Brenspeeds 60+ hp Power Package
8/26/10, 07:53 AM
#21
Shelby GT350 Member
Thread Starter
Plus you have to see if they are telling you peak rwhp or rwhp throughout the curve. Most are advertising the rwhp you get throughout the curve.
8/26/10, 07:55 AM
#22
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^ that could be true too. They might have gained 35-40 rwhp at peak, but up to 60 somewhere prior to peak.
But I'm still willing to bet the 60 hp gain is starting with a baseline on 87 octane and going to 93 for the mods and tune.
But I'm still willing to bet the 60 hp gain is starting with a baseline on 87 octane and going to 93 for the mods and tune.
8/26/10, 08:09 AM
#23
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as for FRPP being better, he%$ yes FRPP is better, they designed the dang engine! I don't care how many years a tuner has been in the business, they can't reverse engineer and brand new engine by sitting in the car on a dyno and get it right.
and why do you keep talking about crank horsepower over rwhp?!? Only Ford knows the crank hp! Tuners don't yank engines and put it on a dyno they just use a chassis dyno, so again you are using ricer math and making assumptions.
8/26/10, 08:24 AM
#24
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Link me to Stinger's 40 rwhp gain from just a tune and CAI, his baseline was either on 87 octane, or he added another mod in there, or it was not dynoed on the same day, or a combination of them. There has been enough "tuners" already to have intake and tunes out for us to ALL to know (well you'd at least think there was), that if you start on 93 octane as the baseline and add a CAI and tune, you will not see 40 rwhp gains. However you will if you start with 87 octane as your baseline, then go to 93 Octane, then add CAI and tune (and therefore dynoing on a different day too).
Here's your link
Last edited by PTRocks; 8/26/10 at 08:26 AM.
8/26/10, 09:29 AM
#25
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the only one spreading BS is you, with this ricer math. You can't just add together all the gains from individual parts to come up with a grand total. It doesn't work that way. Until someone does all these at once on the same car with the same fuel, on the same dyno, it's all just going to be an assumption.
as for FRPP being better, he%$ yes FRPP is better, they designed the dang engine! I don't care how many years a tuner has been in the business, they can't reverse engineer and brand new engine by sitting in the car on a dyno and get it right.
and why do you keep talking about crank horsepower over rwhp?!? Only Ford knows the crank hp! Tuners don't yank engines and put it on a dyno they just use a chassis dyno, so again you are using ricer math and making assumptions.
as for FRPP being better, he%$ yes FRPP is better, they designed the dang engine! I don't care how many years a tuner has been in the business, they can't reverse engineer and brand new engine by sitting in the car on a dyno and get it right.
and why do you keep talking about crank horsepower over rwhp?!? Only Ford knows the crank hp! Tuners don't yank engines and put it on a dyno they just use a chassis dyno, so again you are using ricer math and making assumptions.
It's quite obvious you chose to not read my post, and just pull on your FRPP blinders. Notice how many times I specifically used the word assume - that's all any of us are doing here, because we have no proof in this particular situation.
Based on tests that have been done - proving the X-Pipe gives 12rwhp (by itself) and proving the CAI gives 12rwhp (by itself), and proving a tune adds 28rwhp (by itself) all done on the exact same octane as the baseline, we can safely assume that 52rwhp from all of the above mods is possible. If anything, the X-Pipe and CAI could actually work off of each other due to increased air flow, and provide even more. Infact you are right - I can't just add the numbers, because increased airflow is exponential, therefore, we can assume my base of +12 per mod is likely even higher when they are put together.
And again, can you not read? It's been proven time and time again, you can very accurately find the amount of drivetrain loss just by using the load of the dyno, with the throttle closed. RWHP+Drivetrain loss=Crank HP. This isn't ricer math, it's fact.
Until you have verifiable proof to the contrary, everything you are saying here is null. We have proof to back these claims, you have your "FRPP is holier than thou" logic. You keep adding mediocre parts to your car, and the rest of us will keep putting down real power.
Last edited by KonaBlue5.0; 8/26/10 at 09:31 AM.
8/26/10, 09:41 AM
#26
Shelby GT350 Member
Thread Starter
What tune is giving 28 peak rwhp. Of all i have seen it is between 10-20 peak rwhp going from 93 to 93. Average 15 peak rwhp
This goes for Bama, VMP and BBR. These guys are no slouches. Even Livernois showed 20 on their auto dyno chart.
This goes for Bama, VMP and BBR. These guys are no slouches. Even Livernois showed 20 on their auto dyno chart.
8/26/10, 09:43 AM
#27
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still no ones really making any points either way.
you can have your "60 hp" bolt ons. I know what I'm doing. The FRPP 624hp supercharger kit that was tuned by Fords engineers is what's going on my car. I can trust their numbers and reliability.
you can have your "60 hp" bolt ons. I know what I'm doing. The FRPP 624hp supercharger kit that was tuned by Fords engineers is what's going on my car. I can trust their numbers and reliability.
8/26/10, 10:07 AM
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Just so you know I am pretty sure the FRPP 624 package comes with NO warranty. So you are paying 8+ grand for no warranty. Isn't that the point of FRPP for people who are cautious and do not want to void there warranty so the pay a lot more.
I don't know I may be speaking out of my rear here but this is what I think. Could be wrong tho.
I don't know I may be speaking out of my rear here but this is what I think. Could be wrong tho.
8/26/10, 10:17 AM
#29
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you are correct. The 525 kit has a 1 year warranty and the 624 kit has none.
the warranty is not my biggest concern. It's knowing that the tune was written by the team that designed the engine.
the warranty is not my biggest concern. It's knowing that the tune was written by the team that designed the engine.
8/26/10, 10:25 AM
#30
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https://themustangsource.com/f726/in...da-cai-486366/
Same day, octane, car, all within 20 minutes. 390 rwhp -> 418 rwhp = 28rwhp tune only.
8/26/10, 10:28 AM
#31
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You do realize variable valve / cam timing / piston motors in general have been around for a long time, right? This isn't some alien engine that no one can tune except Ford. You sound like a real dud.
8/26/10, 10:46 AM
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Any ways to each his own...
But I would be skeptical of a supercharger that did not offer at least 12/12 warranty. Especially FRPP. Why would they do that? its not like they are putting out more horsepower than another supercharger.
8/26/10, 10:53 AM
#33
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I guess it is time for me to clear the tension.
Yes our kit is advertised as a 60 hp kit because it is one. We sell this kit to many of our local Ford dealerships. To them, it is called our Premium Fuel package. It takes their showroom 5.0 with 87 octane, which is very typical, and detuned factory Ford tune, to our premium fuel custom tune, developed on our in house Dynojet chassis dyno. These custom tunes were developed on our car from the factory floor on 87 octane because our car came factory with 87 octane. From there we added all of the parts included in our stage 1 performance pack and finished our custom tuning on premium fuel. The 60 HP gains stated are true and are crank horsepower gains taking account a 20% drivetrain loss. If you refer to our dyno graphs posted in our Intake/tuner package, you will see our gains are legit and it clearly states FACTORY SHOW ROOM STOCK vs. STEEDA CAI AND TUNER PACKAGE on the graph. It also states ambient temps in the dyno cell were 92 degrees. With our PREMIUM FUEL PACKAGE vs. FACTORY SHOW ROOM CONDITION, we picked up an average of 35 RWHP gain PEAK TO PEAK and 42 RWHP gains AT 5,300 RPM. Our 2011 stock laid down 354.68 rwhp and 392.43 RWHP on our PREMIUM FUEL TUNE / STEEDA CAI. That was before the axleback's were even released. Following the release of Steeda's axleback, we retested the same car in the same weather and saw 5-10hp gains with the axleback's and splice in X. We have always under rated or packages, be it a CAI/Tuner package to one of our turn key supercharger packages, due to individual differences car to car. We have even seen somewhat substantial differences on STOCK 5.0's. No where in our add does it state 60+ RWHP gains. If it is not stated then why would it be, when Ford released the 5.0 numbers at 412 HP did you assume it was RWHP, No. I will tell you that these engines are very under rated from Ford and are making far more than the 412. Unlike the 4.6L's gains are being seen from axlebacks Which is why we rated the kit at a reasonable 60 HP gains. Many people have stated that Fords performance tunes are far less to be desired when compared to any of the very sucessful speed shops, take the Shelby GT's and Bullitt's for example, I have never got a complaint from a customer saying that the Shelby or Ford performance tune performed better or even equal for that matter.
If you feel that FRPP is the only way to go, then go for it. If this package is not for you, fine, no bad feelings here.
Our 2011 6sp gained an additional 27 RWHP with the addition of Kook's Longtubes and Catted X yesterday and made a 12.01 @ 118 MPH pass last night at the track. We feel with the addition of a taller gear (still have factory 3.55''s), it will be a high 11 second car with simple bolt ons and approtiate tires. Not bad for a small speed shop.
We are a very sucessful Performance Speed Shop who strives for perfection through countless hours of R&D both at the track, on the dyno. We do this by testing every product we sell before we put it on the market. I don't think our shop got to this point by making false clams or by putting our customers engines at risk with our custom tuning.
Follow the link below for our dyno graph proving our claims.
http://www.brenspeed.com/3000gt11steeda.html
Yes our kit is advertised as a 60 hp kit because it is one. We sell this kit to many of our local Ford dealerships. To them, it is called our Premium Fuel package. It takes their showroom 5.0 with 87 octane, which is very typical, and detuned factory Ford tune, to our premium fuel custom tune, developed on our in house Dynojet chassis dyno. These custom tunes were developed on our car from the factory floor on 87 octane because our car came factory with 87 octane. From there we added all of the parts included in our stage 1 performance pack and finished our custom tuning on premium fuel. The 60 HP gains stated are true and are crank horsepower gains taking account a 20% drivetrain loss. If you refer to our dyno graphs posted in our Intake/tuner package, you will see our gains are legit and it clearly states FACTORY SHOW ROOM STOCK vs. STEEDA CAI AND TUNER PACKAGE on the graph. It also states ambient temps in the dyno cell were 92 degrees. With our PREMIUM FUEL PACKAGE vs. FACTORY SHOW ROOM CONDITION, we picked up an average of 35 RWHP gain PEAK TO PEAK and 42 RWHP gains AT 5,300 RPM. Our 2011 stock laid down 354.68 rwhp and 392.43 RWHP on our PREMIUM FUEL TUNE / STEEDA CAI. That was before the axleback's were even released. Following the release of Steeda's axleback, we retested the same car in the same weather and saw 5-10hp gains with the axleback's and splice in X. We have always under rated or packages, be it a CAI/Tuner package to one of our turn key supercharger packages, due to individual differences car to car. We have even seen somewhat substantial differences on STOCK 5.0's. No where in our add does it state 60+ RWHP gains. If it is not stated then why would it be, when Ford released the 5.0 numbers at 412 HP did you assume it was RWHP, No. I will tell you that these engines are very under rated from Ford and are making far more than the 412. Unlike the 4.6L's gains are being seen from axlebacks Which is why we rated the kit at a reasonable 60 HP gains. Many people have stated that Fords performance tunes are far less to be desired when compared to any of the very sucessful speed shops, take the Shelby GT's and Bullitt's for example, I have never got a complaint from a customer saying that the Shelby or Ford performance tune performed better or even equal for that matter.
If you feel that FRPP is the only way to go, then go for it. If this package is not for you, fine, no bad feelings here.
Our 2011 6sp gained an additional 27 RWHP with the addition of Kook's Longtubes and Catted X yesterday and made a 12.01 @ 118 MPH pass last night at the track. We feel with the addition of a taller gear (still have factory 3.55''s), it will be a high 11 second car with simple bolt ons and approtiate tires. Not bad for a small speed shop.
We are a very sucessful Performance Speed Shop who strives for perfection through countless hours of R&D both at the track, on the dyno. We do this by testing every product we sell before we put it on the market. I don't think our shop got to this point by making false clams or by putting our customers engines at risk with our custom tuning.
Follow the link below for our dyno graph proving our claims.
http://www.brenspeed.com/3000gt11steeda.html
Last edited by BRENSPEED; 8/26/10 at 11:06 AM.
8/26/10, 11:41 AM
#34
Legacy TMS Member
the only one spreading BS is you, with this ricer math. You can't just add together all the gains from individual parts to come up with a grand total. It doesn't work that way...........and why do you keep talking about crank horsepower over rwhp?!? Only Ford knows the crank hp! Tuners don't yank engines and put it on a dyno they just use a chassis dyno, so again you are using ricer math and making assumptions.
Is this the same ricer math that you used on the cardomain link in your sig, which shows your '05 GT at 305 rwhp or about 347 at the engine? But then again there's a HP figure of 356 listed as "bragging rights" so I guess I'm having a hard time following your math.
Back on topic, Brenspeed has since posted and explained their position. If anyone has any questions regarding the actual numbers that can be expected from this package, please feel free to contact them directly. Let's not ruin the thread with a bunch of vendor bashing that is likely unjustified to begin with.
Last edited by tom281; 8/26/10 at 11:43 AM.
8/26/10, 04:40 PM
#35
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The best tuners are not FRPP, they are the shops that are relasing this information. I had a custom dyno tune on my 03 cobra for over 4.5yrs that ran FLAWLESS that mad maximum power and this was a daily driver that was also raced on the dragstrip.
good grief.......
8/26/10, 04:42 PM
#36
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OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
8/26/10, 04:44 PM
#37
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I guess it is time for me to clear the tension.
Yes our kit is advertised as a 60 hp kit because it is one. We sell this kit to many of our local Ford dealerships. To them, it is called our Premium Fuel package. It takes their showroom 5.0 with 87 octane, which is very typical, and detuned factory Ford tune, to our premium fuel custom tune, developed on our in house Dynojet chassis dyno. These custom tunes were developed on our car from the factory floor on 87 octane because our car came factory with 87 octane. From there we added all of the parts included in our stage 1 performance pack and finished our custom tuning on premium fuel. The 60 HP gains stated are true and are crank horsepower gains taking account a 20% drivetrain loss. If you refer to our dyno graphs posted in our Intake/tuner package, you will see our gains are legit and it clearly states FACTORY SHOW ROOM STOCK vs. STEEDA CAI AND TUNER PACKAGE on the graph. It also states ambient temps in the dyno cell were 92 degrees. With our PREMIUM FUEL PACKAGE vs. FACTORY SHOW ROOM CONDITION, we picked up an average of 35 RWHP gain PEAK TO PEAK and 42 RWHP gains AT 5,300 RPM. Our 2011 stock laid down 354.68 rwhp and 392.43 RWHP on our PREMIUM FUEL TUNE / STEEDA CAI. That was before the axleback's were even released. Following the release of Steeda's axleback, we retested the same car in the same weather and saw 5-10hp gains with the axleback's and splice in X. We have always under rated or packages, be it a CAI/Tuner package to one of our turn key supercharger packages, due to individual differences car to car. We have even seen somewhat substantial differences on STOCK 5.0's. No where in our add does it state 60+ RWHP gains. If it is not stated then why would it be, when Ford released the 5.0 numbers at 412 HP did you assume it was RWHP, No. I will tell you that these engines are very under rated from Ford and are making far more than the 412. Unlike the 4.6L's gains are being seen from axlebacks Which is why we rated the kit at a reasonable 60 HP gains. Many people have stated that Fords performance tunes are far less to be desired when compared to any of the very sucessful speed shops, take the Shelby GT's and Bullitt's for example, I have never got a complaint from a customer saying that the Shelby or Ford performance tune performed better or even equal for that matter.
If you feel that FRPP is the only way to go, then go for it. If this package is not for you, fine, no bad feelings here.
Our 2011 6sp gained an additional 27 RWHP with the addition of Kook's Longtubes and Catted X yesterday and made a 12.01 @ 118 MPH pass last night at the track. We feel with the addition of a taller gear (still have factory 3.55''s), it will be a high 11 second car with simple bolt ons and approtiate tires. Not bad for a small speed shop.
We are a very sucessful Performance Speed Shop who strives for perfection through countless hours of R&D both at the track, on the dyno. We do this by testing every product we sell before we put it on the market. I don't think our shop got to this point by making false clams or by putting our customers engines at risk with our custom tuning.
Follow the link below for our dyno graph proving our claims.
http://www.brenspeed.com/3000gt11steeda.html
Yes our kit is advertised as a 60 hp kit because it is one. We sell this kit to many of our local Ford dealerships. To them, it is called our Premium Fuel package. It takes their showroom 5.0 with 87 octane, which is very typical, and detuned factory Ford tune, to our premium fuel custom tune, developed on our in house Dynojet chassis dyno. These custom tunes were developed on our car from the factory floor on 87 octane because our car came factory with 87 octane. From there we added all of the parts included in our stage 1 performance pack and finished our custom tuning on premium fuel. The 60 HP gains stated are true and are crank horsepower gains taking account a 20% drivetrain loss. If you refer to our dyno graphs posted in our Intake/tuner package, you will see our gains are legit and it clearly states FACTORY SHOW ROOM STOCK vs. STEEDA CAI AND TUNER PACKAGE on the graph. It also states ambient temps in the dyno cell were 92 degrees. With our PREMIUM FUEL PACKAGE vs. FACTORY SHOW ROOM CONDITION, we picked up an average of 35 RWHP gain PEAK TO PEAK and 42 RWHP gains AT 5,300 RPM. Our 2011 stock laid down 354.68 rwhp and 392.43 RWHP on our PREMIUM FUEL TUNE / STEEDA CAI. That was before the axleback's were even released. Following the release of Steeda's axleback, we retested the same car in the same weather and saw 5-10hp gains with the axleback's and splice in X. We have always under rated or packages, be it a CAI/Tuner package to one of our turn key supercharger packages, due to individual differences car to car. We have even seen somewhat substantial differences on STOCK 5.0's. No where in our add does it state 60+ RWHP gains. If it is not stated then why would it be, when Ford released the 5.0 numbers at 412 HP did you assume it was RWHP, No. I will tell you that these engines are very under rated from Ford and are making far more than the 412. Unlike the 4.6L's gains are being seen from axlebacks Which is why we rated the kit at a reasonable 60 HP gains. Many people have stated that Fords performance tunes are far less to be desired when compared to any of the very sucessful speed shops, take the Shelby GT's and Bullitt's for example, I have never got a complaint from a customer saying that the Shelby or Ford performance tune performed better or even equal for that matter.
If you feel that FRPP is the only way to go, then go for it. If this package is not for you, fine, no bad feelings here.
Our 2011 6sp gained an additional 27 RWHP with the addition of Kook's Longtubes and Catted X yesterday and made a 12.01 @ 118 MPH pass last night at the track. We feel with the addition of a taller gear (still have factory 3.55''s), it will be a high 11 second car with simple bolt ons and approtiate tires. Not bad for a small speed shop.
We are a very sucessful Performance Speed Shop who strives for perfection through countless hours of R&D both at the track, on the dyno. We do this by testing every product we sell before we put it on the market. I don't think our shop got to this point by making false clams or by putting our customers engines at risk with our custom tuning.
Follow the link below for our dyno graph proving our claims.
http://www.brenspeed.com/3000gt11steeda.html
Gets old listening to all these negative folks around here....
8/27/10, 08:25 AM
#38
Cobra Member
My birthday is next month and my wife keeps asking me what I want. She knows it's something for my car and this sounds like a nice set up. Of course it would be great for me if a couple of you would pick it up and give it a test so i can be an informed purchaser. Or, Brenspeed could give me an aggressively discounted price (Yes I know the stock price is MORE THAN FAIR) after I've given it a test I could spread the word. Either sounds good to me.
Being exceedingly uninformed on the issue, will the exhaust require welding or is the whole thing engineered so a lift and a little wrenching will do the trick?
Being exceedingly uninformed on the issue, will the exhaust require welding or is the whole thing engineered so a lift and a little wrenching will do the trick?
8/27/10, 03:38 PM
#39
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So yes in fact the 60 hp claim is not peak and includes going from 87 octane to 93 octane.
Remove that 10-13 hp gain that you get on a stock car alone going from 87-93 octane and the
60 hp gain for this package is really a
47-50 hp gain at max and about 40-43 hp gain at peak.
Just as I stated, that sounds about right for a CAI, tune and catback exhaust when compared same octane baseline to same octane tuned.
Thanks for the confirmation and clarification Brent.
Remove that 10-13 hp gain that you get on a stock car alone going from 87-93 octane and the
60 hp gain for this package is really a
47-50 hp gain at max and about 40-43 hp gain at peak.
Just as I stated, that sounds about right for a CAI, tune and catback exhaust when compared same octane baseline to same octane tuned.
Thanks for the confirmation and clarification Brent.
8/28/10, 01:06 PM
#40
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Thanx for clearing it up Brenspeed.
To the guy that thinks he "owned" me.. lol
Say what you want. It dyno'd 305 to the wheels X about 15% drivetrain loss is about 350hp. So I'm not getting your point..
(i never noticed the bragging rights section, something I musta put in years ago)
Thanx for that though. Hope it made you feel better inside.
To the guy that thinks he "owned" me.. lol
Say what you want. It dyno'd 305 to the wheels X about 15% drivetrain loss is about 350hp. So I'm not getting your point..
(i never noticed the bragging rights section, something I musta put in years ago)
Thanx for that though. Hope it made you feel better inside.
Last edited by jay45dee; 8/28/10 at 01:09 PM.