I have been following all the FI stuff for months and have a question that hasn't been entertained yet considering everyone now seems to be after as much power as possible-

I'm after reliablity and I don't understand the difference in reliablity between these two applications:

The EExpress supercharger is all about reliablity, but that is only because it can't make a lot of power, like i'm talking 300rwhp. But couldn't a vortech/procharger at really low PSI with an intercooler be even more reliable at the same power lets say 260-280rwhp than the Xcharger?

 

That's my thought too. Say... a Procharger at 7psi with a 3 core intercooler...

My very limited understanding is that you can boost these engines to 300 rwhp but don't expect them to last 100,000 miles.

 

I hear for reliability, Vortech is really good.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NJCoastFlyFish @ May 4, 2006, 7:50 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have been following all the FI stuff for months and have a question that hasn't been entertained yet considering everyone now seems to be after as much power as possible-

I'm after reliablity and I don't understand the difference in reliablity between these two applications:

The EExpress supercharger is all about reliablity, but that is only because it can't make a lot of power, like i'm talking 300rwhp. But couldn't a vortech/procharger at really low PSI with an intercooler be even more reliable at the same power lets say 260-280rwhp than the Xcharger?
[/b][/quote]


Vortech says @ 300RWHP with the A/F ratio set to about 10.9 @ 10psi, the motor should last for quite a long time..


Now in theory, if we could all keep our grubby little hands of the handheld tuner, and stay away from the pulley cabinet its probably true..

Our problem is this.. We are all greedy..

But your point is well taken, and you are on the right track.. Very nice to meet you NJCoastFlyFish!! The Vortech family looks forward to your arrival..

I dont speak for Vortech..

 

On that note, I just wanted to add that I myself have resisted the calls to immidiately go to the track and prove a point.. This has been hard to do, and I have been sidelined at times by the community for resisting the call to put up ET's..

I chose this path for several reasons.. One of which is the lack of an A/F ratio gauge that would have my car running down a dragstrip, without the ability to view what my A/F ratio is at the time of making the run.. Another is, I have been thinking of ways to safegaurd the engine from perilous situations..

In the upcoming weeks, I have about 3 short projects on tap.. One is the A/F gauge.. There are 2 others of vital importantance to me.. One is a Supercharger oil cooler, presented in the picture below.. The other is a Engine oil cooler..

YOu must understand, that you do not see Corvettes, or Vipers, or Porsche, Ferrari's and BMW's, running around town with 400+HP without an engine oil cooler.. However us Mustang owners never make such provisions to safe gaurd our engines from heat..

But I will.. Before I go to the track, I will have a SC oil cooler, an engine oil cooler, and an A/F gauge.. I may do more, just not sure yet..

V2 Supercharger Oil Cooler




Engine Oil Cooler



These projects are a way for me to show respect to my car, and its abilities.. I will resist any track runs, until I am sure my car is safely protected from the rigors of the track, and the abuse which is brought to bare on my internals by way of heat...

Heat kills engines.. I have not seen one Blown or Turbo'd GT or V6 around here with an engine oil cooler.. I ask myself why? My conclusion is guys get so caught up in the here and now, they forget they must use the car to get to work on Monday.. LOL! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]


Here is another engine oil cooler setup..

http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page07.html

@ALL who view this material and love their Mustang

Please take the time to add an engine oil cooler to your beloved Mustang.. It could save you from broke pistons, and other problems associated with heat.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ May 4, 2006, 12:58 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
On that note, I just wanted to add that I myself have resisted the calls to immidiately go to the track and prove a point.. This has been hard to do, and I have been sidelined at times by the community for resisting the call to put up ET's..

I chose this path for several reasons.. One of which is the lack of an A/F ratio gauge that would have my car running down a dragstrip, without the ability to view what my A/F ratio is at the time of making the run.. Another is, I have been thinking of ways to safegaurd the engine from perilous situations..

In the upcoming weeks, I have about 3 short projects on tap.. One is the A/F gauge.. There are 2 others of vital importantance to me.. One is a Supercharger oil cooler, presented in the picture below.. The other is a Engine oil cooler..

YOu must understand, that you do not see Corvettes, or Vipers, or Porsche, Ferrari's and BMW's, running around town with 400+HP without an engine oil cooler.. However us Mustang owners never make such provisions to safe gaurd our engines from heat..

But I will.. Before I go to the track, I will have a SC oil cooler, an engine oil cooler, and an A/F gauge.. I may do more, just not sure yet..

V2 Supercharger Oil Cooler


Engine Oil Cooler



These projects are a way for me to show respect to my car, and its abilities.. I will resist any track runs, until I am sure my car is safely protected from the rigors of the track, and the abuse which is brought to bare on my internals by way of heat...

Heat kills engines.. I have not seen one Blown or Turbo'd GT or V6 around here with an engine oil cooler.. I ask myself why? My conclusion is guys get so caught up in the here and now, they forget they must use the car to get to work on Monday.. LOL! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
Here is another engine oil cooler setup..

http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page07.html

@ALL who view this material and love their Mustang

Please take the time to add an engine oil cooler to your beloved Mustang.. It could save you from broke pistons, and other problems associated with heat.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Just wondering -- do you expect to loose oil pressure with the extra runs/ pipings etc... and if so how much and how would you compensate....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(screaminyellin6 @ May 4, 2006, 10:53 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Just wondering -- do you expect to loose oil pressure with the extra runs/ pipings etc... and if so how much and how would you compensate....
[/b][/quote]


A fellow Vortech Brother! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]


Based on the location of the oil filter, relative to the position of the intercooler, I dont expect to lose much or any oil pressure.. Since the distance away from the current oil filter places an extremely easy path to the mount location of the engine oil cooler, which is in front of the intercooler, I should be ok.. Also remember this will add more overall volume to my total oiling system..

The V2 and the engine will each have their own persective oil heat exchangers, mounted in front of the car with plenty of cool air..

I will also attach electric fans to each assembly to allow my self to continue to cool the oil in traffic manually, or while being stuck in the staging lanes at a race track.. Call it Forced Air oil cooling.. Basically even my engine oil and supercharger oil will be blown! LOL!!

I have missed you man! Good to see you.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

Let me be alittle more precise ScreaminYellin6, My EastCoast Counterpart! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]


I will mount the Engine oil cooler down low in front of the intercooler.. The V2 oil cooler will be mounted behind the grill above the bumper!.. They will both have remotely controlled electric fan switches mounted below the steering column..

When viewing the front of the car, you will see the engine cooler down low with 2 small fans over it with braided hoses lines..

The V2 oil cooler will be hidden behind the grill with a fan over it, but will be visable through the honeycomb grill..

Also, I do expect to see lower air temps from the V2 somewhat in an off boost situation.. Hopefully.. Since I do have an Air temp gauge plugged directly into the V2 currently, I will be able to inform the community if indeed I see a result of cooler oil temps inside the V2..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ May 4, 2006, 2:13 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Let me be alittle more precise ScreaminYellin6, My EastCoast Counterpart! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
I will mount the Engine oil cooler down low in front of the intercooler.. The V2 oil cooler will be mounted behind the grill above the bumper!.. They will both have remotely controlled electric fan switches mounted below the steering column..

When viewing the front of the car, you will see the engine cooler down low with 2 small fans over it with braided hoses lines..

The V2 oil cooler will be hidden behind the grill with a fan over it, but will be visable through the honeycomb grill..

Also, I do expect to see lower air temps from the V2 somewhat in an off boost situation.. Hopefully.. Since I do have an Air temp gauge plugged directly into the V2 currently, I will be able to inform the community if indeed I see a result of cooler oil temps inside the V2..
[/b][/quote]

I tell ya, I'm extremely impressed with all you've done and are doing. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ May 4, 2006, 2:00 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
A fellow Vortech Brother! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
Based on the location of the oil filter, relative to the position of the intercooler, I dont expect to lose much or any oil pressure.. Since the distance away from the current oil filter places an extremely easy path to the mount location of the engine oil cooler, which is in front of the intercooler, I should be ok.. Also remember this will add more overall volume to my total oiling system..

The V2 and the engine will each have their own persective oil heat exchangers, mounted in front of the car with plenty of cool air..

I will also attach electric fans to each assembly to allow my self to continue to cool the oil in traffic manually, or while being stuck in the staging lanes at a race track.. Call it Forced Air oil cooling.. Basically even my engine oil and supercharger oil will be blown! LOL!!

I have missed you man! Good to see you.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]


darn impressive indeed. You got to take some more shots of your project [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] I'm really interested in seeing the resulting product. Are you attaching the Oil Cooler adapter to the Oil Filter mount and then running the plumbing to and from the oil cooler back to the Oil Filter Mount? Looks like it would be a pretty simple install, aside from having to possibly take the nose off

Are there real gains in HP do youthink/believe or is it more for safety reasons?

BTW I think I am switching my plugs to NGK Cooper TR6 plugs. No one seems to make our particular size etc in a step colder, but the TR6 should do the trick. Now, according to Vortech they said go with Cooper. One Note - TR5-1 are the replacment for our stock in cooper, and the "1" stands for the extension they have to make the 3/4" project a little more and make the .807 size of stock. But I believe the TR6's should be fine nonetheless and give the engine a little less heat and possibly run safer with less risk of "boom". Also reducing gaping to .035 as per Vortech. What is your feelings on it ( Cooper vs. platinum vs iridum ) ?performance wise? should be about the same , I think the Plat,IR are mostly for extended like 100k miles. and feelings on using the TR6?

 

Found this on another forum from a 98 SC'd GT:

"Engine oil shouldn't be cooled too much below 180 degrees, otherwise it won't flow properly and protect the engine. But if it's too hot, it will break down faster and will also not protect the engine. The engine oil cooler I used had a check ball that would keep the engine oil from circulating in the cooler unless the oil was above a safe temperature. Make sure the cooler you use has this feature. The actual install of both coolers was basically a pain in the butt, and the final result left me with tiny engine oil leaks from the synthetic oil leaching through the fittings. I tried teflon tape, and making sure the fittings were tight, but I always had some oil loss. It wasn't excessive though, so I delt with it in order to get the benefits of cooler oil temperatures."

All in all it sounds like a worthy project. I doubt you will have the leak issues after your thorough work on your intercooler setup. But I thought it was interesting to note that he mentioned not to cool the engine oil below 180 degrees.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rygenstormlocke @ May 4, 2006, 1:18 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Found this on another forum from a 98 SC'd GT:

"Engine oil shouldn't be cooled too much below 180 degrees, otherwise it won't flow properly and protect the engine. But if it's too hot, it will break down faster and will also not protect the engine. The engine oil cooler I used had a check ball that would keep the engine oil from circulating in the cooler unless the oil was above a safe temperature. Make sure the cooler you use has this feature. The actual install of both coolers was basically a pain in the butt, and the final result left me with tiny engine oil leaks from the synthetic oil leaching through the fittings. I tried teflon tape, and making sure the fittings were tight, but I always had some oil loss. It wasn't excessive though, so I delt with it in order to get the benefits of cooler oil temperatures."

All in all it sounds like a worthy project. I doubt you will have the leak issues after your thorough work on your intercooler setup. But I thought it was interesting to note that he mentioned not to cool the engine oil below 180 degrees.
[/b][/quote]


Directly quoted from Vortech!

"Do not use Synthetic Oil!"

Yes there is a thermistor which stops flow @ 160F and below.. It opens at 180F.. This is significant because our engine coolant temps runs at 190-198F.. This means our oil will maintain a cooler temp of 180F, which the internals are going to love..

Love so much, that I have seen statements such as 10-20RWHP gains on cooler oil temps..

@Screaminyellin6

I would go with what Vortech has told you.. This is because they know.. If you do any experiments with the plugs, bad things can happen.. I wont question their judgment about spark.. They understand the finite details of spark as it relates to boost and ignition.. Choosing an option in regards to spark which is outside the mainstream of Vortech's crafty and talented engineers is something I wont do..

I am against you using anything outside of their advice.. Not because of my relationship with them, but because if something goes wrong, we have to figure out what happend.. This would mean challenging your wishes to use something other than suggested by Vortech.. It makes the situation dicey.. It opens up a can of worms, from which I choose for my Vortech brothers to avoid.. Lets keep the risk somewhat low.. Its hard enough for me to take the 2.62in pulley off the shelf and go for broke.. That darn pulley keeps looking at me, yelling I know I can break a 12 for ya mate, put me on the V2! Lets go to the track..

I have to yell at him everyday to get off my back, cause its not time yet.. LOL!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]

So baby steps.. Thats how we proceed, with baby steps.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

Here is a quote Rygen from the engine oil cooler setup..

Brand New (Comes in Box)!! Heavy Duty for FORD Mustang GT 4.0L & 4.6 L V8. For ALL Cars using 22mm-1.5 threaded oil filters such as FRAM PH2 & Motorcraft FL-820S. Included Thermostatically Contolled Adapter Starts Routing Hot Oil to the Cooler at 160 degrees and fully at 180 degrees. Oil always goes through the filter. The 3 Row Cooler Has Minimal Oil Pressure Drop. This System greatly prolongs the life of your engine & Increases Power by keeping oil at the proper temperature.


When I speak of 10-20RWHP gains, this is not the basis for me running this oil cooler.. My main basis for this is to remove heat from the engine somehow.. I think our engines have a better shot at life, running big HP and cooler temps.. If I can see a gain on the dyno from 2RWHP or above then I am happy.. Even if I have a net gain of 0 gain, thats ok.. As long as I know the engine oil is at its most efficient temp, then I am sure the internals as far as rods, crank, pistons, and main bearings are in a better situation under 10-12psi of boost.. Thats all I am after really..

Of course I would love to come back and say I picked up 20RWHP! LOL! You know that would be awsome.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ May 4, 2006, 4:38 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Directly quoted from Vortech!

"Do not use Synthetic Oil!"

Yes there is a thermistor which stops flow @ 160F and below.. It opens at 180F.. This is significant because our engine coolant temps runs at 190-198F.. This means our oil will maintain a cooler temp of 180F, which the internals are going to love..

Love so much, that I have seen statements such as 10-20RWHP gains on cooler oil temps..

@Screaminyellin6

I would go with what Vortech has told you.. This is because they know.. If you do any experiments with the plugs, bad things can happen.. I wont question their judgment about spark.. They understand the finite details of spark as it relates to boost and ignition.. Choosing an option in regards to spark which is outside the mainstream of Vortech's crafty and talented engineers is something I wont do..

I am against you using anything outside of their advice.. Not because of my relationship with them, but because if something goes wrong, we have to figure out what happend.. This would mean challenging your wishes to use something other than suggested by Vortech.. It makes the situation dicey.. It opens up a can of worms, from which I choose for my Vortech brothers to avoid.. Lets keep the risk somewhat low.. Its hard enough for me to take the 2.62in pulley off the shelf and go for broke.. That darn pulley keeps looking at me, yelling I know I can break a 12 for ya mate, put me on the V2! Lets go to the track..

I have to yell at him everyday to get off my back, cause its not time yet.. LOL!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]

So baby steps.. Thats how we proceed, with baby steps.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

No synthetic oil??? I've been using royal purple for abut 500 miles and running pretty fine ... why would they say no synthtic. Synthetic is really related to breakdown, viscosity is still 5/30...

I'll let you know how the plugs work out as well. I'm hoping they fit right and of course it's good to have a step colder as a safeguard [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]

Those 2.62's have a way of getting into your head - lol -- give in give in give in...... I'm still thinking of upping the pulleys myself to... buttoo much going on right now... maybe in a few months..

 

Oil coolers-thats awesome! I think this will benefit a lot of guys, excellent idea [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]