tires or suspension
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tires or suspension
Hey everyone just wanted some opinions on whether I should get tires or suspension first. I do occasional autocross so I don't know what will be more towards my benefit, I also already have some amr wheels just don't know if I should hold up on tires.
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I would suggest suspension. I went from the Pirelli P Zero's (bull in my opinion) to Kumho Ecsta 4x front and Continental Extreme Contact DWS back. After doing suspension I was faster with All Seasons then with the ultra high po summer tires. I would also make the argument for suspension because you will probably benefit more for the same price but get more from it.
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I have to disagree here. Tires, will make the biggest difference...assuming you get good ones. The P'Zero has a very soft side wall and really is not that grippy. So they will cause the car to push like crazy and if driven hard the Fronts will be toast after 4-5 Auto-X events...I know from experience. Even if you were to get suspension first, depending on what your upgrading, the car still might not improve much because your tires simply cant hold traction.
My advise, go buy some good tires! Not sure what size wheels you have...hopefully 18's as the choices and costs are far better.
In 18's look for...
Dunlop Direzza Z2 or BF Goodrich Rival
If 19's the Goodyear Eagle F1 supercar is probably your best option.
My advise, go buy some good tires! Not sure what size wheels you have...hopefully 18's as the choices and costs are far better.
In 18's look for...
Dunlop Direzza Z2 or BF Goodrich Rival
If 19's the Goodyear Eagle F1 supercar is probably your best option.
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I agree about the tires but if your car is at stock height, I would lower it just for aesthetic reasons mainly. Stock is just too high. Don't expect a hell of a lot of gain at the course though. Tires make all the difference. Only once you find a set of tires that stay planted, will you really need more suspension. Too many people will upgrade a suspension system and run stock junk tires.
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thanks for the replies guys, I think I might get tires first because after autocrossing this car, the tires just feel too "spongy". No matter how hard i would try I just couldn't make it plant at all. My next question now is how thick should I go 45 or 40?
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If you do an occasional autocross, spend time getting faster on your stock tires, then switch to the same size tires, assuming you are not changing your wheel sizes.
In my experience, you are better off learning to manage the weight transfer by smoothing your steering and braking inputs to balance at the edge of grip until you can consistently do this.
When you say "plant", are you saying you noticed a squirming feeling when you were changing directions and that you are looking to lessen that sensation?
In my experience, you are better off learning to manage the weight transfer by smoothing your steering and braking inputs to balance at the edge of grip until you can consistently do this.
When you say "plant", are you saying you noticed a squirming feeling when you were changing directions and that you are looking to lessen that sensation?
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When I would exit corners or come into long straights I had to really baby the gas pedal because it would not grip whatsoever, the wheels would just start screeching and spinning. When I mean baby it I mean only half pedal. I'm really hating the stock tires. I could even feel all the flex in them during corners adding to the heavy body roll the car has.
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What size are your tires?
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the thing is that the courses here are set up with too many tight hairpins preceded by long straights. The problem is that you must slow down almost to a stop to make it through, to make things worse there are cone bordering the outside of the corners but real tight making it hard for a car this size. Lots of the smaller cars fair well such as miatas and corvettes. My tires are 235/50/18.
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the thing is that the courses here are set up with too many tight hairpins preceded by long straights. The problem is that you must slow down almost to a stop to make it through, to make things worse there are cone bordering the outside of the corners but real tight making it hard for a car this size. Lots of the smaller cars fair well such as miatas and corvettes.
A stickier tire would likely help you enter the corner with a higher speed so you don't slide (slows down your time), but practicing this type of corner over and over would likely help more.
As others have noted, you are more likely going to see a big-for-the-buck with a grippier tire (your time would hopefully come down by several seconds, depending on the course). However, the S197 cars are just big for a typical autocross course, and there's a lot of pronounced weight transfer going on with the stock suspension.
I suggest consistency in your mastering the dynamics of your stock suspension and tires, followed by grippier tires, followed by suspension would move your toward being more competitive. I've seen enough people throw hardware at their cars and still have times that weren't in the running simply because they weren't smooth and overloaded the suspension and slide.
Once you start messing with suspensions, however, it gets more involved because you can be bumped out of a stock class where then you definitely start down the path of spending more time and money and chasing tenths and hundredths of a second
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PS - I think ConeBoss's post makes a great point!
Last edited by Tony Alonso; 4/4/13 at 07:59 PM.
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Thanks for the replies everyone, I think I just need some getting used to with this s197 platform. I used to be very competitive in autocross with a Mazda 3 hatch (non turbo) I could actually make the same times as many higher end cars as BMWs porches wrxs and STIs.
I will try the tires and see how it goes.
I will try the tires and see how it goes.
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Silver, not to sway you from the auto x's, because as stated above they can really improve your understanding of the car but at low speeds so the danger is a lot less than on a track. However, I would suggest also trying a track day with the local SCCA/NASA or another car club, they are also extremely addicting.
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I am fairly sure you can find lots of information on the latest models that might be well suited to autocross applications be searching SCCA forums or The Tire Rack website.
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Silver, not to sway you from the auto x's, because as stated above they can really improve your understanding of the car but at low speeds so the danger is a lot less than on a track. However, I would suggest also trying a track day with the local SCCA/NASA or another car club, they are also extremely addicting.
Of course, then you start getting into worrying more about brakes because of the speed differential. However, what a blast to hit the apex and carry through your momentum with a pointed and controlled stab of the brakes while yelling "yahoo"
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They are fun, and road courses provide that all-too-precious room for the bigger cars to exercise their tuning.
Of course, then you start getting into worrying more about brakes because of the speed differential. However, what a blast to hit the apex and carry through your momentum with a pointed and controlled stab of the brakes while yelling "yahoo"![Smile](https://themustangsource.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Of course, then you start getting into worrying more about brakes because of the speed differential. However, what a blast to hit the apex and carry through your momentum with a pointed and controlled stab of the brakes while yelling "yahoo"
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#18
A typical Auto-X event will cost $50 and wear and tear on the car is minimal. Is it as much fun...maybe not. But it is still very fun!
I used to do the occasional Auto-X and save my money for 3-4 track days a year. But since really committing to Auto-X I find my skills as a driver have progressed significantly faster. I can think of no safer/cheaper environment to hone ones skills and learn the limits of their car. Also, once you get to know folks in your Auto-X community it becomes pretty easy to swap rides or barrow someone else's car for a run or two. Something that will rarely or ever happen on a full race course...unless you pay for it.
Last edited by ConeBoss; 4/9/13 at 10:46 AM.
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I would suggest suspension. I went from the Pirelli P Zero's (bull in my opinion) to Kumho Ecsta 4x front and Continental Extreme Contact DWS back. After doing suspension I was faster with All Seasons then with the ultra high po summer tires. I would also make the argument for suspension because you will probably benefit more for the same price but get more from it.
The suspension swap improved the high speed capabilities of the car (mainly how it handled rough roads at very high speeds) The tires on the other hand really improved overall grip.
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