mustang gt bumpersticker?
9/15/10, 08:17 PM
#3
That's amazing. The kid on the sticker looks so life like.
I saw a fairtax one today. I don't remember what it said but the car had another sticker on it that said "Don't look at me for your fair share."
I saw a fairtax one today. I don't remember what it said but the car had another sticker on it that said "Don't look at me for your fair share."
9/16/10, 08:40 AM
#6
Legacy TMS Member
---
All for this. All for it.
Problem is, swallowing the 15% on top of everything you buy...
"Yeah, I'll have that $.99 burrito please."
Before: "That'll be $1.07" (Houston, Texas, 8.25% State/local)
After: "That'll be $1.22" (Both taxes combined, 8.25%+15% Fed)
Or, maybe a $500 computer or TV?
$541.25 before. Kinda ow, but...
$616.25 after. Owie.
How about a nice $5000 complete entertainment system or other 'zappo' item?
$5412.50 before
$6162.50 after. Nice. $1200 taxes, $800 more than before.
Apply that as needed. But at least everyone will pay, and nobody won't, and you won't get to pay a hunk of money at the start of the year...
But easily, that is the hardest part, making people cool with the jump in 'end' pricing of items.
And doing away with the IRS. That's not gonna be easy.
And making CPA's cool with it, because CPAs are only in business for the taxes...
And of course, convincing/electing those who would make it happen in the Federal Government... that's probably the hardest bit.
/probably a LOT more other hard things, but thems the direct ones I can think of...
//And a ton of *piddly* things that are just argumentative bs, because there's an equal, if not more, ton of them for the current way.
Last edited by houtex; 9/16/10 at 08:46 AM.
9/16/10, 04:48 PM
#8
legacy Tms Member
Thread Starter
houtex- the 15% was a perot flat tax...this is different. and due to crazy spending since Perot's time and costs of the 'fair' part, its now at 23%- OUCH people say, but you gotta look closer:
every US citizen (sorry illegals) gets a 'prebate' monthly from the government- wether dirt poor or Bill Gates, all get the same prebate check- think its like 800 a month for a family of 4, the idea is that UP TO POVERTY LEVEL noone pays any tax...the prebate pays ALL taxes up to poverty level, so things like food aint hit.
next- you take home your whole paycheck...no social security, no income taxes...for most folks this alone saves big.
next- no interest/income taxes- entices folks to save the more money they are taking home, and not getting penalized for it.
next- what do you pay for filing taxes? if youve got any 'kinda complicated' stuff you pay a lot for filing... no more IRS. yess this puts a whole lot of IRS employees and tax accountants out of work, but its work that is unnecessary other than being a IRS requirement
next- states/counties get a percent of the tax for 'collection fees'...there is really no more work than already in place for collecting sales taxes, so its a kinda free money direct to local govt type of thing.
thats my take in a nutshell why its not such a bad thing...
my take on why its a good thing:
1) the tax code is currently at 67,000 pages, 99 percent of that is due to our kings- opps I mean our congress, earmarking paybacks to contributors- opps I mean adding tax incentives to create jobs...this tax takes the cookie jar out of reach.
2) goods now are not taxed until finished/sold as new at retail (used goods are exempt too- so old cars/existing homes just went up in value bigtime)- if employers aint got to match taxes, their business costs go down, so either profits go up(yea) or prices can be reduced (but ALL goods will now be taxed at same across the board levels, where right now some imported stuff is built at dirt cheap labor/tax included costs...that ends (big yea)
3) drug dealers, prostitutes, illegals, even politicians, now pay the same tax whenever they spend a buck...my apologies to these folks for lumping them in with politicians
costs can be debated, but in my thinking, the only losers are those that shuffle tax paper or love to add earmarks (illegals get hit hard- no prebate PLUS now they pay taxes- sorry guys).
while I feel sorry for accountants, most folks would rather see the IRS go away even if they have to downsize hr block at the same time...face it, our economy wont grow on service work for unnecessary services...we need to start PRODUCING tangible goods again. paying each other to write each other reciepts dont help the economy at all.
I waxed my bumper before applying this- anyone think of any better way to protect the paint from a stupid piece of adhesive backed vinyl? I hate bumper stickers, but really got a strong feeling this could possibly start capping some of the corruption thats run so rampant lately, sh had to put my money where my mouth is or vice-versa...
taxing consumption rather than hard work makes a helluva lot of sense to my little mind
every US citizen (sorry illegals) gets a 'prebate' monthly from the government- wether dirt poor or Bill Gates, all get the same prebate check- think its like 800 a month for a family of 4, the idea is that UP TO POVERTY LEVEL noone pays any tax...the prebate pays ALL taxes up to poverty level, so things like food aint hit.
next- you take home your whole paycheck...no social security, no income taxes...for most folks this alone saves big.
next- no interest/income taxes- entices folks to save the more money they are taking home, and not getting penalized for it.
next- what do you pay for filing taxes? if youve got any 'kinda complicated' stuff you pay a lot for filing... no more IRS. yess this puts a whole lot of IRS employees and tax accountants out of work, but its work that is unnecessary other than being a IRS requirement
next- states/counties get a percent of the tax for 'collection fees'...there is really no more work than already in place for collecting sales taxes, so its a kinda free money direct to local govt type of thing.
thats my take in a nutshell why its not such a bad thing...
my take on why its a good thing:
1) the tax code is currently at 67,000 pages, 99 percent of that is due to our kings- opps I mean our congress, earmarking paybacks to contributors- opps I mean adding tax incentives to create jobs...this tax takes the cookie jar out of reach.
2) goods now are not taxed until finished/sold as new at retail (used goods are exempt too- so old cars/existing homes just went up in value bigtime)- if employers aint got to match taxes, their business costs go down, so either profits go up(yea) or prices can be reduced (but ALL goods will now be taxed at same across the board levels, where right now some imported stuff is built at dirt cheap labor/tax included costs...that ends (big yea)
3) drug dealers, prostitutes, illegals, even politicians, now pay the same tax whenever they spend a buck...my apologies to these folks for lumping them in with politicians
costs can be debated, but in my thinking, the only losers are those that shuffle tax paper or love to add earmarks (illegals get hit hard- no prebate PLUS now they pay taxes- sorry guys).
while I feel sorry for accountants, most folks would rather see the IRS go away even if they have to downsize hr block at the same time...face it, our economy wont grow on service work for unnecessary services...we need to start PRODUCING tangible goods again. paying each other to write each other reciepts dont help the economy at all.
I waxed my bumper before applying this- anyone think of any better way to protect the paint from a stupid piece of adhesive backed vinyl? I hate bumper stickers, but really got a strong feeling this could possibly start capping some of the corruption thats run so rampant lately, sh had to put my money where my mouth is or vice-versa...
taxing consumption rather than hard work makes a helluva lot of sense to my little mind
Last edited by ford4v429; 9/16/10 at 05:10 PM.
9/16/10, 05:08 PM
#9
I lust for a M24
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Here's the bigger thing w/ The Fair Tax IMO,
Right now domestic companies are shipping millions of jobs overseas. Why? Because it's cheaper. With The Fair Tax the costs to produce goods and employ workers is dramatically reduced since taxes are only being paid on the end product when it's purchased by the consumer. With this dramatic reduction in the cost to produce goods domestically, companies loose the incentive to produce overseas. Jobs come back to the US. (Couldn't we use that now?!?!) and it's highly likely that The US would become the worlds tax shelter and foreign companies would begin to outsource jobs and manufacturing TO The US. The price of producing goods domestically is reduced and in a market economy the prices will fall due to competition, though maybe not immediately, it will happen.
Will this ever happen? I doubt anytime soon if ever, although the anti-government anti-tax feelings in this country do seem to be growing. Politicians will hate it. Why? How else would the be able to buy votes? Without discretionary taxes, how will Politicians game the tax code? What in the world would politics be like without class warfare and special interest groups?
More jobs, lower taxes, more affordable goods, less room for political corruption... all sounds pretty horrible.
Disclaimer: It's been a couple of years since I last studied The Fair Tax, feel free to correct any minor details that may be wrong.
Right now domestic companies are shipping millions of jobs overseas. Why? Because it's cheaper. With The Fair Tax the costs to produce goods and employ workers is dramatically reduced since taxes are only being paid on the end product when it's purchased by the consumer. With this dramatic reduction in the cost to produce goods domestically, companies loose the incentive to produce overseas. Jobs come back to the US. (Couldn't we use that now?!?!) and it's highly likely that The US would become the worlds tax shelter and foreign companies would begin to outsource jobs and manufacturing TO The US. The price of producing goods domestically is reduced and in a market economy the prices will fall due to competition, though maybe not immediately, it will happen.
Will this ever happen? I doubt anytime soon if ever, although the anti-government anti-tax feelings in this country do seem to be growing. Politicians will hate it. Why? How else would the be able to buy votes? Without discretionary taxes, how will Politicians game the tax code? What in the world would politics be like without class warfare and special interest groups?
More jobs, lower taxes, more affordable goods, less room for political corruption... all sounds pretty horrible.
Disclaimer: It's been a couple of years since I last studied The Fair Tax, feel free to correct any minor details that may be wrong.
Last edited by 05GT-O.C.D.; 9/16/10 at 05:10 PM.
9/16/10, 05:13 PM
#10
legacy Tms Member
Thread Starter
Here's the bigger thing w/ The Fair Tax IMO,
Right now domestic companies are shipping millions of jobs overseas. Why? Because it's cheaper. With The Fair Tax the costs to produce goods and employ workers is dramatically reduced since taxes are only being paid on the end product when it's purchased by the consumer. With this dramatic reduction in the cost to produce goods domestically, companies loose the incentive to produce overseas. Jobs come back to the US. (Couldn't we use that now?!?!) and it's highly likely that The US would become the worlds tax shelter and foreign companies would begin to outsource jobs and manufacturing TO The US. The price of producing goods domestically is reduced and in a market economy the prices will fall due to competition, though maybe not immediately, it will happen.
Will this ever happen? I doubt anytime soon if ever, although the anti-government anti-tax feelings in this country do seem to be growing. Politicians will hate it. Why? How else would the be able to buy votes? Without discretionary taxes, how will Politicians game the tax code? What in the world would politics be like without class warfare and special interest groups?
More jobs, lower taxes, more affordable goods, less room for political corruption... all sounds pretty horrible.
Disclaimer: It's been a couple of years since I last studied The Fair Tax, feel free to correct any minor details that may be wrong.
Right now domestic companies are shipping millions of jobs overseas. Why? Because it's cheaper. With The Fair Tax the costs to produce goods and employ workers is dramatically reduced since taxes are only being paid on the end product when it's purchased by the consumer. With this dramatic reduction in the cost to produce goods domestically, companies loose the incentive to produce overseas. Jobs come back to the US. (Couldn't we use that now?!?!) and it's highly likely that The US would become the worlds tax shelter and foreign companies would begin to outsource jobs and manufacturing TO The US. The price of producing goods domestically is reduced and in a market economy the prices will fall due to competition, though maybe not immediately, it will happen.
Will this ever happen? I doubt anytime soon if ever, although the anti-government anti-tax feelings in this country do seem to be growing. Politicians will hate it. Why? How else would the be able to buy votes? Without discretionary taxes, how will Politicians game the tax code? What in the world would politics be like without class warfare and special interest groups?
More jobs, lower taxes, more affordable goods, less room for political corruption... all sounds pretty horrible.
Disclaimer: It's been a couple of years since I last studied The Fair Tax, feel free to correct any minor details that may be wrong.
thanks John -
if ya want a sticker stop by
Last edited by ford4v429; 9/16/10 at 05:18 PM.
9/16/10, 08:52 PM
#11
Legacy TMS Member
Goodness.
All the specialist crap (prebates and such) aside, it boils down to this:
Do the poor get a free ticket now? Yes. That will not stop. Too many bleeding hearts. Honestly, while I'm not terribly for it, I'm not a complete jerk. So no problem, overall, except I'd like to see some of them crawl up out of handout city. For some reason, it seems to be a terminal problem for many.
But what will stop is that they can't get a $.99 bean burrito for $1.08 (in Houston, Texas, your city/state may vary). Not even for prebates. Taco Bell does not care, they are just going to charge us all the 'fair tax' on it. Whether you're the poorest panhandler, or Bill Gates, a $.99 burrito will be $.99. >>PLUS TAX<< No matter your income/wealth level.
The question is, what's the tax rate? 15%? 25%? What? Because a fair tax requires you do exactly that: Charge sales tax for federal, and everyone gets it.
The bonus is you get to keep all that fed withholding. Great. Awesomely done, I approve. Which is the point, I believe: More money to throw around... and the government gets theirs in the spending about. So really, you didn't wind up with anything more. But the drug dealers still pay taxes. That's good stuff there. Drug money runs America in some way. Gotta like that.
I'm sure I missed a point or two, but I'm pretty **** close, no matter who's plan you like to try to spin it.
/In a nutshell, Fair Tax isn't unless it's applied equally to all, per capita, on spending, no income level check required.
All the specialist crap (prebates and such) aside, it boils down to this:
Do the poor get a free ticket now? Yes. That will not stop. Too many bleeding hearts. Honestly, while I'm not terribly for it, I'm not a complete jerk. So no problem, overall, except I'd like to see some of them crawl up out of handout city. For some reason, it seems to be a terminal problem for many.
But what will stop is that they can't get a $.99 bean burrito for $1.08 (in Houston, Texas, your city/state may vary). Not even for prebates. Taco Bell does not care, they are just going to charge us all the 'fair tax' on it. Whether you're the poorest panhandler, or Bill Gates, a $.99 burrito will be $.99. >>PLUS TAX<< No matter your income/wealth level.
The question is, what's the tax rate? 15%? 25%? What? Because a fair tax requires you do exactly that: Charge sales tax for federal, and everyone gets it.
The bonus is you get to keep all that fed withholding. Great. Awesomely done, I approve. Which is the point, I believe: More money to throw around... and the government gets theirs in the spending about. So really, you didn't wind up with anything more. But the drug dealers still pay taxes. That's good stuff there. Drug money runs America in some way. Gotta like that.
I'm sure I missed a point or two, but I'm pretty **** close, no matter who's plan you like to try to spin it.
/In a nutshell, Fair Tax isn't unless it's applied equally to all, per capita, on spending, no income level check required.
9/16/10, 09:02 PM
#12
I lust for a M24
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that's basically exactly what it is. Honestly, I haven't studied it in years. I'd mail you my book, but I can't. I had the book, but after having the same professor for a few consecutive economics classes I gave the book to her. I told her that I couldn't have her continuing to influence the minds of young economists without having her read the book. I gave it to her, and asked her to give it back when she was done. My address was listed inside, she lives in my neighborhood. I STILL haven't gotten my book back.
But hey, if she liked it that much and is using it for material then I guess it's all win. Houtex: I'll make you a deal. PM me your address. I'll buy and mail you a copy of the book, just as long as you promise to read it and pass it along when you're done. :deal:
Last edited by 05GT-O.C.D.; 9/16/10 at 09:04 PM.
9/16/10, 09:07 PM
#13
that's basically exactly what it is. Honestly, I haven't studied it in years. I'd mail you my book, but I can't. I had the book, but after having the same professor for a few consecutive economics classes I gave the book to her. I told her that I couldn't have her continuing to influence the minds of young economists without having her read the book. I gave it to her, and asked her to give it back when she was done. My address was listed inside, she lives in my neighborhood. I STILL haven't gotten my book back.
But hey, if she liked it that much and is using it for material then I guess it's all win. Houtex: I'll make you a deal. PM me your address. I'll buy and mail you a copy of the book, just as long as you promise to read it and pass it along when you're done. :deal:
9/16/10, 09:55 PM
#14
legacy Tms Member
Thread Starter
Goodness.
All the specialist crap (prebates and such) aside, it boils down to this:
Do the poor get a free ticket now? Yes. That will not stop. Too many bleeding hearts. Honestly, while I'm not terribly for it, I'm not a complete jerk. So no problem, overall, except I'd like to see some of them crawl up out of handout city. For some reason, it seems to be a terminal problem for many.
But what will stop is that they can't get a $.99 bean burrito for $1.08 (in Houston, Texas, your city/state may vary). Not even for prebates. Taco Bell does not care, they are just going to charge us all the 'fair tax' on it. Whether you're the poorest panhandler, or Bill Gates, a $.99 burrito will be $.99. >>PLUS TAX<< No matter your income/wealth level.
The question is, what's the tax rate? 15%? 25%? What? Because a fair tax requires you do exactly that: Charge sales tax for federal, and everyone gets it.
The bonus is you get to keep all that fed withholding. Great. Awesomely done, I approve. Which is the point, I believe: More money to throw around... and the government gets theirs in the spending about. So really, you didn't wind up with anything more. But the drug dealers still pay taxes. That's good stuff there. Drug money runs America in some way. Gotta like that.
I'm sure I missed a point or two, but I'm pretty **** close, no matter who's plan you like to try to spin it.
/In a nutshell, Fair Tax isn't unless it's applied equally to all, per capita, on spending, no income level check required.
All the specialist crap (prebates and such) aside, it boils down to this:
Do the poor get a free ticket now? Yes. That will not stop. Too many bleeding hearts. Honestly, while I'm not terribly for it, I'm not a complete jerk. So no problem, overall, except I'd like to see some of them crawl up out of handout city. For some reason, it seems to be a terminal problem for many.
But what will stop is that they can't get a $.99 bean burrito for $1.08 (in Houston, Texas, your city/state may vary). Not even for prebates. Taco Bell does not care, they are just going to charge us all the 'fair tax' on it. Whether you're the poorest panhandler, or Bill Gates, a $.99 burrito will be $.99. >>PLUS TAX<< No matter your income/wealth level.
The question is, what's the tax rate? 15%? 25%? What? Because a fair tax requires you do exactly that: Charge sales tax for federal, and everyone gets it.
The bonus is you get to keep all that fed withholding. Great. Awesomely done, I approve. Which is the point, I believe: More money to throw around... and the government gets theirs in the spending about. So really, you didn't wind up with anything more. But the drug dealers still pay taxes. That's good stuff there. Drug money runs America in some way. Gotta like that.
I'm sure I missed a point or two, but I'm pretty **** close, no matter who's plan you like to try to spin it.
/In a nutshell, Fair Tax isn't unless it's applied equally to all, per capita, on spending, no income level check required.
still though, the one THING I like most is the simple fact the congress cant hide payback earmarks by appending the tax code daily. if the lobbyists cant sweettalk tax money to their handlers, they are effectively castrated- as they and their sneaky tax stealing tax ammending friends should be.
remember the first bailout- biggest single piece of legislation in all of history- yet they HAD to include money for a toy arrow company in texas...everyone touted how they 'had' to do this bill, yet they still tried to sneak in a few more earmarks.
putting our cookie jar out of reach, and making illegals NOT get away taxfree, but actually penalized are two things I think our kids would appreciate...and if that burrito costa you/me/bill gates $1.30 instead of 99 cents, so be it...if our paycheck goes from 100 bucks to 135 bucks were still ahead...and rich/poor (long as youre legal) everyone also gets a prebate to help pay that burrito tax.
I agree the entitlements thing has to go- right now a lot of folks cant afford to go back to work. if working you gotta buy gas, pay insurance, child care, etc...today thats often more than a minimum wage job...so WHY is it more expensive to work than sit and collect assistance...unemployed folks need help for sure- but working folks need even MORE, and they DESERVE IT. its really bass-ackwards right now.
anyways... how many other mustangs out there are wearing bumper stickers? I think my cars a little 'rare' right now, but... I put one on our 65 a while back, my wife was like 'Ben would have had a fit if he'd seen that', but I think I knew him well enough that he woulda approved...them old WWII guys aint exactly thrilled with where our government has evolved to from what Ive seen...
Last edited by ford4v429; 9/16/10 at 10:09 PM.
9/17/10, 01:17 PM
#20
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I think there are way too many assumptions that the fair tax would work as well as they think.
Using Houtex's snapshot, that's a lot of pain right in your face:
Not to mention purchasing a new car...
People react to that and change behavior. While its nice to think a consumption tax would improve the economy via increased savings, don't forget a huge portion of our $14 trillion dollar economy is due to consumer spending. If a person sees huge taxes in their face on each purchase, they're either going to curtail their spending or buy secondhand or buy through the underground cash economy. Either way, that's a big dent on purchasing new items and so the 'improved economy' may not necessarily happen.
Course I'm in Oregon (no sales tax) so I repel any thought of consumption taxes because I know the State will not reduce other taxes as an offset. And plenty of Californians and Washingtonians come to Oregon to purchase products 'sales tax free', which bumps up our highly regulated (stifled) State economy. (Course that's a tax revenue loss to Oregon which is why property tax is so high here.)
I'm not convinced a consumption tax will work. And a VAT will kill our economy. But I am convinced a simplified flat tax of some sort would be far better than the IRS/CPA scam currently in place.
Using Houtex's snapshot, that's a lot of pain right in your face:
Or, maybe a $500 computer or TV?
$541.25 before. Kinda ow, but...
$616.25 after. Owie.
How about a nice $5000 complete entertainment system or other 'zappo' item?
$5412.50 before
$6162.50 after. Nice. $1200 taxes, $800 more than before.
$541.25 before. Kinda ow, but...
$616.25 after. Owie.
How about a nice $5000 complete entertainment system or other 'zappo' item?
$5412.50 before
$6162.50 after. Nice. $1200 taxes, $800 more than before.
People react to that and change behavior. While its nice to think a consumption tax would improve the economy via increased savings, don't forget a huge portion of our $14 trillion dollar economy is due to consumer spending. If a person sees huge taxes in their face on each purchase, they're either going to curtail their spending or buy secondhand or buy through the underground cash economy. Either way, that's a big dent on purchasing new items and so the 'improved economy' may not necessarily happen.
Course I'm in Oregon (no sales tax) so I repel any thought of consumption taxes because I know the State will not reduce other taxes as an offset. And plenty of Californians and Washingtonians come to Oregon to purchase products 'sales tax free', which bumps up our highly regulated (stifled) State economy. (Course that's a tax revenue loss to Oregon which is why property tax is so high here.)
I'm not convinced a consumption tax will work. And a VAT will kill our economy. But I am convinced a simplified flat tax of some sort would be far better than the IRS/CPA scam currently in place.