start with, and for God’s sake it’s a friggen steal. And value seems to be where the “other” companies always just miss the mark.

Sure the Charger starts out in the low $20’s (but it’s a 6) and you could search far and wide for a low priced GTO (but it’s still over $30, and is butt ugly.) And then you’re led to a Euro sedan with uber comfort and performance but at a premium. Or you could go to one of those potent force fed rally cars, they are fast as heck and can perform but again they really are ugly and the price tag is still in the $30’s. And then you're left with alot of bland nothings in between. Ho Hum.

How long will it last this time?

For certain Ford is playing an aggressive hand and at this point owning the market.

But they’ve hooked me for certain.

What do you think?


Anton

mustangspeeder

Well, I'm only 23, so I can't comment on the old war. I think this time will be a little different though. The Mustang not only has competition from other US makers, but also from imports. I get the most heat from my roommate who has a 350z. Since I got my GT, he's spent about $3,000 into mods for his car because he feels threatened

ryan1112

I too love to see this muscle car revolution. It has been great to see Ford put so much into the Mustang which helps us get away from stupid rice burners. I hope that Dodge can come out with a little more direct competition for the Mustang to keep this going.

The main problem is the gas crisis going on. Personally I have been able to get by with the raising prices but with the possibility of gas going over $3 a gallon, I am very concerned. I think that if we can at least keep the price down to about the $2 range over the next few years, we should still be able to keep the muscle car alive and well.

I think the big problem with our gas problem is SUV's. :notnice: I get an average of about 22 to 23 MPG in my 05 Mustang and for a car of its power, that is not bad. I have seen that most SUV's don't do nearly that well. If people would buy cars that have the same storage and towing capacity ie. Dodge Magnum, they would get better gas mileage and help get gas prices down. Hence more people could afford muscle cars.

HBergeron

Of course it won't be the last - it may be the last gasoline powered muscle car revival, but not the last muscle car revival. As soon as the kinks get worked out and there are multiple mass production electric (by this I mean fuel cell, hydrogen, IC assist or just straight battery - I make no judgements as to which will succeed) vehicles on the road someone will come out with an overpowered performance version that will fit anyones definition of a muscle car (unless that definition includes a required v8 burble, in which case I would put you in the "reactionary" class of enthusiasts)

When I was just a tyke I built a go cart with a Datsun starter motor as the drive source. To be more exact, this was really a drag cart - but that's all it needed to be. The sheer acceleration and speed that thing was capable of made all of my friends briggs and stratton powered carts look like big wheels. (side note, the Datsun part is not optional - I have never found, nor heard of, an electric motor with so much torque plus the ability to crank regularly for as long as a 45 seconds without burning out - the thing was over-engineered to an absurd degree.) My point is, electric propulsion is capable of some truely mind blowing performance and I, for one, look forward to the day when I have 4 high current motors mounted in the wheels of a long slung 4 seat convertible that can rip off 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. 2020 Mustang EHO, here I come.

bpmurr

I think that if Ford was smart they will incorporate some kind of cylinder deactivation like on the 300c and Charger Hemi models. It would help give those of us that don’t always drive like a bat out of heck an extra couple miles a gallon.

As for the whole gas crisis we are starting to get into. I think a lot of the price inflation is total speculation and not based in real fact. The cost of a barrel of oil should be between $35 to $40 dollars at most. It seems like if a dark cloud forms over an oilrig or refinery all heck breaks loose. Then you have the terror factor included in the price that is probably $10 to $15 bucks right there. When terrorist actually do effect the pipeline then add that on top of the price. Don’t add it because you think it will happen but never does. I think we are in a situation while demand is high supply is still there and people are getting a little too greedy. Kind of reminds me of dealers who charger $7k over sticker. At some point, the bottom will fall out on this market.

With that said I think the performance car wars will continue on. Muscle car wars would be ok to say if there were more then one other muscle car. Right now the cars the Mustang competes against are the 350z, G35, RX-8, GTO, WRX, and EVO. Not exactly what I would call muscle cars but they are all performance machines.

WB05stang

Ford got the jump this time. But back in the early 60's Ford was not considered a muscle car. That is how they got the pony term.

The wars started in 64 with the GTO, and then Chrysler got into the game Ford didn't get into that mix until 66 67. You also have to remember on a base to base car comparison GM and Chrylser pretty much pounded Ford.

In all actuallity if GM and Chrysler really wanted to do it they could easily beat the new Mustang but they don't seem to have the will to do that so we get to sit on top for awhile.

THRUST_

I sure hope this isn't the last muscle car war because even though I'm old enough to drive, I'm not old enough to afford any of the new "muscle cars."

my hope is that I can own a few stangs, both new and classics before the day when gasoline engines are outlawed.

Patience

exactly. i will keep up with the joneses. my goal is to be able to stomp the new charger soon to be released. a few G's should do it---

cyoon

Uhh... Murray, where are you getting your information from? Oil for $40/barrel are over. Unless we find some really huge non OPEC controled oil source I doubt oil will come down in price. Europeans and Asians have been paying higher prices per gallon for gas than we have been paying for years. I kind of doubt oil will decrease in cost especially when China is starting to become an oil based economy. I only see prices going higher.

NosferatuVI

China is not an "oil" based economy. Watch in the very near future as China makes agressive steps in implementing both Hybrid legistlation and hydrogen development.

Soon there will be alot more electric / hydrogen cars running around in China and in the push for globalization they will export there Chinese branded hybrid efficient vehicles to all parts of the world.

By 2010 at the latest the US will be flooded with cheap, fuel efficient "imports" that will appeal not only to the young student driver but to the cost conscience commuter as well.

It will be the new "import" domestic battle that we saw in the 80's and the decline of the American automobile manufactures hold of the market. But in stead of Japan it will be Chinese/ Korean brands dominating and America better get on the ball or be left without an auto industry all together.

cyoon

Well first, I said that China is going to become one. And you can't use hydrogen or hybridization to base and economy off of. You still need oil for many major industries. For example flight industries. I also don't think the transportation industry will be using hydrogen or hybridization technology as oil is a better way of doing things. Also hydrogen is not really safe to use yet because there is no way to transport it safely without it blowing up city blocks accidentally.

You do have a point regarding cheap cars coming from China, but that will only last as long as their populace is willing to work for pennies. I actually think if that happens, US auto manufacturers will be dead or exporting all their jobs to china and korea. Just like the way Nike has all of its stuff made in asia. China is the sleeping giant that may kill the US auto makers. But they will also kill european and japanese makers also. The only advantage current makers will have is that they will have a styling, legacy, and brand name that Chinese companies won't have, but I suspect Chinese auto makers will buy out US brand names.

Soon I think there will be pontiacs or mercuries, etc... that will be on the market for cheap and the comany will be coverty owned by Chinese companies. That will be scary. And if it happens in any way similar to the Japanese rise in the auto market, the Chinese will make ugly affordable cars then eventually make stylish afordable cars that will hurt the US auto makers.

Dan

I can tell you one thing, the increase in gas prices will definately have an effect on Dodge and GM's plans to bring back their versions. At current prices, we're okay but if gas starts climbing, some of these projects might just get shelved.

CA Stang

I say that high gas prices are here to stay. On an inflation adjusted basis, crude oil (at its current level of $67 per barrel) and gas are still much cheaper than the prices paid during the energy crisis of the early and late 70's, where the inflation adjusted price of crude oil was $90 per barrel. Global demand for oil is increasing at exponential rates in China and India, and excess oil capacity for the world's oil producers (mainly Saudi Arabia) are being pushed to their limits. Add in political upheavel in the Middle East, and $3.00 a gallon in the future sounds like a reality.

For most people, the increase in gas prices haven't had a dramatic impact on their driving habits. But there will be a breaking point at some price. For now, I'm going to enjoy my V8 Mustang, with the realization that gas prices will most likely continue to rise over the long-run, and alternative fuel sources will become a necessity in the future. Lets enjoy these new-age muscle cars while we have them.

Stangers

This is the second time around for me.First the 60's/70's wars now the.......well almost muscle car war's.
I still drove my SCJ during the so called shortage back then and I'll keep driving my 05 GT now......nomatter what .

I think Dodge and GM will still take the last retro plundge with there Challenger and GTO(some talk kickin around about the Camaro too).

"But lets face it Factory cars like these will unfortunatly fade out in the future."(That statement ring a bell to you ole schoolers?)

When I saw the Mustang at the auto show I just could'nt believe what I saw.We were actualy getting a body style like that back.
A Retro RWD Mustang V8 300HP.

This retro body style could of easly been a new line up somewhere in between the 70 and 73's.

I'm still in aw when I look at the 05 Mustang and feel lucky we got it.
Hopefully this generation will be able to get a taste of what we once had.
Ok I'm ramblin
PS:I stll love those 03,04 Cobra's

Ranger

When it comes to predicting the future, I am probably the last person to get it right. I think at least for the next 10 years or so, muscle cars as we know them will continue to play a role. Like it or not, there is a large group of kids growing up that are not tied to the 60's and 70's and will have other views of what a "hot" car is. I'm thinking that this time, gas prices will not return to anywhere near what we think. There are some so called experts who say the Saudi's do not have anywhere near the untapped reserves that they say they do. Throw politics into the mix and depending on who gets in in 08 and what the gas prices are - there may be more heat than there was when the manufacturers cut back on horsepower in the early 70's.

wilsonchristian

>>>
QUOTE(NosferatuVI @ August 24, 2005, 3:44 PM)
China is not an "oil" based economy. Watch in the very near future as China makes agressive steps in implementing both Hybrid legistlation and hydrogen development.

Soon there will be alot more electric / hydrogen cars running around in China and in the push for globalization they will export there Chinese branded hybrid efficient vehicles to all parts of the world.
>>>


Uh, last I heard, China was a 'wood-based' economy. Seriously folks, alot of people over there haven't graduated to charcoal yet for the family hearth, for heating cooking etc.

My feeling is that Chinese people when they start having the sort of car economy we have, will just be like adding a (eastern) european country, to the mix in terms of total car ownership (in millions). People over there cannot afford cars. I think somehtin like 1 in 100 000 people even has close to the standard of living we do. I further speculate that the car buying public in China represents about 1-5 million people at the most. Nobody is gonna have a car. I bet there are more cars in Spain than China right now.

Consequently I don't think their demand for oil will be any greater than when all the eastern european countries joined the 20th century a few years ago.

I'm rambling too,

-Christian

Galaxie

I agree with others that this horsepower war will end in the future just like the last one... I feel the victim this time will be the SUV's and not the muscle car.

The Muscle car is much more a niche now than the gas pigs that SUV's are.

My mustang is currently averaging almost 22MPG in mixed driving, which is significantly better than the SUV's on the market. Given that is pretty close to an average V6 family sedan, I think that there will always be people willing to pay the fuel premium for a Mustang

I agree with Dan though that given the current climate, unless the car companies are confident that oil prices will settle in a more reasonable range, they will not spend hundreds of millions of dollars developing a RWD car, they will probably concentrate their R&D money on the hybrid race and diesel engines.