Mustang and E85 fuel
5/18/06, 04:22 PM
#22
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I would love to have E85 be "mandated" into common use, even though I'm a Libertarian at heart.
E85 is the equivalent of 100-105 octane. I could run an extreme tune on my '05 GT, or put on a blower and have a cheap and available source of high test fuel. I'm willing to give up 10-20% fuel economy for moving to a cleaner, longer lasting fuel that removes our dependence on foreign oil.
Would you rather have 15mpg Mustangs forever, or 18mpg Mustangs for a couple more years and then 4cyl wannabe cars thereafter?
E85 is the equivalent of 100-105 octane. I could run an extreme tune on my '05 GT, or put on a blower and have a cheap and available source of high test fuel. I'm willing to give up 10-20% fuel economy for moving to a cleaner, longer lasting fuel that removes our dependence on foreign oil.
Would you rather have 15mpg Mustangs forever, or 18mpg Mustangs for a couple more years and then 4cyl wannabe cars thereafter?
5/18/06, 04:49 PM
#23
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There is also some emerging technology that allows us to refine hydrocarbon "stuff" (things like animal remains, leaves, vegatable scraps, etc) into a highly refined "crude" oil. Much easier to turn this stuff into gasoline. I guess it would be "super light crude" then...
The pilot plants are still working out the bugs (hey! We could also run cockroach carcasses through there!) and the current cost is about $80 a barrel, but the price will come down and it also takes care of waste products at the same time.
Interesting technology.
The pilot plants are still working out the bugs (hey! We could also run cockroach carcasses through there!) and the current cost is about $80 a barrel, but the price will come down and it also takes care of waste products at the same time.
Interesting technology.
5/18/06, 07:43 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by sranger
Well the truth is that E85 & M85 can work is just about any fuel injected car if the computer is re-programed to use it. It does cost about $100.00 to make a few other modifications...
However, the real truth is that E50 or M50 ( 50% mix ) will work in any car... This is somthing that the oil companies does not want to talk about about because it cuts the consumption of Gas in half. You would get less gas milage, but the car would also produce about 40-50% less smog and you can run higher timming because the fuel is over 100 octane so you can make more hp... The really funny part is, at only a 50% mix, we would cut our dependence on Middle east oil by 3/4....
As for worrying about supply, that is a non issue, Methonol and ethonol can be maked cost effectively from sevral sources other than corn. Both can easly be made fron Natural Gas and Bio wast products to make sure a drought could not affect the supply.
The biggest hurdle to these fuels is the fact that the oil companies have sucessfully lobbyed congress to pass laws that limit ( and tax ) Ethonol and methonol to the point of not being cost effective. It is possible with current technology and a little political will to get the cost of these fuels well below that of gasoline.
I personally think Methonol is a better alternative even though it has a little lower BTU content...
However, the real truth is that E50 or M50 ( 50% mix ) will work in any car... This is somthing that the oil companies does not want to talk about about because it cuts the consumption of Gas in half. You would get less gas milage, but the car would also produce about 40-50% less smog and you can run higher timming because the fuel is over 100 octane so you can make more hp... The really funny part is, at only a 50% mix, we would cut our dependence on Middle east oil by 3/4....
As for worrying about supply, that is a non issue, Methonol and ethonol can be maked cost effectively from sevral sources other than corn. Both can easly be made fron Natural Gas and Bio wast products to make sure a drought could not affect the supply.
The biggest hurdle to these fuels is the fact that the oil companies have sucessfully lobbyed congress to pass laws that limit ( and tax ) Ethonol and methonol to the point of not being cost effective. It is possible with current technology and a little political will to get the cost of these fuels well below that of gasoline.
I personally think Methonol is a better alternative even though it has a little lower BTU content...
actually we aren't exactly dependant on the middle east as much as you think. Truth only 15% of US used oil comes from the Saudis. Most the oil for North american consumption comes from our side of the pond. Mostly Gulf of Mexico, Alaska and of the East cost of Canada.
Plus Canada has 49% of the world's oil supply in Alberta. Problem is it's all mixed into the Oil Sands and digging it out is a long and cumberson process. It costs the Saudies $3 a barrel to bring the oil to the surface, where it costs $15-20 a barrel to get out of the oil sands. BUt they are currently working on a better process for this. Specially with the Oil Futures at $70 per barrel, its in their best interest to increase production asap.
Sure methonal might be better in the long run for the planet. But we aren't anywhere near a shortage of Oil. Just Nothing but scare tactics to increase oil prices.
Even with Katrina. There was no way that the gas prices should of risen by that much overnight. Considering that only about 90 oil rigs got wrecked. Out of the thousands (about 4000 rigs i thing) that are in operation there, that is a very small percentage.
5/19/06, 05:44 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by RRRoamer
There is also some emerging technology that allows us to refine hydrocarbon "stuff" (things like animal remains, leaves, vegatable scraps, etc) into a highly refined "crude" oil. Much easier to turn this stuff into gasoline. I guess it would be "super light crude" then...
The pilot plants are still working out the bugs (hey! We could also run cockroach carcasses through there!) and the current cost is about $80 a barrel, but the price will come down and it also takes care of waste products at the same time.
Interesting technology.
The pilot plants are still working out the bugs (hey! We could also run cockroach carcasses through there!) and the current cost is about $80 a barrel, but the price will come down and it also takes care of waste products at the same time.
Interesting technology.
5/19/06, 09:00 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by ISELLFORD
E-85 will NOT , I repeat will NOT work in the Mustang.
It will probably eat up the fuel lines as well as any other non-compatible component.
It will probably eat up the fuel lines as well as any other non-compatible component.
What Ed said. Remember that E85 is alcohol-based, so anything rubber in the system will get eaten up in a hurry. The flex-fule vehicles have those components replaced to alleviate that.
5/19/06, 05:39 PM
#28
Originally Posted by 05 WBGT
It's not just the engine the fuel system has to be different because of how corrosive E85 is.
As others have pointed out, the problem with Ethanol is that it disolves somethings that gasoline does not, so the fuel system has to be able to handle ethanol.
A big problem with Ethanol is that it absorbs water.
Oil and water (& gasoline & water) do not mix, but alcohol and water mix very well.
5/19/06, 05:41 PM
#29
Originally Posted by SquadEngine
I would love to have E85 be "mandated" into common use, even though I'm a Libertarian at heart.
If government subsidies on Ethanaol were removed, it would cost about $5 / gallon on an energy equivalent basis to unleaded gasoline.
5/20/06, 01:21 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by V10
...but alcohol and water mix very well.
The process is calkled "thermal depolymerization" and they have been working on it for a while now. The largest example of it I have seen is being done at a plant they are building next to a turkey factory...butterball maybe?....anyway the turkey people and a university are working on it together. Last I read months ago was that they were now getting some $$ from one of the big oil companies...big surprise. This technology repicates what the earth does to organics but in like 3 days time instead of 3 million years.Anything organic can be turned into "oil". It is very expensive at the moment but think of the possibilities. You can solve an energy problem and a waste problem all in one step. No more landfills. An ideal situation to me would be to use this to produce oil that would then generate energy for power plants that could then produce ethanol. And the grand slam of the whole thing is we could then tell the middle east to go F themselves. That is how you really win the war on terrorism, take away their $$.
5/26/06, 09:30 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Sure do!
One question: What kind of energy - and how much of it - is needed to effectuate thermal depolymerization?
One question: What kind of energy - and how much of it - is needed to effectuate thermal depolymerization?
5/26/06, 09:30 PM
#32
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As stated, the Mustang is not compatible with E-85 standards.
http://www.e85fuel.com/
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php
http://www.e85fuel.com/information/ford.php
Also as stated, having the same engine does not mean that it will be ok to use. Fuel lines, fuel pumps, fuel line connectors, injectors, etc. may be different than other models that use the same engine and can't withstand that strong of a blend of ethanol.
Formula #4 - Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...........94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...........Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combine with water.
-Source
You'll get an octane boost out of it, and pay less at the gas station.
http://www.e85fuel.com/
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php
http://www.e85fuel.com/information/ford.php
Also as stated, having the same engine does not mean that it will be ok to use. Fuel lines, fuel pumps, fuel line connectors, injectors, etc. may be different than other models that use the same engine and can't withstand that strong of a blend of ethanol.
Formula #4 - Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...........94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...........Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combine with water.
-Source
You'll get an octane boost out of it, and pay less at the gas station.
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