My First Mustang (with a lot of lessons)
4/15/08, 09:24 PM
#22
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Progress
With both rockers in place it was time to test fit the floor. After some squeezing and cussing, the floor and firewall were set in place for the first time. In spite of all the hours to get to this point, it was really the first time things started to look normal.
Unfortunately it had to come out again to fit other parts such as the rear frame rails but it sure gave a feeling of progress.
Attention turned back to the big picture. The challenge was to figure out a strategy for assembly of some big pieces such as the frame rails and torque boxes in the front and rear. The rear seat baffle was removed after a few hours of cutting spot welds to get it out. This opened up the rear of the car so the rear floor section could be fit.
Unfortunately it had to come out again to fit other parts such as the rear frame rails but it sure gave a feeling of progress.
Attention turned back to the big picture. The challenge was to figure out a strategy for assembly of some big pieces such as the frame rails and torque boxes in the front and rear. The rear seat baffle was removed after a few hours of cutting spot welds to get it out. This opened up the rear of the car so the rear floor section could be fit.
The remaining parts of the frame rails at the rear panel were then removed allowing the new frame rails to be placed. At this point the rear frame rails were put in place for fit and alignment.
The passenger side frame rail fit pretty well. The driver's side swung wide and ran out under the wheelhouse. This was one of many issues to come when dealing with after market parts.
4/16/08, 07:12 AM
#23
Service Manager
Be aware that there are many different aftermarket parts....not all are bad but you have to know or have someone help you that knows what is good and what is not.....because typically the place you are buying from will not tell you or don't know because all they do is sell and not install them.
4/17/08, 09:02 AM
#24
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SVOPaul - I learned a little too late about this. I bought everything from John's Mustang in Houston but I did not know the right questions to ask. So far, everything in correctable and just needs a lot of massaging. The biggest problems seem to be with wheel houses and I don't know of anyone that has solved that problem. I am sure I am going to have to significantly modify the after market versions. Any suggestions?
4/17/08, 03:18 PM
#25
Service Manager
SVOPaul - I learned a little too late about this. I bought everything from John's Mustang in Houston but I did not know the right questions to ask. So far, everything in correctable and just needs a lot of massaging. The biggest problems seem to be with wheel houses and I don't know of anyone that has solved that problem. I am sure I am going to have to significantly modify the after market versions. Any suggestions?
4/18/08, 09:16 AM
#26
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I was not left with much to save. The basic problem with the aftermarket ones is that the arch seem to be too tight and they are a bit narrow. I have decided to go with 17" wheels with 255/45/17 tires so I think I will be better off cutting the flange and welding in a widening strip. I will loose the original look in the trunk but at this point that is not really a big deal to me. I am going to Lizard Skin the inside and have plans to finish the trunk anyway.
4/23/08, 08:10 AM
#27
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Restomod Decisions
I have decided to modernize the handling of the car and as such chose Heidt’s as the supplier for the project. They make a nice Mustang II front end as well as an Independent Rear Suspension that looks awesome.
The Front Suspension set up has a full crossmember support and steering. I chose to go with power steering in the car and the rack on this system supports it.
I love the look of the IRS. The stock photo is of a completely polished unit but I chose to only polish the visible parts such as the Center Housing, Caliper Covers, Springs, and Lower Control Arms. I love the look of the half shafts with the brake calipers in tight to the Center Section.
In addition to the suspensions Heidt’s also supplies the new Power Brake Booster and Master Cylinder as well as an interesting setup for the Power Steering.
This setup allows the steering to be finely adjusted with the turn of a screw allowing the sensitivity of the steering to be tweaked according to driving preference.
Parts List:
Deluxe Mustang IFS for 1965 Mustang
Tubular control arms with stabilizer tabs
2" dropped spindles (standard)
Ford 11" rotors, 4.5" x 5 bolt pattern
Power Rack,
8" Power Brake Booster with Dual Master Cylinder (disc/disc)
Adjustable Power Steering Valve
Superide Independent Rear Suspension Base Kit
3rd Member with 3.70 Gears
Chrome 3" Half Shaft Upgrade
Positraction Upgrade
Parking Brake Bracket and Cable Kit Complete
I also found the wheels I wanted on the finished car. Personally, I prefer the car to finish looking original on the outside but be very different under the covers, and these wheels followed that theme. This wheel is an up size 17” x 8” version of the 14” x 5” Styled Steel wheel originally offered as an option on 1965-1967 Mustangs. This is a chrome plated cast aluminum wheel with painted cove areas and stylized lug nuts. It works with the red or black 1965-66 style center caps. These wheels are supplied with 4.75 inch backset.
I suppose this is what Restomod is all about but the choices are endless. The process is a lot of fun.
The Front Suspension set up has a full crossmember support and steering. I chose to go with power steering in the car and the rack on this system supports it.
I love the look of the IRS. The stock photo is of a completely polished unit but I chose to only polish the visible parts such as the Center Housing, Caliper Covers, Springs, and Lower Control Arms. I love the look of the half shafts with the brake calipers in tight to the Center Section.
In addition to the suspensions Heidt’s also supplies the new Power Brake Booster and Master Cylinder as well as an interesting setup for the Power Steering.
This setup allows the steering to be finely adjusted with the turn of a screw allowing the sensitivity of the steering to be tweaked according to driving preference.
Parts List:
Deluxe Mustang IFS for 1965 Mustang
Tubular control arms with stabilizer tabs
2" dropped spindles (standard)
Ford 11" rotors, 4.5" x 5 bolt pattern
Power Rack,
8" Power Brake Booster with Dual Master Cylinder (disc/disc)
Adjustable Power Steering Valve
Superide Independent Rear Suspension Base Kit
3rd Member with 3.70 Gears
Chrome 3" Half Shaft Upgrade
Positraction Upgrade
Parking Brake Bracket and Cable Kit Complete
I also found the wheels I wanted on the finished car. Personally, I prefer the car to finish looking original on the outside but be very different under the covers, and these wheels followed that theme. This wheel is an up size 17” x 8” version of the 14” x 5” Styled Steel wheel originally offered as an option on 1965-1967 Mustangs. This is a chrome plated cast aluminum wheel with painted cove areas and stylized lug nuts. It works with the red or black 1965-66 style center caps. These wheels are supplied with 4.75 inch backset.
I suppose this is what Restomod is all about but the choices are endless. The process is a lot of fun.
4/24/08, 09:12 PM
#28
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Just buy a brand new one and get away from the trouble.
But if it pleases you to have something to work on as a daily hobby or "project" then that is well worth it.
Goodluck with your project...
But if it pleases you to have something to work on as a daily hobby or "project" then that is well worth it.
Goodluck with your project...
5/2/08, 12:21 AM
#29
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Looking really good!! I wish I had more funding and time to get mine done!!! I've had the wheel house problem too, and I know what you mean by massaging some parts!!!
5/19/08, 11:04 AM
#30
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Parts Arrived and Work Continues
All of the parts are in 
and work has continued on the car. Enjoy the photos and update of the progress:
After reshaping, the floor panel it fit properly. It would also be much easier to weatherproof this smaller seam and it had a much neater appearance.
With the main floor pan in place it was time to set up the rear floor. At this point nothing was welded to ensure everything works together first.
The rear floor fit well. It was necessary to clamp it down and work it to pull it into shape with the frame rails, but as far as alignment to the front floor and rear panel, it looked good.
With the floor panels and frame rails lined up, permanent welds were finally put on the floor.
The welds were worked in the rear floor down to the frame rails and in the front floor to the rockers. All the welds were ground smooth and seam sealer applied for weatherproofing.
and work has continued on the car. Enjoy the photos and update of the progress:Work started on the quarter panels but the front edge of the quarter actually overlapped the door post by 1/4". The jig work was removed in the door opening and the door bolted on for reference. With the door bolted on and adjusted, the quarter panel appeared to be 1/4" longer than necessary. Getting lost in a pile of fit issues with too many variables, the work moved back to the floors and frame rails. The quarter panel came off and the attention turned to fitting the floor for final welding.
The next problem encountered was with the floor because the flanges toward the back of each side went under the rocker panels too far. This produced a pocket that would collect debris over time and produce another rust issue.
The next problem encountered was with the floor because the flanges toward the back of each side went under the rocker panels too far. This produced a pocket that would collect debris over time and produce another rust issue.
The edge of the rocker panel was marked and the floor removed……AGAIN.
The edges of the floor were trimmed and the flanges reshaped to fit to the rockers. The weld edge was reformed after being rolled inward an inch. The panel was too large to fit the metal brake so it had to be worked by hand.
After the edges were finished, holes were drilled for spot welds.
After reshaping, the floor panel it fit properly. It would also be much easier to weatherproof this smaller seam and it had a much neater appearance.
With the main floor pan in place it was time to set up the rear floor. At this point nothing was welded to ensure everything works together first.
The rear floor fit well. It was necessary to clamp it down and work it to pull it into shape with the frame rails, but as far as alignment to the front floor and rear panel, it looked good.
With the floor panels and frame rails lined up, permanent welds were finally put on the floor.
The welds were worked in the rear floor down to the frame rails and in the front floor to the rockers. All the welds were ground smooth and seam sealer applied for weatherproofing.
5/19/08, 12:56 PM
#31
Service Manager
It's ashame you weren't just a little later with this project....I just got a new product update from Dynacorn an they now offer a COMPLETE floor assembly...which includes the main floor pan, rear floor pan, rocker panels, rear frame rails, seat mounting panel and front frame rail extensions ALREADY welded together! All this specific for a Convertible or they also have a coupe version.
5/28/08, 10:34 AM
#33
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Some More Choices and New Issues
The first choice was where to locate the seat pan. I wanted to get a little extra leg room in the car so we decided to shift it back 3 inches. In looking at the design, I could not believe how Ford engineered the bolts to come from under the car leaving holes that collect water between the floor pan and the seat pan. We decided to seal this up and weld cage nuts in the seat pan to mount the rails. Pictures of this area come later.
I also took the opportunity to choose tires for the new wheels. After looking at a bunch of choices I went with 245/45/17’s in front and 255/45/17’s in the rear. BFGoodrich g-Force Sports were mounted on the new wheels.
As awesome as the wide tires looked on the new rims it caused a major speed bump in the build. They simply stuck out too far past the quarter panels. This is probably fine for a lot of people but not the look I am going for. Putting a tape measure on the problem, the sidewall was actually 1 1/8" out past the inside lip of the wheel opening. The only solution was to swap out the half shafts and control arms on the Heidt’s rear end. Their tech support indicated that they have a 55" setup available as opposed to the factory original 58” I have. Going to the 55" configuration would move the wheels in about 1 1/2" on each side. There was enough room inside the wheel house to move that far inboard with the tires, so the problem could be taken care of. The downside of this was that it slows down the project and there were restocking and shipping fees from Heidt’s. Since the wheels do not come with different backspacing it was the only option.
Meanwhile there was still work to do. The OEM tires were placed on for reference to set up the rear end. With the overall diameter basically correct the positioning of the crossmember and placement of the axle could be set to get the correct ride height.
The radius of the new wheels and tires was 13” and with this setup they would set under the lip of the quarter panel 1/4". Final adjustments would be made when the new parts arrived and the proper wheels were on the car, but this would be close.
Work began on the front frame rails and torque boxes. With the fit issues in the back, it would be possible to have similar challenges with the front tires. Heidt’s tech support indicated that they make narrowed control arms for the front suspension if the same problem occurred.
The old aprons and frame rails were removed making the front end look a lot cleaner. It was always refreshing getting that ugly rusted metal out of the way.
The frame rails were tack welded down to this table to prevent warping from the heat of the welding process.
The frame rails were fit in place and carefully checked to make sure they sat level and square. Before they could be installed the torque boxes had to go in first.
Before that could happen, this would be the last time access would be available to the inside of the rocker panels. In order to prevent future rust problems, a long hose was made to apply air inside the space to scatter undercoating material as it was sprayed inside each rocker. Again, all possible steps were taken to prevent rust from coming back into this car.
The torque boxes fit decently, but still needed to be clamped in place to pull the metal surfaces together. A tight fit is required to minimize movement in the structure.
With both torque boxes welded in place the new IFS crossmember and the original radiator support were put in place for reference to the front frame rails. The joint where the right frame rail meets the radiator support had a gap 3/8" wide. Both sides were the same. The aftermarket frame rails were not as wide as the original rails. The frame rails were jigged in place and the outside flanges at the joint met up fine. Plates to take up the gap would be fabricated to solve the problem.
Having set the frame rails set in place, the floor supports that extend the frame rails back to the seat supports were fit. You can see all the spot weld holes drilled to hold these together. There were 36 holes per side and that is just one joint. Both pieces were also welded to the torque boxes and the floor. That required over 200 spot welds just to put these parts in place.
I also took the opportunity to choose tires for the new wheels. After looking at a bunch of choices I went with 245/45/17’s in front and 255/45/17’s in the rear. BFGoodrich g-Force Sports were mounted on the new wheels.
As awesome as the wide tires looked on the new rims it caused a major speed bump in the build. They simply stuck out too far past the quarter panels. This is probably fine for a lot of people but not the look I am going for. Putting a tape measure on the problem, the sidewall was actually 1 1/8" out past the inside lip of the wheel opening. The only solution was to swap out the half shafts and control arms on the Heidt’s rear end. Their tech support indicated that they have a 55" setup available as opposed to the factory original 58” I have. Going to the 55" configuration would move the wheels in about 1 1/2" on each side. There was enough room inside the wheel house to move that far inboard with the tires, so the problem could be taken care of. The downside of this was that it slows down the project and there were restocking and shipping fees from Heidt’s. Since the wheels do not come with different backspacing it was the only option.
Meanwhile there was still work to do. The OEM tires were placed on for reference to set up the rear end. With the overall diameter basically correct the positioning of the crossmember and placement of the axle could be set to get the correct ride height.
The radius of the new wheels and tires was 13” and with this setup they would set under the lip of the quarter panel 1/4". Final adjustments would be made when the new parts arrived and the proper wheels were on the car, but this would be close.
Work began on the front frame rails and torque boxes. With the fit issues in the back, it would be possible to have similar challenges with the front tires. Heidt’s tech support indicated that they make narrowed control arms for the front suspension if the same problem occurred.
The old aprons and frame rails were removed making the front end look a lot cleaner. It was always refreshing getting that ugly rusted metal out of the way.
The frame rails were tack welded down to this table to prevent warping from the heat of the welding process.
The frame rails were fit in place and carefully checked to make sure they sat level and square. Before they could be installed the torque boxes had to go in first.
Before that could happen, this would be the last time access would be available to the inside of the rocker panels. In order to prevent future rust problems, a long hose was made to apply air inside the space to scatter undercoating material as it was sprayed inside each rocker. Again, all possible steps were taken to prevent rust from coming back into this car.
The torque boxes fit decently, but still needed to be clamped in place to pull the metal surfaces together. A tight fit is required to minimize movement in the structure.
With both torque boxes welded in place the new IFS crossmember and the original radiator support were put in place for reference to the front frame rails. The joint where the right frame rail meets the radiator support had a gap 3/8" wide. Both sides were the same. The aftermarket frame rails were not as wide as the original rails. The frame rails were jigged in place and the outside flanges at the joint met up fine. Plates to take up the gap would be fabricated to solve the problem.
Having set the frame rails set in place, the floor supports that extend the frame rails back to the seat supports were fit. You can see all the spot weld holes drilled to hold these together. There were 36 holes per side and that is just one joint. Both pieces were also welded to the torque boxes and the floor. That required over 200 spot welds just to put these parts in place.
5/29/08, 01:13 PM
#34
awesome project!!!!!!!!!! good luck!
5/31/08, 11:34 PM
#35
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Wow!
I have been keeping up with this thread and I must say you are doing an awesome job. In fact, it was this post which got me to take a real hard look at my car and actually take it down to a restoration shop nearby and letting them give me an honest assessment. My car came through their checks and those areas I was suspect over were not a big deal. I am glad things are coming along... 
Looks real good...
Looks real good...
6/2/08, 12:40 PM
#36
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Thanks for that. This is the only place I am posting this content. I am keeping highly detailed records and currently have about 150 pages with extensive pictures in a build book. I am planning to put it out on a web site but if so, I will post that info on the forum. Glad to hear your pony turned out in good shape.
6/4/08, 03:07 PM
#38
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Onto the Front Suspension
The front suspension was assembled far enough to check the fit of the front tire to the fender. When the tire was put on however, the center hole machined in the wheel turned out to be too small to fit over the center hub on the brake rotor. It could only be pulled down to within 1/4" of the bolt surface. This meant the wheel did not sit flat to the rotor and a true view of how the wheels would fit could not be obtained. I had a machinist take a look at the situation and he determined he could machine the center holes out about .025 on the front wheels to get them over the hubs. That process would take about 1 week and after speaking to tech support at California Pony Cars they confirmed there would be plenty of material in the hub to work with.
Back to the front end construction, the front frame rails and extensions were welded together off the car and then clamped back in place for final installation.
Once the frame rails were complete, spot weld holes were drilled in the floor and the rails were clamped in and welded.
The Heidt's kit came with reinforcing plates for the frame rails. The top plate was put in place and a notch was cut out of the frame rail to clear the coil spring. The outer plate was then tacked in.
With the rotor in place on one side, it was time to check the fit of the tire to the fender. A preliminary alignment was done to get theright camber, and the tire was bolted in place.
Overall, the suspension looked great in the car and would provide a fantastic ride compared to the original. There were just some kinks to work out figuring out the ride height, wheel travel, steering, and spacing.
The wheel centered nicely in the arc of the wheel opening. Now just to get the wheels milled and the spacing sorted.
It looked a bit high so the ride height and wheel position options had to be evaluated.
Back to the front end construction, the front frame rails and extensions were welded together off the car and then clamped back in place for final installation.
Once the frame rails were complete, spot weld holes were drilled in the floor and the rails were clamped in and welded.
The Heidt's kit came with reinforcing plates for the frame rails. The top plate was put in place and a notch was cut out of the frame rail to clear the coil spring. The outer plate was then tacked in.
With all reinforcing plates in place, the crossmember was fit and the shock towers positioned. This required some grinding to fit the pieces to the frame.
The seams that would cover the shock towers were welded and then the shock towers themselves welded.
The upper control arms were bolted on followed by the lower control arms and spindles.
With the rotor in place on one side, it was time to check the fit of the tire to the fender. A preliminary alignment was done to get theright camber, and the tire was bolted in place.
It was at this point the wheel problem was discovered. The fit in front was very close at that position.
The suspension was raised to simulate ride height and the tires completely filled the wheel opening.
Overall, the suspension looked great in the car and would provide a fantastic ride compared to the original. There were just some kinks to work out figuring out the ride height, wheel travel, steering, and spacing.
The wheel centered nicely in the arc of the wheel opening. Now just to get the wheels milled and the spacing sorted.
The caliper was placed on the hub to see the final view.
Next a rear tire was squeezed in place to check ride height in relation to the front.
It looked a bit high so the ride height and wheel position options had to be evaluated.
7/24/08, 11:38 AM
#40
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Is there interest in me continuing this thread? I am not too good at this stuff but I will stay with it if you guys find any value in what I post here.
Thanks in advance for the feedback.
Thanks in advance for the feedback.