Twin Turbo

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Qq6fvUoZ



Flat Rock — Ford Motor Co. has sold more than 8.5 million Mustangs since 1964, but the Dearborn automaker recognizes it has to keep the iconic pony car fresh to boost sales.
The Mustang is narrowing in on its 50th anniversary — April 17, 2014 is the official date — and details about its sixth generation, slated to hit showrooms for the 2015 model year, are scant.
But changes are coming. Sales of the Mustang in recent years have been at historic lows, but demand for the car — at least globally — is at an all-time high, which means the Mustang of old is nearly ready to make room for the Mustang of new.
Raj Nair, Ford's vice president of global product development, was mum when asked about the future on Wednesday, as Ford and the United Auto Workers celebrated the Mustang's 49th birthday and the 1 millionth Mustang built at the Flat Rock Assembly Plant.
"The thing about refresh rates is they are a key factor in your market share," Nair said, when asked what Ford needed to accomplish with the refreshed Mustang.
But Nair also said Ford isn't going to be too radical to boost sales or make hasty alterations to meet the needs of the soon-to-be European Mustang consumer.
"We've got a very strong idea of what a Mustang is," he said. "That's what Mustang will always be."
Sales of the Mustang aren't what they used to be. Chevrolet's Camaro muscle car has topped the Mustang in annual sales in the U.S. for three consecutive years. The difference is about only 1,400 cars but overall Mustang sales are less than half of what they were in the 1990s.
The reason: more choices and waning interest for the current-generation Mustang, and because fans are well aware the next edition will come sooner rather than later.
"There's a lot of other choices for those wanting to express themselves, which is the basis of what the Mustang is about," said Jack Nerad, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book. "The Mustang is a 'Hey, look at me' car, and if there's a new car like the Camaro that's even more 'Hey, look at me,' then that's the one I'm going to buy."
Demand, however, has accelerated to what Ford has called "a critical mass" for markets outside the U.S., particularly in Europe, slated to sell Mustangs for the first time since the 1970s.
Nair on Wednesday insisted that opening up Mustang sales to such a large market — Ford already sells the pony car in 30 other markets — won't change the time-tested car.
"It's an American icon, but it's not solely an American passion," Nair said. "There's always regulatory requirements, but relative to the car, a Mustang is a Mustang."

jsimmons

Wrong. If it's not a Mustang, it's just another car, and I ain't interested. The reason I got my 2012 is because it looks more like a Mustang than anything they've sold since 1970.

I don't give a rat's solid methane ejection system about Camaros Corvettes, Chargers, or anything else you might happen to mention.

11SHELBYGT500

So exciting that only two people were interested in it. Lol

houtex

If they had labled the Probe a Mustang? Yeah. That guy would have been proven so incomprehensibly wrong he couldn't have been let go fast enough.

Now... there is absolute proof that a "Mustang is a Mustang" is not a good thing to say. A Mustang has to be a Mustang. Even the II was still a Mustang in certain ways, where a Probe simply WAS NOT.

The proof? GTO. The short lived revival from Pontiac. They messed that car up so bad in relation to the actual GTOs that people were turned off. I know I was. That car should have been done right, but it looked so.. Honda. Especially the rear end. And a SINGLE SIDE exhaust?! And no scoops. Right. Too little too late with the revisions. Death knell was done at that point, GM proved they didn't know what they were doing.

Then they got Camaro right, for Camaro fans.

Ford had best not mess this up, and that's all I got to say.

/The not-proof, oddly, is the Charger. I still can't figure that out, although the '99 Show Charger was proof that people would be ok with it as a four door... So maybe that was it.

Zastava_101

Things were different back when the new GTO/Monaro came out; back then anything and everything retro was selling and GTO had nothing to offer.
Now things have kinda cooled down ... Chrysler PT Cruiser and Chevrolet HHR (both high selling retro cars) are gone, Volkswagen Beetle is not selling well at all, looks like Chrysler is ready to replace Dodge Challenger with the new Alfa Romeo-based SRT Barracuda ... and Mustang's sales are at the lowest point in the 49-year-old history.

Varilux

Its no great mystery why the Ford Mustang isn't selling like it originally did... The original car was designed to be "inexpensive but sporty." One of the primary goals was to stay under a target price of around $2,600.

Today's Mustang may be sporty- but it is not an inexpensive car (I know, I just ordered a '14 GT)...

Refresh the look if you want- but keep the long hood, short rear deck, some sort of indentation on the side- but MOST importantly make the car a sporty, affordable car that offers pretty good performance and popularity will increase.

Do I trust Ford to "get it right?" Well, I just ordered a '14 because I'm betting this is the last year the Mustang resembles a Mustang. I travel to Europe for work a lot- the cars there are "interesting," but I have no desire to drive a Mustang designed to entice the French, Brits, Germans, or Italians...

Boomer

The 15 will look like a Mustang.
People from Europe go gaga over the look of the current Mustang.
It'll stay American looking, but just be sold over there.
It's not going to be a European mustang.

Think about how many they would sell in Europe VS North America.
They aren't going to design something to target the few VS the many.

Ford Fan

i know the newer GTOs did not resemble the original GTO in any manner but they were pretty quality cars. when they refreshed it i think 1 year after they had been on the market (as you said) with the duel exhaust, 6L and 400 HP it was a pretty badass car for the money even if it wasn't much to look at though the styling improvements did help a lot imo.

but i know what you were getting at. and the original with the 5.7 and the 1 sided exhaust was a turn off for a "GTO." people who bought it when it was 1st introduced must have been pissed when they saw how much they missed out on with the next years revisions in performance and styling lol.

rhumb

Agreed. I think the GTO was an under appreciated car that was perhaps a bit closer in concept to the original, if not in specific styling detail, than most folks realized. It was an excellent performer, had clean understated looks (if a bit too clean and understated for those who reflexively think "The Judge" when they think GTO, and was generally a very nice car. As for the looks, the very original GTO, too, was a barely tweaked version of the rather plain and understated Tempest. It was only later that the GTO went full clownshow stylistically. Do realize that we were lucky to get the latter day GTO at all, the only real alternative was no GTO. It was, in my mind, sort of a gentleman's pony/muscle car as compared to the Mustang and a very good one at that.

Free Agent

Excellent points. Although not looking like a high impact, scooped and huge spoilered Judge the 2004 GTO was very true to the performance heritage of the original 1964 GTO. Big engine, intermediate body, nice interior and V8 only just like the original. A few gripes were fixed the following year of 2005. It just wasn't "retro" enough for the baby-boomer crowd. Suited and suits me fine though. I still get compliments on mine to this day. Although I did have a little buyers remorse when in 2005 the 400 HP LS2 came out with the dual scoop hood and dual exhaust outlets. I'm thinking of being an early adopter of a 2015 Mustang GT and I really don't want to be a "victim" of this same thing again.

For me the Camaro is over styled and although the Challenger has a decent look to it, its just so darn big. I'm hoping that the 2015 Mustang has a lot of Mustang DNA in it but doesn't go overly retro and actually looks to the future as well. Baby boomers won't live forever and the future of the car needs to be thought of now for future potential buyers. Whatever the case the Ford Mustang design team has a TALL hill in front of them to climb to please everyone. Here's to hoping they do.

DonVito

It's nice to see a little love for the GTO, until three weeks ago I was a very happy owner of a 06 GTO that sadly met it's demise. I have to say Holden built a hell of a car and in 06 there was nothing to compare to its quality and performance for the price. The seats were some of the best offerings by far from GM and could compare with buckets from cars three times or more the price. Only real gripes with the car were bushings that were shot on the assembly line, and a shifter better suited to a Kenworth, under tired, and big money to mod, and or repair, and ironically the cars weight, however when compared to a Challenger or Camaro the GTO was svelte. Perhaps the car might have been better received had it not been badged as a GTO, however it was a limited production run and all were sold, although some were pretty heavily discounted. As far as a worthy replacement I could not consider anything but a 5.0, many former GTO owners feel the same way. Nothing comes close to the bang for the buck of this car.

RIP

cdynaco

Yep. Pontiac is dead because they committed suicide the last several years. Made plain jane cars and then stuck retro labels on them. Right. Like that would inspire buyers.
Morons.

Clino

Actually, $2,600 in today's money is about $20,000 so the Mustang starts at pretty much the same price as when it came out so it's not price. It's more likely that there are just waaaaaaay more choices than back then. The sales are spread over so many more brands and models that no one model can ever sell like the Mustang did back then.

kcoTiger

The only way any car will ever have that kind of hold over the market again is if it is better front to back, top to bottom, left to right, and is priced at or lower than every car in its class. It would have to have more power, use less gas, have better interior materials/design, a more dependable power train, a more aesthetically pleasing look, etc., etc., etc. The auto industry is global now; whether a car is sold globally or not, some of its competitors are. There are Asian and European competitors to American cars in every class, and they are readily available right around the corner. Cars have to specialize, which means cutting certain superlatives out of their design. It's just a fact of life at this point. I doubt very seriously there will ever be a car that captures such a large percentage of the market like the Mustang did. Too many alternatives that meet or surpass any given car in any given category.

Those of you pointing to the GTO's last iteration and identifying its benefits, I'm the kind of guy that that car never had a chance with. It looks like a Camry, not a Judge. If I want a sleeper, I'll take a Ford Taurus and supercharge it. If I want a GTO, I want a car that not only sounds and drives better than 95% of the cars on the road, I want people to think, "that is most definitely NOT another iteration of the cookie-cutter sedans everyone else is driving." Pontiac's final version of the GTO didn't do that, in any way, shape or form. It was plain. It was boring to look at. It didn't at all remind people of the Judge, which (whether Pontiac wanted to admit it or not) is what people immediately thought of when they heard "GTO."

UnrealFord

I agree on the GTO, Great car and Motor etc etc, they just failed so miserably with the styling, they should of added styling cues from the original

kcoTiger

This...



doesn't even have the same DNA as THIS:



There is absolutely no comparison between these two cars outside of the fact that both have four wheels, seats and a steering wheel. As was said by someone else, Pontiac committed suicide by branding sedans as muscle cars.

Automagically

Pontiac may have failed on some levels but before we get wrapped up in nostalgia for the GTO, remember its a Chevelle/Malibu/Cutlass/Regal under all that Pontiac hardware. Though Pontiac was making power plants.

Twin Turbo

Ironically, the Monaro was a relative sales success in Britain where it wasn't saddled with any history. Sure, the Monaro has a huge history in Australia, but very few knew what one was before it was sold here.

All we knew was it was a good looking (in VXR form - with the more aggressive hood and facias), relatively well built, spacious (both trunk and rear seats) coupe with a stonking engine. It had the pace and space of a BMW M5 for less than the price of an M3.



I very, very nearly bought one as they were, at the time, easier to get hold of than the S197 Mustangs.

In fact, Vauxhall stuck with it and replaced it with the newer 4-door VXR8 (which is basically the Holden Commordore) and we're even being offered the wagon version now!!

Z.r.q Othman

The Pontiac GTO is called the Holden Manaro back home in Burnei( Only 4 units sold). Funny thing is- They quickly change the emblem to GTO.

Over here in Qatar- most is rebadged Chevy SS V8- They change the badge to Holden to be unique & stang out from others

rhumb

Do recall, the original '64 GTO was pretty plain Jane and sedate:


Even the '65 wasn't what I would call scintillating:


So perhaps the 2004-06 Neo GTO did reflect that aesthetic perfectly. They were, as were the 2004-06 GTO's, mildly tweaked versions of pretty standard sedan/coupe styling of the era.

I think the haters had in mind the far more flamboyant latter models, many of which really were getting a bit gaudy:


As for the 2015 Mustang, I suspect that it will return back to its roots more in spirit if less in retaining a full complement of 1965-era-specific styling cues, not that it will toss all of them though. But rather than a full-on, retro-themed design like the current car, I think the 2015 will, like its 1965 ancestor, reflect a fresh, modern and exciting though refined styling motif that will mark it as a fully modern sport coupe rather than some rolling yesteryear reminisce for wistful, aging baby boomers. The 1965 Mustang was hardly a nostalgia piece meant to assuage those of a certain age, but rather, was a young, fresh modern design which I think the 2015 will be too.