redonblackpony

Saturday was my 4th track day of the season.
I cut it short after the third session. 90° plus temperatures took it's toll on the track conditions and my tires were feeling pretty greasy. I put four off and a dazzling Spinout that left small rocks between the rim in my tire bead. No damage to the car unless you count the dust that was spread inside and out
It seems the current mods I've added to the car have made it slower.
1. H&R adjustable front sway bar
2. BMR Front a arms with taller ball joint.
I figured I would get the front sway bar since I have the matching rear sway to balance the car. Even on the softest setting it's too stiff (understeer). The lower a arms are marketed towards a lowered car which is misleading. The taller ball joints did correct the role center but did not bring the a arm parallel to the ground resulting in a reduced front track width.
Currently the front end geometry of my car is off considerably. I have a Steeda bump steer kit that needs to be adjusted but is damaged or seized on one side and I cannot get it loose nor could the alignment shop.
Needless to say the car did not handle as well as it did in the past.
I will probably put the stock swaybar back on with poly bushings. In addition, I think I will be ordering boss stock height a arms and getting my bump steer kit corrected.
This is the nature of building a track car. Sometimes you move in the right direction and other times you do not

dmichaels

Have you tried the OEM rear bar with stiffer front? That setup works for me... I had to play with the stiffness settings. But great turn in and the car is quite neutral. I can easily induce oversteer with lift throttle, trail braking, or a heavy right foot.

Are your shocks adjustable? Are you running square or staggared?

redonblackpony

I prefer my car to be prone to slight oversteer rather than understeer. Having a stock rear sway bar with a big aftermarket front sway bar would push it towards understeer. That is the way my car feels currently. I do not like it! Before I put the front sway bar on the Turn in was sharp.
I have the Koni yellow adjustables and I do currently run a staggered set up. 275 front and 295 rear. That could be part of the problem :/
I just ordered 18 inch 9.5 wheels and that will be wrapped in a 275 square set up. Tires most likely will not be ordered until fall.

5.M0NSTER

Hey, don't beat yourself up too bad. There are just slow days out there. I had my 4th track day at Grattan yesterday with mixed lap times. In the AM sessions I was faster, beating my previous best by ~0.5s @ 1.32.7. But in the PM sessions I couldn't get near it hovering in the 1.34~1.35 range.

I talked to a few other guys who also said they were running 2 or 3 seconds slower than before. I talked to a 2015 M3 driver as well, and his best lap was in the 1.37 range. It seems yesterday was a slow day.

You run negative camber up front, right? I'm surprised you're getting under-steer characteristics with your mods. The under steer behavior of my vehicle is 80% less now than before. Even with a front Steeda Competition Bar set to middle setting and factory rear bar. The advice dmichaels gave me was that these cars need as soft rear bar as possible to help with traction on corner exits. With -2 deg up front, factory rear and stiff front I can only get the car to understeer if I REALLY try. Car still felt pretty hooked up and there was more grip reserve even at the old "limits".

On the other hand I have slow initial steering response on-center. Still not sure why...

But you could try making one change at a time (more or less stiff bar setting) and see if it feels better or worse.

redonblackpony

I've had 2 track days on this particular setup that I knew was wrong. The first one was an autocross event which I did good at. Stiffer front sway bar helped a lot with the tight quick turns.
Saturday's event was a technical 14 turn road course. I prefer to run that course counter clockwise but they were running it clockwise. I can't stand running that direction on that particular track.
I know pretty much what I have to do to the car, it's just a matter of having the time and money to do it. Track modding\testing can be frustrating at times.

Bert

Have your tires got greasy like that before? Maybe it was simply the temps that did it?

So I guess you wouldn't recommend those A-Arms? What about the "boss" ones that Steeda sells with the extended ball joint; any thoughts about those?

Conventional wisdom says Redonblack should try stiffer rear bar to get it more balanced; is the rear already on the stiffest setting? (I understand this goes against d's advice)

That is really strange, I have never heard of running either/or direction on a track before!

5.M0NSTER

Stiffer rear makes sense here, aspecially since OP is running wider rears. I run square setup, and so does D.

I've not had the chance to run any of my typical tracks in reverse. A few of them would be scary!! I'd love to try it though.

redonblackpony

The only track that I frequent that runs both ways is the streets of Willow. Running CCW favors the high horsepower cars. Running CW Will favor the momentum and lighter cars. It can be a bit scary running CW, especially the Chicane. Also known as the chicane of death. Not that anyone has died there that I know of. But you cannot see the exit coming into a tight left-hand curve after going 120.
My front tires were wearing unusual. Getting a lot of wear on the furthest outside of the tire. I am running -2.1° of camber too. Definitely a toe issue due to the tire rod and a arm not being parallel.
I have run in the high heat before were the tires were really greasy feeling. Best lap times are always in the morning and following sessions get slower and slower.
The H&R rear sway bar is nonadjustable but quite stiff 26mm. I ran the front sway bar at the softer setting of the two. I believe it still needs to be softer.

redonblackpony

I got a killer deal on the BMR lower A arms ($400). I had done some research and figured since my car was lowered the taller ball joint would Correct the geometry and dropping around 12 pounds would also be a benefit.
After talking to Kelly at BMR, we ascertained that this was the wrong application for my use. Instead of the poly bushings he recommended the spiracle joints and adjustable type. Because of the taller ball joint the a arm is not parallel to the ground. Which in itself is not bad but in order to get the toe correct the tie rod needed to be turned around 10-12 full turns reducing the track with somewhere around a half an inch each side.
Having a lower drop on the springs or coil overs would correct this.