HastaLaVista

Really. You might want to pick your battles a little more carefully. This one really isn't worth it.
You say to the officer, "they're not brights, but if you insist, I'll turn them off" and do so. Then turn them back on after you drive off.
If you explain and the officer still insists, refusing and going on about "my rights" or saying something to them like they "should know their place, and that it is to enforce, not create, laws." is a foolish path to take, especially when the alternative is so easy.
As you said, you don't want to rely on the officer's good nature. The best way to accomplish that is to comply and move on.
We're talking about fog lights here. Not your right to peaceably assemble, vote, practice your religion, or something just a *bit* more important than two extra lights on your car.

Big-Foot

It may not be wise to assume that motorvehicle laws are all equal from state to state.

Man - you're reading a lot more into this than you may need to..
Again - Motorvehicle law varies from state to state. Many states it's illegal to use a radar detector. In many MORE states, it is legal to carry or operate a Laser or Radar Jammer. It is also illegal to have a police scanner in your car in many states. Let's see - the number of states that you can LEGALLY do all the things you would like could probably be counted on less than two fingers.

You admit that the cop is just trying to do his/her job, but then you tell us how to skirt the laws? Really? Ford also made a car - which you bought - that would exceed the speed limits in every state in the USA. Does that mean that you have the bought and paid for RIGHT to exceed those speed limits? No. There are laws that govern the use of our cars. We elected the lawmakers. We need to do our best to abide by the law or pay the price..

It's also incumbant upon all of us, as fellow motorists, to get along - share the road - etc. If someone coming at you at night is having a hard time with the glare of your lights, it's the RIGHT thing to do to dim your lights or turn off your driving lights for a short time.

I think you are Assuming that all motorists have the same tolerance for glare that you do. I don't think that this assumption is valid or conciderate.

Let us know how it goes in court when you decide to tick off that egotistical police officer...

1 COBRA

There was an item of interest in my last defensive driving course I took. The trainer said drunk drivers often have a tendency to use lights from oncoming traffic as guidance and direction.

I wonder which direction a drunk will take if he thinks there are two vehicles headed his way?

"Darling... you look marvelous... absolutely marvelous!
Remember, it's not how you feel but how you look!"
-- Billy Crystal

Paris MkVI

Just not a hill worth dying on. I'd flip the fogs off and head on.

Under certain road/lighting conditions, I like to be weird and drive with only the fogs.

kevinb120

The euro SVT focus I had was much brighter with the HID's and the fogs on and I got flashed all the time. You can actually light the brights on top of all the other lights with the flash to pass option. People would flash me and I would hold the lever back and you could see them shielding thier eyes through the windshield The Focus hi beams on that car are about double what my Mustang's are.

CatmanJJ

I see keep them fogs on, looks sweet with all 4 lights blazing.

OBleedingMe

I never assumed that all headlight laws were the same in each state. That would be preposterous. I am speaking for the state of NJ.

Oh my... like most of the general public, you are POORLY informed when it comes to radar detectors and laser jammers, and you've put your foot in your mouth. Let me set you straight. If you don't want to take my word for it, go to radarbusters.com, a radar detector/laser jammer site run by a retired cop. You can also check out radardetector.net, the best Ticket Prevention forum on the net. In fact, here's a link to my Ticket Prevention thread I posted awhile back: Ticket Prevention Thread

Radar Detectors/Laser Detectors - Radar detectors/Laser detectors are LEGAL in 49 states. The ONLY state in which it's completely illegal to own/operate a radar detector is Virginia. HOWEVER, it's illegal in 50 states to operate a radar detector in a tractor trailer or COMMERCIAL truck weight over 2.5 tons. So, as long as you're not in a tractor trailer or live in VA, it's 100% legal to own/operate a radar detector.

Radar Jammers - Radar jammers are 100% ILLEGAL in all 50 states. Although it is legal to own one, it is a FEDERAL OFFENSE to operate one, punishable with a $10,000 fine and up to 1 year in jail. With great radar detectors (like the Escort Passport 8500 X50 and the Valentine 1) giving you a detection range of nearly 2.5 miles of any cop running radar, radar jammers are not needed. Don't buy one.

Laser Jammers - Laser jammers are LEGAL in 47 states. The three states it's illegal in are Minnesota (Minnesota Statutes 2002, 169.14) California (Sec. 1, Ch 493.28150, effective January 1999) and Utah (C. 41-6-52.7, 1998). Laser jammers are ESSENTIAL to total Ticket Prevention. Although most radar detectors also have great laser detection, the instant you detect laser, YOU ARE CLOCKED. A laser detection is nothing more than a "ticket notifier." To effectively defeat a laser shot, you need an effective laser jammer (I recommend Blinder X-treme or Antilaser) so you have time to slow down. Laser absorbing coatings/materials also help greatly. VEIL and Lasershield both work fairly well in conjunction with a laser jammer.

Scanners - It is LEGAL to own a scanner, tuned for police frequencies or not, in ALL 50 STATES. In fact, if you go to your local Radio Shack, you'll see they are being sold along with big, THICK books that list frequencies for police, businesses, media outlets etc. It is perfectly legal to own/operate a scanner anywhere, as long as you are not disturbing the public (movie theater, etc.).

I take great offense that you accused me of "skirting the law." I have not skirted the law AT ALL, sir. I use my radar detectors/laser jammers to avoid ILLEGAL speedtraps. You'd be surprised how many illegal speedtraps are out there, especially in the evening hours. For instance, did you know it's illegal for a LEO in the state of NJ to sit on the side of the road clocking motorists without running lights? It's called entrapment and public endangerment. Officers in NJ are taught this while being trained, but no one follows the rules. 95% of the nighttime speedtraps out there are run by "dark" cars, or police cars without any lights on whatsoever, making most of NJ's speedtraps 100% illegal. Of course, proving this in court is nearly impossible, unless you have multiple witnesses. Thus, my need for a radar detector/laser jammer is born.

Okay, back to topic. It is impossible for the '05 Mustang GT's fog lights to "glare" into another driver's eyes. The fog lights are pointed at a DOWNWARD angle, moreso than a normal headlight's angle. The only way for these light to glare into another driver's eyes would be if the driver was under them, say if you were coming over a steep hill and they were coming up the incline. This effect would only last for the one or two seconds that your vehicle crested the top of the hill. Of course, your headlights would also be in their line of sight, "blinding" them as well. Should you turn off your headlights as well, since they are more powerful? I think the answer's obvious. In fact, this same scenario would play out for ANY vehicle on the road. It's impossible to avoid.

It is legal to operate your STOCK fog/running lights in conjunction with your headlights at ANY TIME in 49 states. The state of Minnesota has a law that limits your use of fogs to when conditions permit. Every other state in the COUNTRY permits the use of, and even ENCOURAGES (see daytime running lights), using your running/fog lights in conjunction with your headlights. Where you start to get onto legal thin ice is when you have MODIFIED lights on your car. Then it's up to a judge/jury to decide whether or not the lights are acceptable. If you have modified lights, I would advise that you listen to the officer.

HastaLaVista

Trimming some text...

You don't have to live in VA, if you're just driving through it you must turn off your detector. Same for DC.No, it isn't. It's legal to own, but it many states it is general illegal to operate one while mobile (Just as Big-Foot said), unless you fall into a select group who has valid reason and/or is licensed to do so.

Really? So your detector can detect whether or not the officer's car has its running lights on and only alerts you if the lights are off? Amazing!
Please stop the "I only use it to avoid illegal speedtraps". Let's be honest, you use it to avoid all speed detection efforts, legal or otherwise. You use it to speed.

You text discussion how fog lights are legal is irrelevant as nobody has said they're not legal.

Big-Foot

OBleedingMe - I think that if you put just a smidgen of the energy into trying to get along with the law and your fellow motorist that you have put into your 4 mile long response and 2 mile long PM you sent - you'd be far better off in the long run..

If you really want to know what's legal and what's not in the state of Minnesota, you really need to get your information from here: http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/ or http://www.leg.state.mn.us/leg/statutes.asp rather than from some site that claims they've done all the homework for you..

Of particular interest of the website links I posted above is one that is in direct contradiction to what you posted:
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/169/14.html
which says Subd. 12. Radar jammer. For purposes of this section, "radar jammer" means any instrument, device, or equipment designed or intended for use with a vehicle or otherwise to jam or interfere in any manner with a speed-measuring device operated by a peace officer.

No person shall sell, offer for sale, use, or possess any radar jammer in this state."
This sort of tells me that I can't legally own one let alone use one.. Regardless of what some "other" website might say..

Before you dive into 169.xx in search of lighting law - remember that there are many statues some of which play off of others and some that may contradict others. The bottom line is that it is the Public Commissioner's Office that holds the trump card and can (and has) provided "Clarification" to statutes in a court of law. Those clarifications in many cases are not necessarily backed by published statutes. In other words - if they want you to be guilty, you will be guilty. You're, of course, free to try and suit them to prove your point and your case. Point in fact, they encourage it!

I won't argue the subject any more with you as it is pointless. You seem to have an extraordinary amount of energy which you have demonstrated that you will use to try and prove an entirely baseless point.
I - Myself, on the other hand, have better things to do..

Edit - I see now that you went back and editted your post in regard to MN Law after I had started my response. Glad you thought better of it..

OBleedingMe

I think any moron would know that. Sorry, but to point that out is just redundant.

Really?? I'll admit that I haven't researched the legalities of scanner usage as feverently as radar/laser detectors/jammers. I'll have to do some more research on this. But even if this is true, this is something would be AWFULLY hard to get caught at. All you have to do is turn off the scanner before a cop can hear it.

Being that I have never encountered a legal speedtrap in the state of NJ, I think I can safely say I use my radar detector to avoid illegal speedtraps.

The existance of speed limits are another debate for another day. In fact, I started a thread not too long ago on speed limits and their effectiveness here: Speed Limits - Do They Save or Take Lives? Please feel free to post your opinions!

Thank you for proving my point! They're LEGAL! Therefore, unless you live in Minnesota and it's not foggy/misty, an officer has NO RIGHT to force you to turn off your fogs. There are only two possible reasons for an officer to ask you to turn off your '05 Mustang GT's fogs (in order of likely hood):

1. Misinterpretation. The unusual light configuration of the '05 Mustang GT gives the officer a false impression that you have your brights on. Once you have demonstrated that your brights are NOT on, the issue should be cleared up.

2. Jealously, bull-headedness, authority complex, or just a plain bad attitude. None of those reasons gives the officer the right to force you to turn off your fogs.

calvin84

^Werd

OBleedingMe

Big-Foot, my man, did you even READ what I sent you!? I stated in the post in this thread and in my PM to you that radar jammers are: "100% ILLEGAL in all 50 states. Although it is legal to own one, it is a FEDERAL OFFENSE to operate one, punishable with a $10,000 fine and up to 1 year in jail. With great radar detectors (like the Escort Passport 8500 X50 and the Valentine 1) giving you a detection range of nearly 2.5 miles of any cop running radar, radar jammers are not needed. Don't buy one."

RADAR JAMMERS ARE ILLEGAL IN ALL 50 STATES! I said it's not worth it to purchase a radar jammer because the effective range of quality radar detectors negates their need! Jesus, man... foot in mouth again!

As for time on my hands, I do have some... waiting for my g/f to show up. Just a bit bored today, lol.

HastaLaVista

Actually, it isn't. Some state laws can be carried into other states you're travelling through. For example, in Florida you're not required to have a front plate. If you drive a Florida registered car through another state that does require a front plate, you cannot get a ticket for lack of one. That's an extreme example, but someone living in a state and driving through that state don't always need to heed the same laws. Someone may think something similar applies to radar detectors.

Then you shouldn't go spouting off in ignorance, like you accused someone else of doing.Ah, the "it isn't illegal if you don't get caught" approach.
Yes, there's not one single instance of legal speed enforcement activity in all of NJ. Right.
You put up a strawman and knocked it down, there was no point to prove. Nobody said they were not legal. What was said it wasn't a fight worth fighting.

Same as this one has become. If you're this bullheaded with an officer I can see you going to court over two lights on your car. In the end you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you were right, after wasting your time, the officer's time, the court's time, and the money, both yours and other people's, needed to do it all.

Or you can drive away knowing you're right and forget about it in ten minutes.

OBleedingMe

In my evening hours of driving, I have not encountered one officer with his running lights on while clocking motorists. That is required by NJ law. I did not say that there was not one single instance of legal speed enforcement activity in all of NJ. You put words in my mouth. I said I, myself, have not encountered a legal speedtrap in NJ.

I never said I didn't do any research on scanners. I said its legal to own/operate one. Whether or not I can use it in my car, I was fairly sure you could. The laws may vary from state to state. In my own experience, I have been stopped by officers at drunk driving/seatbelt checkpoints with mine blaring and never got a citation for it.

No one said the right path was the easy one, HastaLaVista.

I don't think refusing to obey a law that DOES NOT EXIST in my state is being bullheaded. However, I do consider an officer insisting my fogs are brights when it has been demonstrated they are NOT, bullheaded. If the officer knowingly writes me a false citation, then it is THAT OFFICER that is WASTING the court's valuable time and money, not me.

PS Writing a knowingly false citation with intent to harass a citizen is a criminal offense.

HastaLaVista

What NJ law probably says is "plain sight", if it says anything of that nature at all. Some states require plain sight, some don't, please quote the section of NJ traffic law that states police must have their running lights on at night while running radar.

In this case it is. But feel free to go to court to fight for the millions of oppressed people who are told at toll booths to turn off their fog lights.

V10

Urban legand that is not true.
Go read about it on Snopes.

Boltzman

Lets face it, probably everyone of us with a mustang speeds at some point in time hoping we don't get caught. If they say they never do,they are probably lying.just my .02

slammer223

What's the name of that song "I Can't Drive 55" ?

Enfynet

^ Yeah, speeding seems to happen by accident. That's why anti-speeding (aka cruise) control is standard.

ZGarske01

i get flashed all the time when i drive.. i just simply repay them with a flash back