MyColor Lawsuit
1/17/05, 12:23 PM
#21
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I can maybe add some useful info to this discussion because I actually hold a couple patents myself.
You do not patent an idea. You patent a METHOD or way of doing something. For example, using someone else's analogy, you do not patent a Cure for Cancer. You patent a specific WAY of curing a specific type of cancer (ie a treatment method or a specific drug or what have you).
You do NOT need to have a working prototype to file a patent, at least technically. However, if you don't have a working prototype, then all you really have is a general idea. You can patent that, but all someone else has to do is come along, change your 'way of doing it' or 'novelty' slightly by altering his design a bit, and poof, your patent holds no water. In other words, if you don't have a prototype (think about WHY you don't have one - you can't make it?), it means that your design is probably TOO global and too non-specific to be of any value. Someone else will come along with a real, specific design, and say 'oh, well you didn't say that in your patent', and he can patent his own. Like the cure for cancer - you could just go and patent that right now if you wanted (well okay, not quite THAT vague, but you get the idea), but when someone actually invents a REAL cure, his design/concept will be so different from yours that your patent won't cover it.
With regard to this whole lawsuit, what really matters is how different Ford/Delphi's version of this thing is than Weyer's. If their approach is novel in any way, slightly different from his, or using a different means or construction, then his patent probably won't stand against it. That's what Delphi's lawyers will be looking for - any difference they can use to declare his patent a 'different' way of achieving the same result.
As someone who has a couple patents, I hope that IF Ford really stole this guys idea, then frankly I hope they have to shell out big time. If this guy is just gold-digging, well..... it was a good shot, better luck next time.
You do not patent an idea. You patent a METHOD or way of doing something. For example, using someone else's analogy, you do not patent a Cure for Cancer. You patent a specific WAY of curing a specific type of cancer (ie a treatment method or a specific drug or what have you).
You do NOT need to have a working prototype to file a patent, at least technically. However, if you don't have a working prototype, then all you really have is a general idea. You can patent that, but all someone else has to do is come along, change your 'way of doing it' or 'novelty' slightly by altering his design a bit, and poof, your patent holds no water. In other words, if you don't have a prototype (think about WHY you don't have one - you can't make it?), it means that your design is probably TOO global and too non-specific to be of any value. Someone else will come along with a real, specific design, and say 'oh, well you didn't say that in your patent', and he can patent his own. Like the cure for cancer - you could just go and patent that right now if you wanted (well okay, not quite THAT vague, but you get the idea), but when someone actually invents a REAL cure, his design/concept will be so different from yours that your patent won't cover it.
With regard to this whole lawsuit, what really matters is how different Ford/Delphi's version of this thing is than Weyer's. If their approach is novel in any way, slightly different from his, or using a different means or construction, then his patent probably won't stand against it. That's what Delphi's lawyers will be looking for - any difference they can use to declare his patent a 'different' way of achieving the same result.
As someone who has a couple patents, I hope that IF Ford really stole this guys idea, then frankly I hope they have to shell out big time. If this guy is just gold-digging, well..... it was a good shot, better luck next time.
1/17/05, 06:33 PM
#22
Hey darth-rob really production is back on , how did you here and did you know if they did more for the supply and demand ? Does anybody know a way to track an order rather than e-mail Ford as well the dealers get updates to thier orders weekly I was told. But when one is told to at least expect 6-8 weeks that it really feels like 6-8 months all that pain and suffering :-( .
1/17/05, 08:25 PM
#23
Sounds to me like Weyer does not have a case.
His patent specifically says
As I understang the Delphi system, it uses different color LEDs and varies the brightness of the different color LEDs to create the different colors.
A completely different system, and the US Patent Office appears to agree as they have given Delphi a their own patent.
I agree with Martimus, it looks like this guy Weyer is trying to make a living by patenting ideas and then trying to sue anyone who ever makes something similar to his "idea" He does not appear to have any intention to ever make a working model nor to put a product into production.
Screw this guy, he's just another leech on society.
His patent specifically says
and a plurality of differently colored filters disposed between said light sources and said face
A completely different system, and the US Patent Office appears to agree as they have given Delphi a their own patent.
I agree with Martimus, it looks like this guy Weyer is trying to make a living by patenting ideas and then trying to sue anyone who ever makes something similar to his "idea" He does not appear to have any intention to ever make a working model nor to put a product into production.
Screw this guy, he's just another leech on society.
1/19/05, 08:16 AM
#25
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This was just posted on the news wires. Frank has filed an injunction suit against Ford and appears to be willing to settle for a 10% royalty on the my color upgrade.
His figure of $750 for the IUP is wrong. It is actually $450 retail. He thinks half of the IUP is for My Color. He is willing to go for $4 per unit royalty but if he calculates it out at $450 retail, then he would only get $2.25 per unit.
Lawsuit Update
He does mentioned he's getting e-mails from us about his suit.
The preliminary hearing is set for Feb 28th. Let's hope as many people get built as possible before that date in case it doesn't go Ford's way.
His figure of $750 for the IUP is wrong. It is actually $450 retail. He thinks half of the IUP is for My Color. He is willing to go for $4 per unit royalty but if he calculates it out at $450 retail, then he would only get $2.25 per unit.
Lawsuit Update
He does mentioned he's getting e-mails from us about his suit.
The preliminary hearing is set for Feb 28th. Let's hope as many people get built as possible before that date in case it doesn't go Ford's way.
1/19/05, 08:46 AM
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Worst case scenario--they lose the case and have to pay him $2.25 per IUP installed car. Big deal! Do you really think Ford is going to do away with IUP because of $2.25 per car? I'm sure Ford profits way more than $2.25 from each IUP sales.
1/19/05, 10:18 AM
#27
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Either a typo or someone failed math 101. If IUP is $450, and Mycolor is half of that, and he wants 10%, comes to $22.50 a unit. If Ford sells 170,000 Mustangs, and half are IUP, he is looking at a couple million. Thats for every model year. If Mycolor continues for a few years, and/or becomes available in other Ford models, the number to him could get quite large. I have to believe Ford will do whatever is necessary to keep the line moving.
1/19/05, 10:28 AM
#28
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You're absolutely right, Don. And I am quite embarassed I didn't pick up on it myself (I'm the Senior Reimbursement Analyst for a multi-hospital corporation). I guess I was :sleep: on that one.
10% would be $22.50 per unit (or $37.50 based on his $750 upgrade figure that we know is false)
10% would be $22.50 per unit (or $37.50 based on his $750 upgrade figure that we know is false)
1/19/05, 05:58 PM
#29
Originally posted by jbuch@January 19, 2005, 9:49 AM
Do you really think Ford is going to do away with IUP because of $2.25 per car?
Do you really think Ford is going to do away with IUP because of $2.25 per car?
The big 3 did not have intermittant wipers on most models until the 1970s because they were waiting for the patent to run out. Royalties would have only been about $1 per vehicle.
GM tried many times to get out of their license agreement with the SCCA for the use of the "Trans-Am" name. IIRC the royaty was about $10 per Trans-Am and GM didn't want to pay it. GM almost changed the name of the Trans-Am several times.
A couple bucks a car may not seem like much to you or me, but consider total vehicle sales are around 16 million a year (all manufacturers). The bean counters don't want to give away a nickel.
1/19/05, 06:27 PM
#30
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I bet the MY COLOR feature dies this year and will be replaced by all the same goodies minus the color changing lights. Probably will be called 18L or something. Same simulated chrome rings, same door sills, same dash treatment, same door panel treatment, same message center (which is currently in other ford SUV products and some Lincoln lines) just sans the color changing gizmo.
As for Windows, BOB your wrong. It was a Company called Berkley Software of which I was a product development tester (both Alpha and Beta test groups) and the program was called GEOS and it was designed on the Apple IIe platform.
GEOS- Graphic Enivroment Operating System, before GUI became even a nomenclature.
As for Windows, BOB your wrong. It was a Company called Berkley Software of which I was a product development tester (both Alpha and Beta test groups) and the program was called GEOS and it was designed on the Apple IIe platform.
GEOS- Graphic Enivroment Operating System, before GUI became even a nomenclature.
1/19/05, 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by V10+January 19, 2005, 9:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (V10 @ January 19, 2005, 9:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jbuch@January 19, 2005, 9:49 AM
Do you really think Ford is going to do away with IUP because of $2.25 per car?
Do you really think Ford is going to do away with IUP because of $2.25 per car?
The big 3 did not have intermittant wipers on most models until the 1970s because they were waiting for the patent to run out. Royalties would have only been about $1 per vehicle.
GM tried many times to get out of their license agreement with the SCCA for the use of the "Trans-Am" name. IIRC the royaty was about $10 per Trans-Am and GM didn't want to pay it. GM almost changed the name of the Trans-Am several times.
A couple bucks a car may not seem like much to you or me, but consider total vehicle sales are around 16 million a year (all manufacturers). The bean counters don't want to give away a nickel. [/b][/quote]
Did the big 3 charge extra for intermittant wipers back then? My point is that Ford would make more money installing IUP's and paying this guy than not installing any IUP's.
1/19/05, 09:05 PM
#33
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the whole reason the mycolor iup was delayed is because of lack of material, not this darn lawsuit
rumors.....
nothing is going to happen delphi makes them
they have a patent on them
rumors.....
nothing is going to happen delphi makes them
they have a patent on them
1/19/05, 11:52 PM
#35
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by NosferatuVI@January 19, 2005, 8:30 PM
IAs for Windows, BOB your wrong. It was a Company called Berkley Software of which I was a product development tester (both Alpha and Beta test groups) and the program was called GEOS and it was designed on the Apple IIe platform.
GEOS- Graphic Enivroment Operating System, before GUI became even a nomenclature.
IAs for Windows, BOB your wrong. It was a Company called Berkley Software of which I was a product development tester (both Alpha and Beta test groups) and the program was called GEOS and it was designed on the Apple IIe platform.
GEOS- Graphic Enivroment Operating System, before GUI became even a nomenclature.
Still though interesting stuff
1/20/05, 04:20 PM
#36
Originally posted by jbuch+January 19, 2005, 8:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jbuch @ January 19, 2005, 8:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Absolutely!
The big 3 did not have intermittant wipers on most models until the 1970s because they were waiting for the patent to run out. Royalties would have only been about $1 per vehicle.
GM tried many times to get out of their license agreement with the SCCA for the use of the "Trans-Am" name. IIRC the royaty was about $10 per Trans-Am and GM didn't want to pay it. GM almost changed the name of the Trans-Am several times.
A couple bucks a car may not seem like much to you or me, but consider total vehicle sales are around 16 million a year (all manufacturers). The bean counters don't want to give away a nickel.
Originally posted by V10@January 19, 2005, 9:01 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-jbuch
<!--QuoteBegin-jbuch
@January 19, 2005, 9:49 AM
Do you really think Ford is going to do away with IUP because of $2.25 per car?
Do you really think Ford is going to do away with IUP because of $2.25 per car?
Absolutely!
The big 3 did not have intermittant wipers on most models until the 1970s because they were waiting for the patent to run out. Royalties would have only been about $1 per vehicle.
GM tried many times to get out of their license agreement with the SCCA for the use of the "Trans-Am" name. IIRC the royaty was about $10 per Trans-Am and GM didn't want to pay it. GM almost changed the name of the Trans-Am several times.
A couple bucks a car may not seem like much to you or me, but consider total vehicle sales are around 16 million a year (all manufacturers). The bean counters don't want to give away a nickel.
Yes they did charge extra for intermittant wipers back then.
For whatever reason (bean counters?) the auto industry does not want to pay royalties, even if they are very small.
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