EcoBoost-4 2.3l to replace 3.7l V6?
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 2,121
Likes: 3
From: Dallas
I can't really knock on 6 cylinders that's probably true. I'm not even one that's much for turbocharged engines. But I do find the technology and power behind these new engines impressive. I do however think there is a lot still lacking in the 3.7 that the 3.7 in the Nissan/Infiniti family does have. A true aptitude for gusto. I think maybe with better gearing the Ford sixer would show a little more of its true nature.
I am typically of the same mind about no replacement for cylinders but I'm not opposed to Ford kicking out the 3.7 unless the leave little to be unleashed.
The 335i lacked the inherent ability to be let loose and prove it can work like not many twin turbo before it. I think the 1m coupe did so much better at that than any 335 model. Maybe I should shove a set of 3.73 gears in a 6 cylinder and just see what happens? Maybe then I'll be more convinced. But as it sits the V6 will not be anything of loss to most customers. And I'm sure when top tuners get 500hp out of the little 4 we will soon forget what the 3.7L even was.
Myself, I'm a big fan of natural aspiration to boot. Turbos are just fun to geek out on and prove interesting dynamics. But an NA can never be beat for feel.
I am typically of the same mind about no replacement for cylinders but I'm not opposed to Ford kicking out the 3.7 unless the leave little to be unleashed.
The 335i lacked the inherent ability to be let loose and prove it can work like not many twin turbo before it. I think the 1m coupe did so much better at that than any 335 model. Maybe I should shove a set of 3.73 gears in a 6 cylinder and just see what happens? Maybe then I'll be more convinced. But as it sits the V6 will not be anything of loss to most customers. And I'm sure when top tuners get 500hp out of the little 4 we will soon forget what the 3.7L even was.
Myself, I'm a big fan of natural aspiration to boot. Turbos are just fun to geek out on and prove interesting dynamics. But an NA can never be beat for feel.
Bullitt Member
Joined: April 6, 2012
Posts: 295
Likes: 4
From: Detroit Metro
Another cultural shift...it was hard as V6 owner to constantly answer, no its not a V8 Mustang but I still get 300+HP, imagine the mental block that has to be overcome for a 4Cyl stang.....
... but gotta love more HP/Torque/MPG
... but gotta love more HP/Torque/MPG
GT Member
Joined: October 4, 2010
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
From: Columbus
Originally Posted by carfreak666
Another cultural shift...it was hard as V6 owner to constantly answer, no its not a V8 Mustang but I still get 300+HP, imagine the mental block that has to be overcome for a 4Cyl stang........ but gotta love more HP/Torque/MPG
... but gotta love more HP/Torque/MPG
GT Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Littleton, CO
I might be a V8 guy for the street or the 1/4, but if I was looking for a balanced race car for the road course or autocross, I would seriously consider this combo.
As for the V6: look to the F150 and SHO for this motor's future......
Cobra Member
Joined: February 12, 2010
Posts: 1,411
Likes: 0
From: MA (north shore)
Originally Posted by Ghost
That would last only until the reduced front mass and independent rear suspension eat someone's lunch on a twisty road or race track. The I-4 is actually a great platform for the entry level 'Stang; those that don't run their car down the 1/4 mile won't be crying about the springy rear or great gas mileage and for those that road race, I can only imagine the potential power that an additional or bigger turbo could make.
I might be a V8 guy for the street or the 1/4, but if I was looking for a balanced race car for the road course or autocross, I would seriously consider this combo.
As for the V6: look to the F150 and SHO for this motor's future......
I might be a V8 guy for the street or the 1/4, but if I was looking for a balanced race car for the road course or autocross, I would seriously consider this combo.
As for the V6: look to the F150 and SHO for this motor's future......
GT Member
Joined: October 4, 2010
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
From: Columbus
As much as I already love the idea, I am fearful that the 2.3's potential is going to be severely limited with the lack of aftermarket components. I'm not talking just intakes and tunes, but talking turbo upgrades, larger intercoolers, full turbo-backs, and so-on.
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Joined: February 1, 2004
Posts: 3,751
Likes: 0
Well I think it's too early to say the aftermarket won't step up to play with the 2.3, if there's demand for it they can and will get in on the fun. But, seriously now, if this motor comes to the Mustang it will be the base engine.
GT Member
Joined: September 8, 2009
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Agree with Moosetang. And being the base model it's for those not overly concerned about running 11s, they just want good, solid performance without paying too much for fuel.
Plus, people who want a good base for serious performance will pay extra for the 5.0?
Plus, people who want a good base for serious performance will pay extra for the 5.0?
V6 Member
Joined: June 16, 2012
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
Ford are getting rid of the V8 in the Mustangs. They are going to 4 pot ecoboost's. This is one of the reasons why the V8's are selling like they are. Its the end of an era. If you have never driven a 4 cylinder car then I can tell you that it's the worse, turbo charged or not. Yes a nice 4 cylinder MG for example was a nice car but had no guts and no go.
Being from the UK and my new Boss being my 73rd car I can tell you that 4 cylinder cars never last as long as V6's or V8's. In the UK we get a ton of power from 4 cylinder cars but you have to accept that the engine is only going to last 70/80,000 miles and then you need a recon engine put in. The difference is that US motors last much longer than EU cars being they are V8's and very under tuned as stock.
Remember that EU gas is a much higher quality than here in the US. If you put US gas in EU tuned cars then the engines are going to last even shorter.
A recon engine is not expensive and there a ton of company's in the UK that will change you engine out for a blue print engine in a few hours and away you drive. Cost about $1200 dollars. I see that will happen here. There will be a slide to 2 liter cars to get the fuel consumption but engines will need to changed much more regularly.
The reason UK cars are mostly all 1800 and 2000cc is that there is a tax break on the power of the car. So you will see tons of BMW 1800cc cars as company cars for sales reps because it's within the lower tax bracket. 3 liter and above suffer the high tax levels so they are normally purchased by executives as company cars. The number of cars sold at 3 liter and above to individuals are minimal.
The one advantage in the US are the freeways where we drive, much more at a constant speed etc. UK and especially London driving means that the engines get hammered in comparison through stop start traffic. I used to try and buy second hand German run cars that do a lot of autobahn miles....The engines are always in much better condition because they are not stop start.
I think if you want a Mustang then buy now because the options are not going to be the same in a couple of years. I have had a 4 pot UK Capri with is a similar shape to the mustang if you squint your eyes a lot..:-). All I can say is awful...then they made the V6 and I got the twin turbo charged model and it was light and day between them.
I know the engines today are much better than they used to be, but they still are not going to last anywhere near what US drivers are used to getting from v6's and v8's.
Being from the UK and my new Boss being my 73rd car I can tell you that 4 cylinder cars never last as long as V6's or V8's. In the UK we get a ton of power from 4 cylinder cars but you have to accept that the engine is only going to last 70/80,000 miles and then you need a recon engine put in. The difference is that US motors last much longer than EU cars being they are V8's and very under tuned as stock.
Remember that EU gas is a much higher quality than here in the US. If you put US gas in EU tuned cars then the engines are going to last even shorter.
A recon engine is not expensive and there a ton of company's in the UK that will change you engine out for a blue print engine in a few hours and away you drive. Cost about $1200 dollars. I see that will happen here. There will be a slide to 2 liter cars to get the fuel consumption but engines will need to changed much more regularly.
The reason UK cars are mostly all 1800 and 2000cc is that there is a tax break on the power of the car. So you will see tons of BMW 1800cc cars as company cars for sales reps because it's within the lower tax bracket. 3 liter and above suffer the high tax levels so they are normally purchased by executives as company cars. The number of cars sold at 3 liter and above to individuals are minimal.
The one advantage in the US are the freeways where we drive, much more at a constant speed etc. UK and especially London driving means that the engines get hammered in comparison through stop start traffic. I used to try and buy second hand German run cars that do a lot of autobahn miles....The engines are always in much better condition because they are not stop start.
I think if you want a Mustang then buy now because the options are not going to be the same in a couple of years. I have had a 4 pot UK Capri with is a similar shape to the mustang if you squint your eyes a lot..:-). All I can say is awful...then they made the V6 and I got the twin turbo charged model and it was light and day between them.
I know the engines today are much better than they used to be, but they still are not going to last anywhere near what US drivers are used to getting from v6's and v8's.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: September 23, 2008
Posts: 879
Likes: 0
BMW with their 2.0L TwinTurbo cars are already hitting 300hp with just a tune. Someone posted up running a 13.4 @104 mph with just a tune in the new 2012 328i. A 2.3L TwinTurbo DI car already in the 320hp range will be a screamer in the Mustang. Whether we like it or not, with the CAFE requirements coming down the pike we are going to see smaller displacement, force induction performance cars in the future.
Of course the devil is always in the details.
Dave
Of course the devil is always in the details.
Dave
Thread Starter
GTR Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,553
Likes: 11
From: England
Yes, there is very likely to be a 4 pot EcoBoost..........but the V8 isn't going anywhere. I can see the Coyote being downsized (in capacity, not cylinders) in the future, but I can't see that happening for at least a few years post the 2015 MY.
And I'd expect 120k+ miles on a 4-pot before it needs any serious work....assuming you keep on top of maintenance.
I too had a 4-cylinder Capri.....my 1987 1.6 Laser was my first RWD car and I loved it, underpowered as it was. I then moved onto several 2.8 Injections with the 160bhp V6. The perfect Capri, in my opinion
Mach 1 Member
Joined: September 9, 2004
Posts: 649
Likes: 1
Ford are getting rid of the V8 in the Mustangs. They are going to 4 pot ecoboost's. This is one of the reasons why the V8's are selling like they are. Its the end of an era. If you have never driven a 4 cylinder car then I can tell you that it's the worse, turbo charged or not. Yes a nice 4 cylinder MG for example was a nice car but had no guts and no go.
Being from the UK and my new Boss being my 73rd car I can tell you that 4 cylinder cars never last as long as V6's or V8's. In the UK we get a ton of power from 4 cylinder cars but you have to accept that the engine is only going to last 70/80,000 miles and then you need a recon engine put in. The difference is that US motors last much longer than EU cars being they are V8's and very under tuned as stock.
Remember that EU gas is a much higher quality than here in the US. If you put US gas in EU tuned cars then the engines are going to last even shorter.
A recon engine is not expensive and there a ton of company's in the UK that will change you engine out for a blue print engine in a few hours and away you drive. Cost about $1200 dollars. I see that will happen here. There will be a slide to 2 liter cars to get the fuel consumption but engines will need to changed much more regularly.
The reason UK cars are mostly all 1800 and 2000cc is that there is a tax break on the power of the car. So you will see tons of BMW 1800cc cars as company cars for sales reps because it's within the lower tax bracket. 3 liter and above suffer the high tax levels so they are normally purchased by executives as company cars. The number of cars sold at 3 liter and above to individuals are minimal.
The one advantage in the US are the freeways where we drive, much more at a constant speed etc. UK and especially London driving means that the engines get hammered in comparison through stop start traffic. I used to try and buy second hand German run cars that do a lot of autobahn miles....The engines are always in much better condition because they are not stop start.
I think if you want a Mustang then buy now because the options are not going to be the same in a couple of years. I have had a 4 pot UK Capri with is a similar shape to the mustang if you squint your eyes a lot..:-). All I can say is awful...then they made the V6 and I got the twin turbo charged model and it was light and day between them.
I know the engines today are much better than they used to be, but they still are not going to last anywhere near what US drivers are used to getting from v6's and v8's.
Being from the UK and my new Boss being my 73rd car I can tell you that 4 cylinder cars never last as long as V6's or V8's. In the UK we get a ton of power from 4 cylinder cars but you have to accept that the engine is only going to last 70/80,000 miles and then you need a recon engine put in. The difference is that US motors last much longer than EU cars being they are V8's and very under tuned as stock.
Remember that EU gas is a much higher quality than here in the US. If you put US gas in EU tuned cars then the engines are going to last even shorter.
A recon engine is not expensive and there a ton of company's in the UK that will change you engine out for a blue print engine in a few hours and away you drive. Cost about $1200 dollars. I see that will happen here. There will be a slide to 2 liter cars to get the fuel consumption but engines will need to changed much more regularly.
The reason UK cars are mostly all 1800 and 2000cc is that there is a tax break on the power of the car. So you will see tons of BMW 1800cc cars as company cars for sales reps because it's within the lower tax bracket. 3 liter and above suffer the high tax levels so they are normally purchased by executives as company cars. The number of cars sold at 3 liter and above to individuals are minimal.
The one advantage in the US are the freeways where we drive, much more at a constant speed etc. UK and especially London driving means that the engines get hammered in comparison through stop start traffic. I used to try and buy second hand German run cars that do a lot of autobahn miles....The engines are always in much better condition because they are not stop start.
I think if you want a Mustang then buy now because the options are not going to be the same in a couple of years. I have had a 4 pot UK Capri with is a similar shape to the mustang if you squint your eyes a lot..:-). All I can say is awful...then they made the V6 and I got the twin turbo charged model and it was light and day between them.
I know the engines today are much better than they used to be, but they still are not going to last anywhere near what US drivers are used to getting from v6's and v8's.
4 cylinder engines don't last as long as V6 or V8s?
Which 4s are you talking about? How about inline 6 cylinders? A Chevy Cobalt 4 or a Lexus 4? A Vega 4 or a Pinto 4? Sure, Lincoln Towncars and Crown Vics run forever, but so do Volvo 4s and Mercedes. It's nothing to see a U.S. Escort with 200K on it.
EU gas is a much higher quality than in the US?
Like Imperial Gallons, things are different over there. Your 92 octane is our 87. Other than Jeremy Clarkson saying so, you'll have to document that!
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kb.php?aid=124
FYI Back in the 60/70s when Ford exported Mustangs to Europe as the T-5 they were low-octane versions.
A reconditioned engine is not expensive? Is the UK on a different planet?
I'm pretty familiar with Capris. A neighbor had a 73 with the 2.6 V6, a roommate had a 77 with a 4. I had a 82 5.0 HO. Even the Aussie Capris were decades ago.
I know about your taxes on petro and CCs, I can't argue (for or against) with that. lol
Last edited by grrr428; Jul 1, 2012 at 08:16 AM.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: July 22, 2005
Posts: 800
Likes: 7
I'd rock a 300+ HP I4! I would like to see this lineup:
Base Mustang 2.0l I4 EB/250HP/3100# (For Daddy's Little Girl).
SE (think SVO) 2.3l I4 EB 330HP/3100#/Boss suspension/Recaro's
GT 5.0l 425HP/3300#
SE(Boss 302/Mach 1/Whatever) 5.0l DI 460HP/3300#
Shelby GT 500 5.0l TT 600+HP/3450#
Base Mustang 2.0l I4 EB/250HP/3100# (For Daddy's Little Girl).
SE (think SVO) 2.3l I4 EB 330HP/3100#/Boss suspension/Recaro's
GT 5.0l 425HP/3300#
SE(Boss 302/Mach 1/Whatever) 5.0l DI 460HP/3300#
Shelby GT 500 5.0l TT 600+HP/3450#
V6 Member
Joined: June 16, 2012
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
You sure we are talking about the same capri? I think there was a US Capri also right? Was it Ford or Murcury?
They didn't ever make a 2.6 in the Uk.... This is simlar to the one I had in the pic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Capri
There are 4 pot engines and 4 pot engines. An escort with 200,000 miles on it is unheard of in the UK. The problem is that once you start tuning a 4 pot to get any performance from it then engine life is limited. Before I got over here I had a Ford Granada Scrorpio, it was Ford's UK managing directors car before I got it. It looked like the one in the pic but black. It was a tremedous car, I had it on the French equivalent freeway at 140 a few times and it would handle it with ease.
Before that I had an RS Sierra Cosworth... Faster than the V6 Granada by a long way, but 4 pot turbo... What a drag that car was to drive and always had problems. Its the price you pay for small engines tuned up.
The thing I like about the Boss is that it's effortless. I can drive around in 5th if I put my foot down it feels like the car is not trying, it picks up and goes with no fuss and does it so well.
When I first got here to the States I heard friends say that they would never drive anyhing but V'8s....Privately I thought, just wait and see whent he fuel costs skyrocket here in the states, you will be changing your mind. Over the years I have been converted and even if the fuel is high I would hate to go back to 4 cyliner car, no matter what you do it feels rough..There is no feeling of quality.
I happened to drive one recently, A 2012 escape that was a 4 pot...It was aufull and just reminded me of what I was glad to get away from. I think people that buy Boss or simular cars appreciate driving. Some people wouldn't care what they drive, but I do believe that Americans will always want the smoothness and power of a V6 or 8 no matter what the fuel cost.
When Ford stop making them in the Mustangs it will be a huge mistake in my opinion. I would never buy a Mustang 4 pot ecoboost. I mean its not a Mustang anymore, it's a
cheap and cheerful replica.
Recon engines are expensive if you want to drive into a garage, go do someting for a few hours and come back and all is complete. I mean that includes everything on the engine, not just the block. Yes people can buy a cheap block and do it them selves, but most people don't want to or can't.
Volvo's and Mercedes are not perfomance cars uness you buy the top end, they are just work horses. You know that if you buy a BMW in the UK then the steering wheeel is an extra..! You have to choose and pay. No radio, no nothing in it's basic format. The reason is so that they can advertise against Ford,GM,etc and put comparitive prices in advertising. Once you go buy the car and in the dealership, you find all the hidden extra's like the steering wheell, radio, spare tire are all extra's to the base price.
These cars are never going to give you Mustang performance unless you buy the expensive models. Its funny how in the UK people think of a Volvo as a really boring, safe car that the local Vicar might drive, but here people like them. Low end
Mercedes are basically a minicabs, unless you buy a top end version.
Jeremy Clackson did you say?..lol...The entertainer....fun to watch but technically a muppet.
They didn't ever make a 2.6 in the Uk.... This is simlar to the one I had in the pic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Capri
There are 4 pot engines and 4 pot engines. An escort with 200,000 miles on it is unheard of in the UK. The problem is that once you start tuning a 4 pot to get any performance from it then engine life is limited. Before I got over here I had a Ford Granada Scrorpio, it was Ford's UK managing directors car before I got it. It looked like the one in the pic but black. It was a tremedous car, I had it on the French equivalent freeway at 140 a few times and it would handle it with ease.
Before that I had an RS Sierra Cosworth... Faster than the V6 Granada by a long way, but 4 pot turbo... What a drag that car was to drive and always had problems. Its the price you pay for small engines tuned up.
The thing I like about the Boss is that it's effortless. I can drive around in 5th if I put my foot down it feels like the car is not trying, it picks up and goes with no fuss and does it so well.
When I first got here to the States I heard friends say that they would never drive anyhing but V'8s....Privately I thought, just wait and see whent he fuel costs skyrocket here in the states, you will be changing your mind. Over the years I have been converted and even if the fuel is high I would hate to go back to 4 cyliner car, no matter what you do it feels rough..There is no feeling of quality.
I happened to drive one recently, A 2012 escape that was a 4 pot...It was aufull and just reminded me of what I was glad to get away from. I think people that buy Boss or simular cars appreciate driving. Some people wouldn't care what they drive, but I do believe that Americans will always want the smoothness and power of a V6 or 8 no matter what the fuel cost.
When Ford stop making them in the Mustangs it will be a huge mistake in my opinion. I would never buy a Mustang 4 pot ecoboost. I mean its not a Mustang anymore, it's a
cheap and cheerful replica.
Recon engines are expensive if you want to drive into a garage, go do someting for a few hours and come back and all is complete. I mean that includes everything on the engine, not just the block. Yes people can buy a cheap block and do it them selves, but most people don't want to or can't.
Volvo's and Mercedes are not perfomance cars uness you buy the top end, they are just work horses. You know that if you buy a BMW in the UK then the steering wheeel is an extra..! You have to choose and pay. No radio, no nothing in it's basic format. The reason is so that they can advertise against Ford,GM,etc and put comparitive prices in advertising. Once you go buy the car and in the dealership, you find all the hidden extra's like the steering wheell, radio, spare tire are all extra's to the base price.
These cars are never going to give you Mustang performance unless you buy the expensive models. Its funny how in the UK people think of a Volvo as a really boring, safe car that the local Vicar might drive, but here people like them. Low end
Mercedes are basically a minicabs, unless you buy a top end version.
Jeremy Clackson did you say?..lol...The entertainer....fun to watch but technically a muppet.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: September 9, 2004
Posts: 649
Likes: 1
You sure we are talking about the same capri? I think there was a US Capri also right? Was it Ford or Murcury?
They didn't ever make a 2.6 in the Uk.... This is simlar to the one I had in the pic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Capri
Jeremy Clackson did you say?..lol...The entertainer....fun to watch but technically a muppet.
They didn't ever make a 2.6 in the Uk.... This is simlar to the one I had in the pic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Capri
Jeremy Clackson did you say?..lol...The entertainer....fun to watch but technically a muppet.
In the Wiki link you provided they mention the 2.6 V6 engine. But here is a very original US spec 73 2.6.
http://www.capri-list.com/joomla/ind...869&Itemid=114
It was a UK/German Ford, imported as a Mercury here. It was about the same time as the Pantera was introduced here so there were a couple of very interesting imports in Mercury show rooms.
We got the Capri II also, but importation stopped in 1977. Sales had been very strong.....until the Pound/Dollar values changed and the Capri became very expensive to import. We didn't get your Mk III at all. But we got our own Capri for 1979. In 1982 when the "Boss is Back" 5.0 Mustang GT, the Capri also got the 5.0 option. It was my first new car ;-)
Now 4 cylinder cars make up over 50% of new car sales in the US. Things have changed. But so has reliability. V8s may have a edge in longevity over 4s. But not by much these days.
I remember years ago seeing mileage charts for used cars, where the V8 would have more "acceptable" mileage per year. They were also broken down by vehicle size. So if you had a 75 Mercury Marquis with a 460, it was assumed it would outlast a 2.3 Bobcat.
Last edited by grrr428; Jul 1, 2012 at 02:45 PM.