LMan

alright, X.......you called me out! B) So here's the "tech"

AFCO link: http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/afco...&ProductID=2503

my waterpump exits on the passenger side, thus this model. Theres the same model with the pipes reversed, if that what you want. As you can see, I ran the overflow hose over to the original side under the rad support.

Warning: to fit this one I 'trimmed' the edges ~ 1" on each side of my radiator opening with Ole Mr Grinder. This didnt bother me. If it bothers you, AFCO makes them in several smaller widths that will fit as-is. Call them for info...

Now, here the radiator installed, with my first "ribbed, fit-anything" upper hose....I apologize for the poor picture. Ugly but functional, kinda like the owner. Yeah, the godawful red hose has gotta go too I'll 'bling' it later, I suppose, when I get enough RoundTuits:




.....does this help?
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GLASS BUBBLERS

Maj.Malfunction

I,m truely thankful for all the feed back i,ve got...I ended up going with the fluidyne radiator through summit (there 15 minutes from my house). It,s a bolt in unit with correct outlets.At $425 it was expensive but i felt a very quality piece. I too have the edelbrock water pump and wanted to keep it.
My biggest concern is drilling or cutting my car..I try to avoid any modification that involves either. My 2 cents

StangerX

That's a huge help L. Thanks. Few more questions though:

1) Did you need to make any mods or do anything to your current setup to get that radiator to fit?

EDIT: You punk! You edited your post! LOL! What did you do to get bolt holes in it? Grind it out then make openings for the clips?

2) Do you know of any differences between the 66 and 67 setups? I can't think of any off the top of my head. I would imagine that the radiator openings and mount points are the same. That was a model change though, so anything is possible.

3) (kind of hand in hand with #1) did you have to get any special brackets or clips when you ordered it?

Let me know what you had to do to get this thing to fit. She looks a tad big, so that's why I ask.

I am running a C4, so I will have to get a seperate tranny cooler. I've been wanting to do that anyways. It's much more efficient. Anyways. Let me know what you did. Thanks for the pictures and the info. It's a huge HUGE help. I'm GLAD i called you out! Share that knowledge! LOL!

GT350Clone

Edjumicate me too guys...

What about the "direct-fit" Northern radiators for around $300??? How are they?

Anybody using the Griffin from www.streetortrack.com ($430)???

Wasn't there a Summit or Speedway radiator that had the correct outlets for <$200???

If I were shopping for one, I'd be looking for both outlets on the passenger side, and no cutting as well. And NO, I'm not interested in flex hoses or changing HO pumps. :nono:

LMan

X-Man: the two dark spots in the pic are the upper clips I made to hold it there. There are two lower clips on the bottom that do the same thing. Its flanged also, as you can see, if you want to mount it a different way.

Cloney: As I mentioned, there are narrower versions that would prob fit without any grinding...measure your space there and match up a radiator from the catalog if you like. IIRC, as another option, a radiator shop can swap the upper pipe from one side to the other for ~30-40.00 This was on a copper/brass one that I asked about a few years ago, so I dont know personally if they do it for aluminum ones If so, tho, 179+40 is still cheaper than 300-500 for those "other" radiators.

For the hose, the trick (which I still need to do, too much pondering, I guess) is to go to AutoZone and pick thru their preformed upper hose collection and find one that fits.....its a simple 2 90* turns, and there are hundreds of OEM upper hoses a lot more convoluted than that. Then it will look OEM!

But, I dont claim this is the best solution out there....just the least expensive way to get an alum radiator If its too shadetree for ya, thats cool by me! B)
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Easyvape.net

Mberglo

Let me be the party pooper, and say "Why not just get a new 3-core or 4-core radiator made to fit for under $200?"

Virginia Mustang has 4-cores for $195 and 3-cores for $130. What are you doing that requires more cooling than that?

You could even paint it silver if it impresses the kids at ChuckieCheese. B)

StangerX

I'm Kinda with you Cloney, but I'm also with L. I'm all about Hotrod. Being the youngest hotrod-minded person I have ever run into, I feel a need to keep the shadetree alive.

Dunno on this one though. That's a real tough one. I think I might look into getting a size that keeps me from cutting, but still needs some massaging to get in there. I'd DEFINATELY rather shadetree the thing and save the cash. Still, I like making it look professional. Guess we'll see. I still have a lot of time before I'm ready to commit. Lots more research to do.

Mberglo - LOL. Wish I could bud. I've got a 3 core stock in mine right now. It runs great on the highway, but if you sit still, that needle just rockets up. I also have about 5g tied up in the motor. Lots of Comp in the bottom and top end. Let's put it this way.... if I had aluminum heads, they would have melted ages ago.

I have to get this heating problem under control, and I've done about everything except adding a supplemental fan and going to aluminum. I like the supplimental fan idea, but I just don't think it will do enough. I would rather get the aluminum and KILL This problem once and for all.

I just can't drive my car in the hot southern summers thanks to the heating issue. Hopefully I can come up with some sort of make-shift solution. The other alternative is to talk to someone at AFCO and seeing if I can get that neck on the other side. Kinda like... gimme that one, just keep the neck on the other side. It may be a little something different, but I bet the price would still be cheap. Who knows.

I'll call them tomorrow and see what they say. I'll post my findings on here as soon as I find out. Props for the advice and the info L-meister.

Jay

Here is a more "bolt-in" approach: http://www.midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/alum...or_install.html

You may have trouble finding a same side in and out since these are designed as crossflow radiators.

BTW the aluminum is used as a weight savings advantage AND the tubes are much larger than your old stockers.

I'll look for better photos but here is my setup (that I was willing to cut/chop/weld for):

Mberglo

An empty steel radiator weighs about 10 lbs. You could take the Skittles out of your pocket and save as much weight.

Unless you've increased all the water passageways in the engine, I don't see that it matters what size hosenecks you have on the radiator.

Ambulances, cop cars, taxis all run with stock steel radiators. If you've got a 3-core and you still have heat problems, I'd look elsewhere for the problem. Perhaps your fan is wrong for the application, or maybe your thermostat is rated too high or defective.

Unless you're running 6000 rpm for 20 minutes straight (as a racecar does), I just don't see the point.

Jay

Mber will probably pizz on the electric fan concept next. But let's think this through a little further... if I have to go to 3 rows or 4 rows in the stock setup I'm getting closer and closer to the waterpump. When you drop a 351W in the early cars you are battling for space here and there are few if any suitable electric fans that can fit in this space with a 4 row setup.

Don't try to argue that an electric fan serves no purpose here... proven time and time again power saver.

If you are bolting stock replaement parts into your car it's always "easy" ... the kids with the imports get picked on for only using bolt-on / glue-on parts yes?

Mberglo

I love a good technical debate, and Jay makes more than a worthy opponent.

I didn't say aluminum radiators don't work better. Aluminum disapates heat faster than steel, and won't rust. Therefore aluminum is a better material from which to make radiators. Electric fans also pass the physics test. I just find it interesting that folks think they NEED aluminum radiators, aluminum waterpumps, etc. on their streetdriven car, and will go to great lengths and expense to cut, grind, and fabricate parts just to make it work. If the 4-core won't fit, well that's another story.

And we make fun of ricers not because it's all simple bolt-on, but because it's totally unneccesary and doesn't add real functionality. Vendors like Summit are there to support RACE cars. The rest of us who are buying these parts to go to Dairy Queen Cruise-In are just wannabes, and are no better than the ricers who install carbon fiber hoods on their momma's Saturn. Afterall, carbon fiber is lighter and stronger than the hood they removed.

By the way, I saw a neat test of K&N filters done in an old issue of 5.0. They tested a dirty K&N vs. a new paper filter vs. a new K&N. They measured horsepower versus mph, and the three lines overlaid one another exactly until 100mph. At that point, the three diverged with the new K&N on top, but the three lines never varied by more than 2hp. Hardly a salespitch for a $50 filter.

Jay

You can (and I do) run high compression on a street car, every little thing you can do to bring the operating temperature down at that point is worthwhile. Very similar in weight savings... it benefits a street car as much as a racecar given todays cost of operation (FUEL).

This is like poo-pooing a 5 speed upgrade because "you only need 3 gears to get to Dairy Queen". It does not take much more money or effort to install improvements while you are at it.

I'm not ruling out show either, show AND go is what most people are after here anyway.

Interesting study on the K&N... got links? Another mag just did a similar test with no filter vs. several other setups including using a stub stack and those newer filter tops. Don't have it handy but I could sum it up later if there's interest.

CantedValve

Hey man... you forget my radiator adaptation! I dropped mine in with *gasp* STOCK BRACKETRY!!!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jcmeyer5/rad...r/radiator.html

I have since junked the filter and shrinky clamps after the filter created too much upper hose pressure, and the shrinky clamps couldnt handle it (darn YOU CLONEY!!)

LMan

I think there's general agreement that all else being equal, an aluminum radiator is superior to a copper/brass one.

Now, given that, if the choice was (as it used to be) between a $400-600.00 aluminum radiator and a $125-$200 stock one, I would agree that for 99.99% of users out there, the aluminum's advantages aren't worth it.

But now you can basically get an aluminum radiator for the same cost as brass (+/- 25 bux or so). In most cases they can be fitted without serious surgery, if you look into the catalogs carefully enough. So why not?
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Small **** live

Mberglo

I'll see if I can scan the K&N article and post it. It's in an old 5.0 rag someone gave me.

I guess it's the analyst in me. I test and evaluate complex systems for a living, so I don't give anything the benefit of the doubt. I like to see realworld graphs and numbers.

It's easy to spend all your money on the latest/greatest, but if you're not operating in "the zone" you may never see the benefit. That makes the cost/benefit ratio even worse than the ugly monster it started out as.

I recently learned how easy it was to "tune" a dyno. Heard about an operator who would love to crank his dyno and give BoyCivic 300hp. Now I'm even doubting the graphs.

Oh yea, copper, not steel. What was I thinking? :bang:

Interesting FACTS:
Copper thermal conductivity = 390 W/mK
Aluminum thermal conductivity = 236 W/mK

Aluminum weighs 1/3 as much as Copper.

Scrap copper is worth $1.02 per pound.
Scrap aluminum is worth $0.71 per pound.

Interesting CONCLUSIONS: Aluminum radiator is cheaper to make, weighs less, and cools almost as good as a copper radiator.

Now go take on the day.

BLAKE

Man are you hard to argue with. :scratch:

Jay

I know you are looking for numbers and comparisons. So here are two papers full of info for you to chew on... the real measurement you are after is Heat Transfer per Unit Mass. And the basic finding is that the copper unit can rival the aluminum unit IF the fins are properly designed and this is an expensive process to do and manufacture (I don't think NPD etc. are stocking 3 and 4 cores of this nature).

Links:
http://www.adtherm.com/Files/Study_o...00_22_2400.pdf
http://www.adtherm.com/Files/Study_of_Heat_02_09.pdf

I think Al is 2/3 weight of Copper but that helps your stance :geek:

StangerX

I agree with you whole heartedly Mber. That's why I have done just about everything up to this point to KEEP from having to go to an Aluminum Radiator. I think most other folks would be wise to do the same. Still, I'm about out of options. I have:

1)Installed a higher capacity water pump
2)Installed 2 lower temp Thermostats
3)Installed a bigger Fan
4)Installed 3 new Radiators (ranging from light to heavy Duty)
5)Installed a Fan shroud
6)Tampered with different size spacers on the Fan
7)Sprung the lower radiator hose
8)Installed an oil cooler
9)Installed a new aluminum intake (better heat dissip.)
10)Experimented with different types of coolant

All of that has gotten me somewhat more stable, but I'm still not getting quite what I need. I did not pull new pistons when I built my motor. They looked good enough as they were. My only guess is that someone bored this mother over 60. That's all I can figure. This engine is Boss, and it doesn't behave like any other 302 I've come in contact with.

I have done everything to kill the heating problem except:
1)Clutch steel Fan
2)Supplimental cooling fans
3)Aluminum Radiator

No, Aluminum isn't for everyone. Lots of folks like it for show. I'd rather NOT do it. Yet, at this point, for me, I have no choice.

Thanks to all for the links, pics and info. I'm going to look into all of that some more and chew on it.

I didn't call AFCO today. I'll have to try them another day. Thanks again all. I'll post up what I hear from AFCO when I DO manage to call.

Jay

StangerX,
Your temp meter is functioning correctly right?

StangerX

Yep. I've installed an aftermarket secondary just to make sure. I haven't been able to run her up for a while with my gague on. (had her down for paint/body AND I put in a new Painless Wiring harness), so I don't exactly remember exactly how hot she runs. It was definately TOO hot though. I want to say I was pushin' 230-240 sitting idle - if I left it for a minute or 2 after it had warmed up.