Bad news for future SEs?
9/19/04, 08:06 PM
#21
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hmm, this looks like it might turn into another "hydro-powered stang" thread. lol. loox like its time to dig up old arguments and re-crush bad ideas.
grabbergreen you have a good point . Earth aint dying anytime soon. but if we don't take care of it, WE will.
so what if we did dig up alaska and found more oil than we'd ever seen think. we'd have bigger engines for both ars and suvz. don't get me wrong, i love big blocks for stangs as much as the next guy/gal and all but what about that thing called polution. if we keep using oil the way we do now, eventually the air everywhere on the planet would be worse than LA. and if we struck oil en masse, we'd be tempted to consume it even more heavily right? then what? even more polution then you've ever imagined. i know there are arguments contradicting the whole hole in the ozone so i won't bring that up.
now i think all of us value our families, friends and health more than an endless or near endless supply of oil for our cars.
c'mon guys, think about the future.
grabbergreen you have a good point . Earth aint dying anytime soon. but if we don't take care of it, WE will.
so what if we did dig up alaska and found more oil than we'd ever seen think. we'd have bigger engines for both ars and suvz. don't get me wrong, i love big blocks for stangs as much as the next guy/gal and all but what about that thing called polution. if we keep using oil the way we do now, eventually the air everywhere on the planet would be worse than LA. and if we struck oil en masse, we'd be tempted to consume it even more heavily right? then what? even more polution then you've ever imagined. i know there are arguments contradicting the whole hole in the ozone so i won't bring that up.
now i think all of us value our families, friends and health more than an endless or near endless supply of oil for our cars.
c'mon guys, think about the future.
9/19/04, 08:24 PM
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Wasn't there an oil crisis in the '70s? And the '80s? Seems like every time there's an oil "crisis," car companies try to compensate and the public suffers. It hasn't happened yet, as technology now allows the use of hybrid cars. But, 20-30 years ago, most cars were economical 4-bangers built solely for the purpose of good gas mileage. And they were some of the most boring vehicles ever produced.
I agree. I think caribou, if they could speak, would say to us, "it's about time," if we were to start utilizing the petroleum we have in Alaska. It only makes sense, and if it weren't for a certain political party whose name rhymes with blemocratic, we could tap into those fields and ease the "crisis" for us.
I agree. I think caribou, if they could speak, would say to us, "it's about time," if we were to start utilizing the petroleum we have in Alaska. It only makes sense, and if it weren't for a certain political party whose name rhymes with blemocratic, we could tap into those fields and ease the "crisis" for us.
9/19/04, 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by autothing@September 19, 2004, 8:14 PM
I have officially solved all Future fuel shortages and problems! The only negative is that there will be fewer customers overall...
I have officially solved all Future fuel shortages and problems! The only negative is that there will be fewer customers overall...
9/19/04, 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Iven@September 19, 2004, 8:27 PM
Wasn't there an oil crisis in the '70s? And the '80s? Seems like every time there's an oil "crisis," car companies try to compensate and the public suffers. It hasn't happened yet, as technology now allows the use of hybrid cars. But, 20-30 years ago, most cars were economical 4-bangers built solely for the purpose of good gas mileage. And they were some of the most boring vehicles ever produced.
I agree. I think caribou, if they could speak, would say to us, "it's about time," if we were to start utilizing the petroleum we have in Alaska. It only makes sense, and if it weren't for a certain political party whose name rhymes with blemocratic, we could tap into those fields and ease the "crisis" for us.
Wasn't there an oil crisis in the '70s? And the '80s? Seems like every time there's an oil "crisis," car companies try to compensate and the public suffers. It hasn't happened yet, as technology now allows the use of hybrid cars. But, 20-30 years ago, most cars were economical 4-bangers built solely for the purpose of good gas mileage. And they were some of the most boring vehicles ever produced.
I agree. I think caribou, if they could speak, would say to us, "it's about time," if we were to start utilizing the petroleum we have in Alaska. It only makes sense, and if it weren't for a certain political party whose name rhymes with blemocratic, we could tap into those fields and ease the "crisis" for us.
At least that's what my father used to say when he'd get back from USMC cold weather training up in Alaska back during the 80's. If I recall correctly, there's a few decades worth of oil up there, enough for us to last through a world war, etc. If it ever came to that.
Alaska was a huge Soviet target back then.
We do sell some crude pumped out of Alaska to nations like Japan for a lot more than the $40+ USD we pay.
9/19/04, 08:44 PM
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RENEWABLE OIL
http://www.changingworldtech.com./home.html
And you're acting like a liberal John Kerry tree hugger, why?
http://www.changingworldtech.com./home.html
And you're acting like a liberal John Kerry tree hugger, why?
9/19/04, 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by wantan05@September 19, 2004, 12:32 PM
Maybe we should start looking for other sources of fuel instead of tearing up Alaska. People shouldn't spend their time fighting for or against it they should go do some research and figure out something else to power our vehicles.
Maybe we should start looking for other sources of fuel instead of tearing up Alaska. People shouldn't spend their time fighting for or against it they should go do some research and figure out something else to power our vehicles.
LOL, don't get mad, just breakin your chops a little!
9/19/04, 08:49 PM
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you guys are still missing the polution part. dunno about you guys but Carbon Monoxide isn't my favorite candle scent.
i seriously think more money should be spent on alternative fuel research. especially hydrogen. i know alot of ppl out there are gonna say hydrogen isn't practical and that it needs more energy than it releases just to seperate it from water, but this is why we need to research it. if we can find a practical way to use the most abundant element in the universe, we'll be set for life. then we can get those monstrous blocks because hydrogen will have ultra low (if not, non existent) emissions. and because of it's amazingly high amounts of it in the universe, it'll be dirt cheap. and finnaly think about this: if we were able to produce V8s with no cares about fuel costs, what will happen to the ricers and fourbangers? gone with the gasoline. i think we'd all love a world without ricers.
the only downisde to this alternative fuel source is that it may take a while to be able to properly extract it. but its possible, i mean c'mon, ppl in 1492 didnt think that eventually they'd be able to make a trip to the "new world" in a matter of hours by flying through the air. just cuz something is inconceiveable to us now, doesnt mean it will always be that way.
i seriously think more money should be spent on alternative fuel research. especially hydrogen. i know alot of ppl out there are gonna say hydrogen isn't practical and that it needs more energy than it releases just to seperate it from water, but this is why we need to research it. if we can find a practical way to use the most abundant element in the universe, we'll be set for life. then we can get those monstrous blocks because hydrogen will have ultra low (if not, non existent) emissions. and because of it's amazingly high amounts of it in the universe, it'll be dirt cheap. and finnaly think about this: if we were able to produce V8s with no cares about fuel costs, what will happen to the ricers and fourbangers? gone with the gasoline. i think we'd all love a world without ricers.
the only downisde to this alternative fuel source is that it may take a while to be able to properly extract it. but its possible, i mean c'mon, ppl in 1492 didnt think that eventually they'd be able to make a trip to the "new world" in a matter of hours by flying through the air. just cuz something is inconceiveable to us now, doesnt mean it will always be that way.
9/19/04, 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by Mach One@September 19, 2004, 10:52 AM
It would make sense to me that as we near closer to running out of fossil fuels, that the coming years will not yeild high horsepower SEs with crazy displacements. There just won't be room for 5.4L gas guzzling v8s soon...in 20 years we could all be driving hydrogen-powered stangs (assuming they make production cheaper) What do you all think?
It would make sense to me that as we near closer to running out of fossil fuels, that the coming years will not yeild high horsepower SEs with crazy displacements. There just won't be room for 5.4L gas guzzling v8s soon...in 20 years we could all be driving hydrogen-powered stangs (assuming they make production cheaper) What do you all think?
9/19/04, 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by future9er24@September 19, 2004, 6:52 PM
you guys are still missing the polution part. dunno about you guys but Carbon Monoxide isn't my favorite candle scent.
you guys are still missing the polution part. dunno about you guys but Carbon Monoxide isn't my favorite candle scent.
. And catalytic converters are getting better every year, and the engines themselves get better ever year. If you want to go attack something, take a hard look at your lawn mower sometime -- it produces 100 times as much pollution as any car.Dave
9/19/04, 08:56 PM
#32
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Originally posted by future9er24@September 20, 2004, 2:52 AM
you guys are still missing the polution part. dunno about you guys but Carbon Monoxide isn't my favorite candle scent.
i seriously think more money should be spent on alternative fuel research. especially hydrogen. i know alot of ppl out there are gonna say hydrogen isn't practical and that it needs more energy than it releases just to seperate it from water, but this is why we need to research it. if we can find a practical way to use the most abundant element in the universe, we'll be set for life. then we can get those monstrous blocks because hydrogen will have ultra low (if not, non existent) emissions. and because of it's amazingly high amounts of it in the universe, it'll be dirt cheap. and finnaly think about this: if we were able to produce V8s with no cares about fuel costs, what will happen to the ricers and fourbangers? gone with the gasoline. i think we'd all love a world without ricers.
the only downisde to this alternative fuel source is that it may take a while to be able to properly extract it. but its possible, i mean c'mon, ppl in 1492 didnt think that eventually they'd be able to make a trip to the "new world" in a matter of hours by flying through the air. just cuz something is inconceiveable to us now, doesnt mean it will always be that way.
you guys are still missing the polution part. dunno about you guys but Carbon Monoxide isn't my favorite candle scent.
i seriously think more money should be spent on alternative fuel research. especially hydrogen. i know alot of ppl out there are gonna say hydrogen isn't practical and that it needs more energy than it releases just to seperate it from water, but this is why we need to research it. if we can find a practical way to use the most abundant element in the universe, we'll be set for life. then we can get those monstrous blocks because hydrogen will have ultra low (if not, non existent) emissions. and because of it's amazingly high amounts of it in the universe, it'll be dirt cheap. and finnaly think about this: if we were able to produce V8s with no cares about fuel costs, what will happen to the ricers and fourbangers? gone with the gasoline. i think we'd all love a world without ricers.
the only downisde to this alternative fuel source is that it may take a while to be able to properly extract it. but its possible, i mean c'mon, ppl in 1492 didnt think that eventually they'd be able to make a trip to the "new world" in a matter of hours by flying through the air. just cuz something is inconceiveable to us now, doesnt mean it will always be that way.
9/19/04, 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by future9er24@September 19, 2004, 8:52 PM
you guys are still missing the polution part. dunno about you guys but Carbon Monoxide isn't my favorite candle scent.
i seriously think more money should be spent on alternative fuel research. especially hydrogen. i know alot of ppl out there are gonna say hydrogen isn't practical and that it needs more energy than it releases just to seperate it from water, but this is why we need to research it. if we can find a practical way to use the most abundant element in the universe, we'll be set for life. then we can get those monstrous blocks because hydrogen will have ultra low (if not, non existent) emissions. and because of it's amazingly high amounts of it in the universe, it'll be dirt cheap. and finnaly think about this: if we were able to produce V8s with no cares about fuel costs, what will happen to the ricers and fourbangers? gone with the gasoline. i think we'd all love a world without ricers.
the only downisde to this alternative fuel source is that it may take a while to be able to properly extract it. but its possible, i mean c'mon, ppl in 1492 didnt think that eventually they'd be able to make a trip to the "new world" in a matter of hours by flying through the air. just cuz something is inconceiveable to us now, doesnt mean it will always be that way.
you guys are still missing the polution part. dunno about you guys but Carbon Monoxide isn't my favorite candle scent.
i seriously think more money should be spent on alternative fuel research. especially hydrogen. i know alot of ppl out there are gonna say hydrogen isn't practical and that it needs more energy than it releases just to seperate it from water, but this is why we need to research it. if we can find a practical way to use the most abundant element in the universe, we'll be set for life. then we can get those monstrous blocks because hydrogen will have ultra low (if not, non existent) emissions. and because of it's amazingly high amounts of it in the universe, it'll be dirt cheap. and finnaly think about this: if we were able to produce V8s with no cares about fuel costs, what will happen to the ricers and fourbangers? gone with the gasoline. i think we'd all love a world without ricers.
the only downisde to this alternative fuel source is that it may take a while to be able to properly extract it. but its possible, i mean c'mon, ppl in 1492 didnt think that eventually they'd be able to make a trip to the "new world" in a matter of hours by flying through the air. just cuz something is inconceiveable to us now, doesnt mean it will always be that way.
http://media.ford.com/mazda/article_displa...rticle_id=17134
It's sad there's as much research into these powerplants as there could be.
...was car choice #2, until I found out about the cold start problems it has...and I saw the final production pics of the GT.
9/19/04, 09:13 PM
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mgm7 i saw the thing about the RX-8. it was also mentioned in the older 05 thred about a the whole hydro stang idea.
and Stevenj, first, i did check ur link out and it is pretty interesting and i'm still in the process of reading it all, i'll give you that.
and while you do have a point that emissions are becoming lower, but there still are emissions aren't there? and the polution from the past aint going anywhere. it just keeps adding. the rate it increases may be lower now, but it is still increasing.
and about the coal powerplants n stuff.i never said that i thought cars made more polution that powerplants anyway. i was just getting to that. hydrogen would still be better cuz u could use it in powerplants as well as in cars. assuming of course, that we devote more $$ to hydrgen technology development, .
and finnaly Hairycanary, i have a push mower lol.
one last thing: PLEEEEEAAAASE dont bring kerry, bush or any politician into this discussion. frankly all politicians **** me off.
and Stevenj, first, i did check ur link out and it is pretty interesting and i'm still in the process of reading it all, i'll give you that.
and while you do have a point that emissions are becoming lower, but there still are emissions aren't there? and the polution from the past aint going anywhere. it just keeps adding. the rate it increases may be lower now, but it is still increasing.
and about the coal powerplants n stuff.i never said that i thought cars made more polution that powerplants anyway. i was just getting to that. hydrogen would still be better cuz u could use it in powerplants as well as in cars. assuming of course, that we devote more $$ to hydrgen technology development, .
and finnaly Hairycanary, i have a push mower lol.
one last thing: PLEEEEEAAAASE dont bring kerry, bush or any politician into this discussion. frankly all politicians **** me off.
9/19/04, 09:42 PM
#35
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Ok, I think I'll weigh in. 'Cause it's gonna be SOO much fun...
Something to make you go 'hmm...'
Notice how some of those who would tell us that "we're too wasteful/ polluting/ gonna use it up/ change to hydrogen/ etc. /et. al." are also the ones who want a GT or drive a big truck? Yeah, like THOSE are gas/diesel sippers and non-polluters... You can find out who by checking the info on the left.
Now, as far as running out, this has been said before, and will be said again. Just like eggs are bad/good/bad/good for you. I just ignored it and ate eggs when I wanted, and felt vindicated when it was OK to eat them! Oil is around, it's just whether we wanna get it or not, and some have mentioned the renewed oil thing. That's freaky, but good news.
As far as drilling in AK, absolutely. The wildlife is not gonna be hurt, they'll just move around it. We're way better at it, have learned much in the years since Exxon Valdez, it will put it back the way it was when done. Besides, you don't have to be directly over the oil field, you can be on the side of it and drill sideways into it.
Side note on oil thing: Are you going to tell me it's better to be dependent on someone else's whims, those who control the oil flow and pricing? And by the way, Americans don't depend on Arab oil, per se, but in reality, a few countries, a large part of which is Venuzuelan oil, and let me tell you, THERE's a place I can wager my future on, and there's NO wildlife around there either... Right.
Changing from gas/diesel is not ever going to happen. UNTIL it runs out OR it becomes so cheap to get off oil as to be ridiculous not to, AND things that have to be solved are: Storage on the vehicle; pollution control of the new substance, if any; delivery to the vehicle (which means conversions of gas stations); and finally, but most importantly, safety of the storage of said substance, like how does it react when a car is wrecked?
I don't know about any one else, but methanol that burns invisibly and is very volatile sounds pretty scary to be put in a car that could have a wreck. Flambe on wheels. Or hasn't anyone seen a CART/IRL/Champ car race? Fun to watch them in organized panic, throwing water around.
Hydrogen is iffy. Its storage on the car alone is a problem. Ditto with propane/butane/? Any gasified substance is just a problem to store, unless you like filling up every 150 miles. Driving a subcompact. A Mustang? Right.
Other means and substances have been mused about, for years, but aren't around in any great quantity. Gee, I wonder why that might be? Could it be cost/complexity versus the standard?
Finally, this whole argument is moot. Until we ALL swear off gas/diesel, nothing changes. I'm not, are you? I don't see anyone of the above mentioned "huggers" (and I'm saying that kindly) saying their cars are or are going to be anything small and economical, much less alternative or hybrid. But that would make sense, we're on a Mustang site, after all!
As to the question that this started with, no bad news. There WILL be SEs. They're going to happen, and they'll be liked. It's ok, you can relax about it.
Something to make you go 'hmm...'
Notice how some of those who would tell us that "we're too wasteful/ polluting/ gonna use it up/ change to hydrogen/ etc. /et. al." are also the ones who want a GT or drive a big truck? Yeah, like THOSE are gas/diesel sippers and non-polluters... You can find out who by checking the info on the left.
Now, as far as running out, this has been said before, and will be said again. Just like eggs are bad/good/bad/good for you. I just ignored it and ate eggs when I wanted, and felt vindicated when it was OK to eat them! Oil is around, it's just whether we wanna get it or not, and some have mentioned the renewed oil thing. That's freaky, but good news.
As far as drilling in AK, absolutely. The wildlife is not gonna be hurt, they'll just move around it. We're way better at it, have learned much in the years since Exxon Valdez, it will put it back the way it was when done. Besides, you don't have to be directly over the oil field, you can be on the side of it and drill sideways into it.
Side note on oil thing: Are you going to tell me it's better to be dependent on someone else's whims, those who control the oil flow and pricing? And by the way, Americans don't depend on Arab oil, per se, but in reality, a few countries, a large part of which is Venuzuelan oil, and let me tell you, THERE's a place I can wager my future on, and there's NO wildlife around there either... Right.
Changing from gas/diesel is not ever going to happen. UNTIL it runs out OR it becomes so cheap to get off oil as to be ridiculous not to, AND things that have to be solved are: Storage on the vehicle; pollution control of the new substance, if any; delivery to the vehicle (which means conversions of gas stations); and finally, but most importantly, safety of the storage of said substance, like how does it react when a car is wrecked?
I don't know about any one else, but methanol that burns invisibly and is very volatile sounds pretty scary to be put in a car that could have a wreck. Flambe on wheels. Or hasn't anyone seen a CART/IRL/Champ car race? Fun to watch them in organized panic, throwing water around.
Hydrogen is iffy. Its storage on the car alone is a problem. Ditto with propane/butane/? Any gasified substance is just a problem to store, unless you like filling up every 150 miles. Driving a subcompact. A Mustang? Right.
Other means and substances have been mused about, for years, but aren't around in any great quantity. Gee, I wonder why that might be? Could it be cost/complexity versus the standard?
Finally, this whole argument is moot. Until we ALL swear off gas/diesel, nothing changes. I'm not, are you? I don't see anyone of the above mentioned "huggers" (and I'm saying that kindly) saying their cars are or are going to be anything small and economical, much less alternative or hybrid. But that would make sense, we're on a Mustang site, after all!
As to the question that this started with, no bad news. There WILL be SEs. They're going to happen, and they'll be liked. It's ok, you can relax about it.
9/19/04, 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by houtex@September 19, 2004, 9:45 PM
Something to make you go 'hmm...'
Notice how some of those who would tell us that "we're too wasteful/ polluting/ gonna use it up/ change to hydrogen/ etc. /et. al." are also the ones who want a GT or drive a big truck? Yeah, like THOSE are gas/diesel sippers and non-polluters... You can find out who by checking the info on the left.
Something to make you go 'hmm...'
Notice how some of those who would tell us that "we're too wasteful/ polluting/ gonna use it up/ change to hydrogen/ etc. /et. al." are also the ones who want a GT or drive a big truck? Yeah, like THOSE are gas/diesel sippers and non-polluters... You can find out who by checking the info on the left.
9/19/04, 09:57 PM
#39
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Now, honestly, Dan. You think it'll take that long?
Well, the way I see it, Kerry's got the longer reach, but Bush has got that singleminded gumption. I'm thinkin' that it's gonna be a knock down, drag out, exciting fight to the finish, and a judges decision will have to decide it.
Oh, wait. OH, you meant that political thing. Something about presidential election? Oh. Well, I think it'd be a fun fight in the ring anyway...
Well, the way I see it, Kerry's got the longer reach, but Bush has got that singleminded gumption. I'm thinkin' that it's gonna be a knock down, drag out, exciting fight to the finish, and a judges decision will have to decide it.
Oh, wait. OH, you meant that political thing. Something about presidential election? Oh. Well, I think it'd be a fun fight in the ring anyway...
9/19/04, 10:13 PM
#40
Legacy TMS Member
Arin:
GOTCHA!!! Reel him in!! (zzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZ goes the fishin' reel...)
Now, I just meant it'd make you go 'Hmm..'. Something to think about eh? But you see that a lot, honestly. "YOU need to stop using fuel" says the eco-man when he get into his SUV. Of course I wouldn't deny you your pleasure. Get you a GT.
It's kinda like the Baldwin/Streisand thing, though, when they said "If Bush gets elected, I'm moving out of the States!" and promptly didn't. I always liked them for their convictions...
Now, believe it or not, I'm not saying it's NEVER going to happen. Heck I wish it would, I'd love for me to be able to dump beer and banana skins and such into Mr. Fusion and let it provide me with my car's power.
(Which leads me to ask, just WHO was drinkin' only half the beer, then throwing it away, in the cleaned up McFly family? Like those cleaned up McFlies would be drinkin' Miller... (nuthin' wrong with Miller, BTW, but when you can get wine and such... Just sayin')
I'm just saying that given the constraints, complexity, economics, and distribution and safety issues, it's really really hard to do and/or justify any other way of locomotion. At this time. The Prius is a good step in the right direction, but it still requires gas, right?
The dream of hydrogen for cars, again, is very hard to do. We're just not there yet. And unless the government is going to step in and make the developments happen (like they did for aircraft and weapons) then it's just not gonna get here easily.
ALL of this can be Googled. And you'll also see plenty of pluses and minuses for any of it. I'm thinkin' this is my last post on this here topic, since that can be done instead.
Again, SE worries? Don't. They're comin' and it will be gooooood.
GOTCHA!!! Reel him in!! (zzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZ goes the fishin' reel...)
Now, I just meant it'd make you go 'Hmm..'. Something to think about eh? But you see that a lot, honestly. "YOU need to stop using fuel" says the eco-man when he get into his SUV. Of course I wouldn't deny you your pleasure. Get you a GT.
It's kinda like the Baldwin/Streisand thing, though, when they said "If Bush gets elected, I'm moving out of the States!" and promptly didn't. I always liked them for their convictions...
Now, believe it or not, I'm not saying it's NEVER going to happen. Heck I wish it would, I'd love for me to be able to dump beer and banana skins and such into Mr. Fusion and let it provide me with my car's power.
(Which leads me to ask, just WHO was drinkin' only half the beer, then throwing it away, in the cleaned up McFly family? Like those cleaned up McFlies would be drinkin' Miller... (nuthin' wrong with Miller, BTW, but when you can get wine and such... Just sayin')
I'm just saying that given the constraints, complexity, economics, and distribution and safety issues, it's really really hard to do and/or justify any other way of locomotion. At this time. The Prius is a good step in the right direction, but it still requires gas, right?
The dream of hydrogen for cars, again, is very hard to do. We're just not there yet. And unless the government is going to step in and make the developments happen (like they did for aircraft and weapons) then it's just not gonna get here easily.
ALL of this can be Googled. And you'll also see plenty of pluses and minuses for any of it. I'm thinkin' this is my last post on this here topic, since that can be done instead.
Again, SE worries? Don't. They're comin' and it will be gooooood.