Ford to balance updates with tradition for Mustang's 50th
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From: Phoenix, AZ.
The only way any car will ever have that kind of hold over the market again is if it is better front to back, top to bottom, left to right, and is priced at or lower than every car in its class. It would have to have more power, use less gas, have better interior materials/design, a more dependable power train, a more aesthetically pleasing look, etc., etc., etc. The auto industry is global now; whether a car is sold globally or not, some of its competitors are. There are Asian and European competitors to American cars in every class, and they are readily available right around the corner. Cars have to specialize, which means cutting certain superlatives out of their design. It's just a fact of life at this point. I doubt very seriously there will ever be a car that captures such a large percentage of the market like the Mustang did. Too many alternatives that meet or surpass any given car in any given category.
Those of you pointing to the GTO's last iteration and identifying its benefits, I'm the kind of guy that that car never had a chance with. It looks like a Camry, not a Judge. If I want a sleeper, I'll take a Ford Taurus and supercharge it. If I want a GTO, I want a car that not only sounds and drives better than 95% of the cars on the road, I want people to think, "that is most definitely NOT another iteration of the cookie-cutter sedans everyone else is driving." Pontiac's final version of the GTO didn't do that, in any way, shape or form. It was plain. It was boring to look at. It didn't at all remind people of the Judge, which (whether Pontiac wanted to admit it or not) is what people immediately thought of when they heard "GTO."
Those of you pointing to the GTO's last iteration and identifying its benefits, I'm the kind of guy that that car never had a chance with. It looks like a Camry, not a Judge. If I want a sleeper, I'll take a Ford Taurus and supercharge it. If I want a GTO, I want a car that not only sounds and drives better than 95% of the cars on the road, I want people to think, "that is most definitely NOT another iteration of the cookie-cutter sedans everyone else is driving." Pontiac's final version of the GTO didn't do that, in any way, shape or form. It was plain. It was boring to look at. It didn't at all remind people of the Judge, which (whether Pontiac wanted to admit it or not) is what people immediately thought of when they heard "GTO."
Some valid points, however the original concept of the GTO was taking a plain Jane Tempest intermediate family car and stuffing a hot motor in it. As far as the spirit of the original concept is concerned Pontiac pulled it off. However, in 1964 this was ground breaking, not so much in 2004 with many other choices, a strong market for retro styling, and Pontiac's horrible job of marketing the car. In the end it comes down to personal preference, I loved my GTO, received many compliments, but hey it wasn't for everybody. I'll admit, first time I saw the car at the NY auto show in 2002 I was underwhelmed, but it grew on me with the 2005 updates, and what was your choice of 400 hp 30K cars in 2005/2006?
Last edited by DonVito; Apr 26, 2013 at 11:04 AM.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: October 15, 2004
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From: Wisconsin
I liked the GTO but the big problem for me was you couldn't find them and if you did, the dealer wouldn't allow a test drive. I had a frustrating time getting an 05 GT and actually did consider a goat. The dealers turned me off. I've had to order my last two cars because of a lack of variety on the dealer lots. The first AWD Fusion I had a chance to drive was mine when it rolled off the truck. I live in Wisconsin, you would think a local dealer would have one. Another problem is marketing. When was the last time you saw a Mustang or Taurus commercial? I never saw a GTO ad. No wonder people aren't buying.
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From: Phoenix, AZ.
Yeah, Pontiac's marketing just sucked. I know this sounds like conspiracy theory bs, but I heard that the UAW was so butt hurt over the GTO being assembled in Australia that Pontiac agreed not to do any commercials during prime time. There were TV commercials shot that might have aired 2am or something like that, but at least there were a good bit of print ad's out there tho. I hear you on the test drive issue, for me no test, no buy and good bye.
Last edited by DonVito; Apr 26, 2013 at 11:18 AM.
Shelby GT500 Member
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From: CenTex...sort of
I'm not sure who was hating on the GTO, but as I said before, when people hear "GTO," they think "Judge." Right or wrong, that's the image that comes to mind. Same thing with the 1st decade of Mustangs: people don't think about the very first one, they think about the fastbacks, the GT500's, the Bullitts, etc. What Pontiac did in the 2000's was to put a muscle car badge on what looked like a Camry. It's hard to blame the public for not falling in love with it, regardless what was under the hood or in the cabin.
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This is my son's '04 GTO!! That photo was taken on Mt Lemmon outside of Tucson, AZ. I owned an '06 GTO. Nice cars! I've had 3 Hurst/Olds, 9 442's, 7 Cutlasses, 1 SS 454 Chevelle, 1 Camaro, an '01 Mustang GT and presently have a '79 Cutlass hot rod, a '70 Corvette and my '13 Mustang GT. The '04-'06 GTO was the fastest GTO ever built and was a better car than any of the earlier GTO's. True, it didn't stand out visually off the show room floor, but with some after market parts could be a pretty good looking car. My son's car in the photo has the SAP grilles, an MPD ram air hood, SAP rear spoiler and rear fascia, lowered with '05-'06 18" GTO wheels. Pretty good looking car and ran a 13.06 @ 107 with drag radials.
Last edited by Olds442; Apr 27, 2013 at 01:15 PM.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: October 13, 2004
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This is my son's '04 GTO!! That photo was taken on Mt Lemmon outside of Tucson, AZ. I owned an '06 GTO. Nice cars! I've had 3 Hurst/Olds, 9 442's, 7 Cutlasses, 1 SS 454 Chevelle, 1 Camaro, an '01 Mustang GT and presently have a '79 Cutlass hot rod, a '70 Corvette and my '13 Mustang GT. The '04-'06 GTO was the fastest GTO ever built and was a better car than any of the earlier GTO's. True, it didn't stand out visually off the show room floor, but with some after market parts could be a pretty good looking car. My son's car in the photo has the SAP grilles, an MPD ram air hood, SAP rear spoiler and rear fascia, lowered with '05-'06 18" GTO wheels. Pretty good looking car and ran a 13.06 @ 107 with drag radials.
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From: North Carolina
Front end looked like any and everything Pontiac made at the time, ie Grand Prix, grand am, etc etc.
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True, visually they didn't make a big impact and a silver, gray or black car was invisible to most people. But under the skin it was a quality factory performance car and if you check prices on these cars today you'll find there is a new appreciation for them, they are bringing more money today than they did 3 years ago. a nice low mile car is well north of $20k.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: December 20, 2011
Posts: 4,326
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From: CenTex...sort of
This is my son's '04 GTO!! That photo was taken on Mt Lemmon outside of Tucson, AZ. I owned an '06 GTO. Nice cars! I've had 3 Hurst/Olds, 9 442's, 7 Cutlasses, 1 SS 454 Chevelle, 1 Camaro, an '01 Mustang GT and presently have a '79 Cutlass hot rod, a '70 Corvette and my '13 Mustang GT. The '04-'06 GTO was the fastest GTO ever built and was a better car than any of the earlier GTO's. True, it didn't stand out visually off the show room floor, but with some after market parts could be a pretty good looking car. My son's car in the photo has the SAP grilles, an MPD ram air hood, SAP rear spoiler and rear fascia, lowered with '05-'06 18" GTO wheels. Pretty good looking car and ran a 13.06 @ 107 with drag radials.
I have no doubt the car was one of the better performance cars when it was produced, but the looks were just far too pedestrian and plain.
True, visually they didn't make a big impact and a silver, gray or black car was invisible to most people. But under the skin it was a quality factory performance car and if you check prices on these cars today you'll find there is a new appreciation for them, they are bringing more money today than they did 3 years ago. a nice low mile car is well north of $20k.
I think these were greatly underappreciated cars at the time and only now are being more properly regarded. I think a similar thing is happening to the Pontiac G8 too.
Too many people were looking for clown-show styling excess, ala The Judge, that they totally overlooked a tatesfully restrained, fairly sophisticated, high quality and well executed performance car. Oh, and especially in 6.0 trim, one that was pretty darned fast too. It was very much the gentleman's high performance coupe rather than some overwrought and silly teen dream muscle car.
Perhaps we should start an "Unappreciated Cars of Their Time" thread...
Last edited by rhumb; Apr 29, 2013 at 08:33 AM.
I do recall driving a '67 GTO way back when and yeah, it was a boomer in a straight line but its chassis dynamics were only modestly better than my mom's Country Squire station wagon. A lot of fun though in a goofy sort of way.
Last edited by rhumb; Apr 30, 2013 at 08:14 AM.
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From: Phoenix, AZ.
Well, considering the GTO has been out of production for near eight years and is still debated means the car made some kind of statement, good or bad. Yes, those old GM A bodies were a fun white knuckle terror, pretty much any average commuter car of today will out turn, brake, and many will out run them.
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