transmission and rear diff issues.....Need help with dealership not warrantying
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Bullitt Member
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transmission and rear diff issues.....Need help with dealership not warrantying
I had my car taken into the local dealership to look at the transmission for my shifting issues as well as the clutch sticking to the floor during track driving. I also had them look at the rear diff as it was making a metallic rubbing noise. I know the diff will make some noise but it now makes a metallic rubbing noise, almost like rubbing two brake pads together, that it did not originally do and it has gotten louder.
You can hear the diff under 40mph, and I told them you will not be able to duplicate the transmission issue as it only happens on the track in a high performance driving scenario and is intermittent. I went on to tell them NOT to attempt to duplicate the shifting issues as I didn't want them shifting at 7500 rpms into 5th or rev matching and downshifting into third on the street in town...... Again, you can hear the diff.
Well I get an email saying the tech drove the car and they can't get it to duplicate the issue with the trans or rear diff...... They go on to state that they cannot inspect the throwout bearing which I asked them to do as a Ford engineer told me to do that. Nor check the trans fluid for material. Also they can't open the diff and inspect the gears or fluid. They stated because they don't have a suspicion of a problem that Ford won't pay them for the warranty work.
I am not asking or demanding anything be replaced under warranty. I am asking that it gets INSPECTED by looking at a throwout bearing, which was suggested by a Ford engineer, and inspecting fluid from the trans and rear diff as well as visually inspecting the rear diff, again suggested by a Ford engineer. I would think this is common sense repair procedure. If they find nothing wrong than so be it. I will be fine with that.
I will keep everyone updated as I escalate the issues within Ford.
You can hear the diff under 40mph, and I told them you will not be able to duplicate the transmission issue as it only happens on the track in a high performance driving scenario and is intermittent. I went on to tell them NOT to attempt to duplicate the shifting issues as I didn't want them shifting at 7500 rpms into 5th or rev matching and downshifting into third on the street in town...... Again, you can hear the diff.
Well I get an email saying the tech drove the car and they can't get it to duplicate the issue with the trans or rear diff...... They go on to state that they cannot inspect the throwout bearing which I asked them to do as a Ford engineer told me to do that. Nor check the trans fluid for material. Also they can't open the diff and inspect the gears or fluid. They stated because they don't have a suspicion of a problem that Ford won't pay them for the warranty work.
I am not asking or demanding anything be replaced under warranty. I am asking that it gets INSPECTED by looking at a throwout bearing, which was suggested by a Ford engineer, and inspecting fluid from the trans and rear diff as well as visually inspecting the rear diff, again suggested by a Ford engineer. I would think this is common sense repair procedure. If they find nothing wrong than so be it. I will be fine with that.
I will keep everyone updated as I escalate the issues within Ford.
Last edited by adam81; May 4, 2012 at 03:37 PM.
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Joined: December 21, 2007
Posts: 254
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From: Raleigh NC
I had my car taken into the local dealership to look at the transmission for my shifting issues as well as the clutch sticking to the floor during track driving. I also had them look at the rear diff as it was making a metallic rubbing noise. I know the diff will make some noise but it now makes a metallic rubbing noise, almost like rubbing two brake pads together, that it did not originally do and it has gotten louder.
You can hear the diff under 40mph, and I told them you will not be able to duplicate the transmission issue as it only happens on the track in a high performance driving scenario and is intermittent. I went on to tell them NOT to attempt to duplicate the shifting issues as I didn't want them shifting at 7500 rpms into 5th or rev matching and downshifting into third on the street in town...... Again, you can hear the diff.
Well I get an email saying the tech drove the car and they can't get it to duplicate the issue with the trans or rear diff...... They go on to state that they cannot inspect the throwout bearing which I asked them to do as a Ford engineer told me to do that. Nor check the trans fluid for material. Also they can't open the diff and inspect the gears or fluid. They stated because they don't have a suspicion of a problem that Ford won't pay them for the warranty work.
I am not asking or demanding anything be replaced under warranty. I am asking that it gets INSPECTED by looking at a throwout bearing, which was suggested by a Ford engineer, and inspecting fluid from the trans and rear diff as well as visually inspecting the rear diff, again suggested by a Ford engineer. I would think this is common sense repair procedure. If they find nothing wrong than so be it. I will be fine with that.
What do I need to do or who do I need to contact at Ford to get this taken care of. I have never had to deal with this type of incompetence from a dealership and I am unsure of what my options are as far as getting Ford involved in the matter. I am traveling for work right now and won't be home for a while. This may have been a good thing considering.... Obviously right now I am not happy with this dealership at all..... However I need them to take care of this issue, and they have my car. The next dealership is quite far away and I wouldn't be able to get the car to them.
You can hear the diff under 40mph, and I told them you will not be able to duplicate the transmission issue as it only happens on the track in a high performance driving scenario and is intermittent. I went on to tell them NOT to attempt to duplicate the shifting issues as I didn't want them shifting at 7500 rpms into 5th or rev matching and downshifting into third on the street in town...... Again, you can hear the diff.
Well I get an email saying the tech drove the car and they can't get it to duplicate the issue with the trans or rear diff...... They go on to state that they cannot inspect the throwout bearing which I asked them to do as a Ford engineer told me to do that. Nor check the trans fluid for material. Also they can't open the diff and inspect the gears or fluid. They stated because they don't have a suspicion of a problem that Ford won't pay them for the warranty work.
I am not asking or demanding anything be replaced under warranty. I am asking that it gets INSPECTED by looking at a throwout bearing, which was suggested by a Ford engineer, and inspecting fluid from the trans and rear diff as well as visually inspecting the rear diff, again suggested by a Ford engineer. I would think this is common sense repair procedure. If they find nothing wrong than so be it. I will be fine with that.
What do I need to do or who do I need to contact at Ford to get this taken care of. I have never had to deal with this type of incompetence from a dealership and I am unsure of what my options are as far as getting Ford involved in the matter. I am traveling for work right now and won't be home for a while. This may have been a good thing considering.... Obviously right now I am not happy with this dealership at all..... However I need them to take care of this issue, and they have my car. The next dealership is quite far away and I wouldn't be able to get the car to them.
As far as getting paid for warranty work I can understand them saying that because they do not have any evidence your car is having problems. That's why I say take them out for a ride. I have been in your situation too may times.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
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I agree with badasbullit. Take them for a ride and duplicate it for them. They really can't authorize an inspection, which would consequently do a fluid change on the tranny or diff without them knowing it will be covered by ford.
V6 Member
Joined: September 28, 2011
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From: Austin, TX
Def PM Deysha. She jumped in when I had the tire delamination issue that the dealer didn't want to cover. Within a day, the TX rep from Ford had contacted me and the dealer and it was done.
V6 Member
Joined: November 15, 2011
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From: texas
Just A FYI, I know this car was built as a track day car and all,.... but you would be surprised at what some dealerships don't know about our car and its purpose and the door may close or get slowed down for warranty,....my suggestion to you is to NOT tell them your shifting at 7.5k and thrashing it on the track as Joe Blow local Ford dealership may not understand and it may send up red flags of ignorance with some at said dealership,.....as far as they need to know you drive it on Sunday to take grandma to church,......my dealership knew nothing about the Boss and even less about my LS ,... I had to explain trackey,....how to order it, who to order it from...etc.etc.....luckily I got their in time before they mounted front license bracket. Not saying that all dealerships are like mine but there is alot of them out there that only know the bullet points of a brochure.
Last edited by cf6mech; Apr 26, 2012 at 08:14 PM.
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I read a thread (here or elsewhere) months ago on these slave cylinder throwout bearing combo units inside the bell housing. It seems rather common to have problems with them on the track at high rpm regardless of make or model. The solution I saw was to flush and replace the brake fluid that operates it. The theory is that debris gets past the seals into the slave cylinder and that in turn effects fluid flow. The end result is a clutch system that doesn't work correctly. The term used was 'clutch woes' and search of the web should turn up info.
Found the video:
http://www.rangeracceleration.com/Clutch_Care.html
Found the video:
GT Member
Joined: June 15, 2011
Posts: 134
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From: Ft Worth
If they are anything like the dealers here in North TX they do not have the propoer tools to open your Transmission. 6 days my car has been at the dealership waiting on "speacial tools" to open up my transmission.
My car had the same trans issue as yours but a little worse and I only have 600miles.
When they pulled the trans on Monday I went in to look at the slave cylinder and what I found was the bearing in front of it had 1\4 inch of slack in it when moved back to front. I suspect this is the noise I heard from my trans since day 1. Now its just a waiting game for the tools to show up so that the tech can open it and then we will see if Ford will replace the whole trans or just the broken parts.
Good luck buddy! I feel your pain!
My car had the same trans issue as yours but a little worse and I only have 600miles.
When they pulled the trans on Monday I went in to look at the slave cylinder and what I found was the bearing in front of it had 1\4 inch of slack in it when moved back to front. I suspect this is the noise I heard from my trans since day 1. Now its just a waiting game for the tools to show up so that the tech can open it and then we will see if Ford will replace the whole trans or just the broken parts.
Good luck buddy! I feel your pain!
Last edited by c6dreamvette; Apr 28, 2012 at 09:42 AM.
GT Member
Joined: June 15, 2011
Posts: 134
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From: Ft Worth
I read a thread (here or elsewhere) months ago on these slave cylinder throwout bearing combo units inside the bell housing. It seems rather common to have problems with them on the track at high rpm regardless of make or model. The solution I saw was to flush and replace the brake fluid that operates it. The theory is that debris gets past the seals into the slave cylinder and that in turn effects fluid flow. The end result is a clutch system that doesn't work correctly. The term used was 'clutch woes' and search of the web should turn up info.
Found the video: Take Care of Your Clutch--the Ranger Protocol - YouTube
http://www.rangeracceleration.com/Clutch_Care.html
Found the video: Take Care of Your Clutch--the Ranger Protocol - YouTube
http://www.rangeracceleration.com/Clutch_Care.html
FR500 Member
Joined: July 1, 2008
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From: Oxford, UK
My car had the diff problem. They test drove it with the rear seat down and me in the car, they then put it up on the lift and ran it to check with the chassis ears, they suspected the bearings though I know bearings sound different.
It was my ring and pinion, the gears were pitted. I'll dig up the picture.
EDIT: here you go, zoomed in real close for detail.
It was my ring and pinion, the gears were pitted. I'll dig up the picture.
EDIT: here you go, zoomed in real close for detail.
Last edited by PTRocks; Apr 28, 2012 at 03:18 PM.
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When I first learned of this system I wondered how it would keep clutch dust out. The answer appears that it doesn't. It is one thing to have a piston travel outwards to push on something like with a brake caliper or external clutch slave cylinder. Put a bellows over it and call it a day. When it is traveling over a shaft it would take a rather clever design to wipe the shaft clean of the fine dust each time. Otherwise some dust is going to work its way into the system eventually.
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Joined: October 29, 2010
Posts: 964
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From: Florida
My car had the diff problem. They test drove it with the rear seat down and me in the car, they then put it up on the lift and ran it to check with the chassis ears, they suspected the bearings though I know bearings sound different.
It was my ring and pinion, the gears were pitted. I'll dig up the picture.
EDIT: here you go, zoomed in real close for detail.
It was my ring and pinion, the gears were pitted. I'll dig up the picture.
EDIT: here you go, zoomed in real close for detail.
GT Member
Joined: June 15, 2011
Posts: 134
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From: Ft Worth
My car had the diff problem. They test drove it with the rear seat down and me in the car, they then put it up on the lift and ran it to check with the chassis ears, they suspected the bearings though I know bearings sound different.
It was my ring and pinion, the gears were pitted. I'll dig up the picture.
EDIT: here you go, zoomed in real close for detail.
It was my ring and pinion, the gears were pitted. I'll dig up the picture.
EDIT: here you go, zoomed in real close for detail.
Maybe it was pitted from day 1..........
Good luck I hope they get you all fixed up!
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Joined: July 16, 2010
Posts: 864
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Yes provided the corvette doesn't work backwards they got the travel wrong because the cylinder is in the extended position (because of what appears to be a return spring in the assembly under the bellows) when they were looking at it. However, it is irrelevant to the point, which is that clutch dust gets past the seals.
When I first learned of this system I wondered how it would keep clutch dust out. The answer appears that it doesn't. It is one thing to have a piston travel outwards to push on something like with a brake caliper or external clutch slave cylinder. Put a bellows over it and call it a day. When it is traveling over a shaft it would take a rather clever design to wipe the shaft clean of the fine dust each time. Otherwise some dust is going to work its way into the system eventually.
When I first learned of this system I wondered how it would keep clutch dust out. The answer appears that it doesn't. It is one thing to have a piston travel outwards to push on something like with a brake caliper or external clutch slave cylinder. Put a bellows over it and call it a day. When it is traveling over a shaft it would take a rather clever design to wipe the shaft clean of the fine dust each time. Otherwise some dust is going to work its way into the system eventually.
You're correct it is irrelevant to the point of contamination. I did have to mention it because I have seen a few other posts where people got it wrong. I even called Spec and asked because my clutch wouldn't release all the way and the idiot who answered the phone didn't understand how the slave worked. He told me you don't want the throw out bearing to ride on the fingers which was true 20 years ago but not on these cars with this slave. I shimmed my slave an 1/8" and the shift improvement was absolutely mind blowing. I just installed a 6060 in my car and the pre-load on the slave is 3/8" more than the slave with the 3650 and it works terrific.
I find it hard to believe that slave allows the dust to get past the seal like that. I'll have to tear one apart and check for myself.
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Joined: April 30, 2012
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From: Los angeles, CA
I have problems as well, on my 5.0, shifting from 2nd to 3rd or from 3rd to 4th, usually entering freeway on ramps, took it to the dealer, they said they cannot duplicate the problem. Complete BS because I almost crashed twice, usually happens at over 5,000 rpm range.
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CALLING DEYSHA !!!!!!! I sent three PMs and not a word..... Please help!
The dealership has tried to contact the engineers almost a week ago and the engineers haven't gotten back to them. They haven't even spoken.....
The dealership has tried to contact the engineers almost a week ago and the engineers haven't gotten back to them. They haven't even spoken.....
Last edited by adam81; May 3, 2012 at 12:46 PM.
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First of all big thanks to Deysha for getting the ball rolling. Once we finally talked I had an email within the day from the regional customer service manager.
However.............
They will not do anything under warranty. The customer service manager said because the dealership cannot duplicate the issues it will not be covered.
And when I say won’t be covered I mean they won’t do a THING! They won’t look at anything, take off an inspection plate, look at the fluid, nothing….. I am sure they visually inspected it and turned some wheels and the driveshaft and went through the gears etc. The general basic stuff. But they won’t do any type of REAL inspections.
A couple of quick points:
1. The transmission shifting issues only happens on the track and are intermittent. I never have problems on the street. A tech would have to sit shotgun for an entire track day for me to be able to show them what is going on. I told them this…. But again they can’t duplicate it driving it on the street (nor could they, or I for that matter) so they won’t do anything about it….
2. This is the SECOND time the car has been in for the rear diff noise and the clutch sticking to the floor.
3. The rear diff noise was heard by the tech the FIRST time the car was taken in. He thought it was normal. I told him it never made the noise until one day it just started. He just shrugged.... Now it is louder but now they can’t hear it???
4. The first time the car was in the tech drove first and could not duplicate the clutch sticking to the floor. I drove and had it happen. He confirmed it and said he would talk to Ford and they would get back to me. They never did…. Now they can’t duplicate it so they won’t do anything about it….
5. I am not asking them to do anything except actually INSPECT the car. I was told by TWO FORD ENGINEERS, both intimately involved with the Boss, to bring the car in and have the dealership:
1. inspect the throw out bearing for the clutch sticking to the floor
2. drain and inspect the trans fluid and refill with fresh fluid for the shifting issues
3. pull off the diff cover to inspect the diff and fluid and refill with fresh fluid for the noise
To say I have a bad taste in my mouth right now is an understatement. I am still working with the regional customer service manager and I will keep you all updated. I must say the dealership has been fine to work with, and so far the regional manager has been good too.
It just seems that Ford’s policies/rules say “If a dealership cannot duplicate the problem under no circumstance will we do anything”. This seems completely unreasonable considering they sell and advertise a car for the track that will most likely have issues that happen only in a track environment. I believe the dealership’s hands are tied here, and possibly the customer service manager’s as well. However I would think he would have some authority to do something….
Funny thing……. I never had this issue with Nissan (truck and car) or Honda (wife’s van) dealerships….. They would at least do some sort of inspection on the issue. As of right now Ford will do NOTHING???
However.............
They will not do anything under warranty. The customer service manager said because the dealership cannot duplicate the issues it will not be covered.
And when I say won’t be covered I mean they won’t do a THING! They won’t look at anything, take off an inspection plate, look at the fluid, nothing….. I am sure they visually inspected it and turned some wheels and the driveshaft and went through the gears etc. The general basic stuff. But they won’t do any type of REAL inspections.
A couple of quick points:
1. The transmission shifting issues only happens on the track and are intermittent. I never have problems on the street. A tech would have to sit shotgun for an entire track day for me to be able to show them what is going on. I told them this…. But again they can’t duplicate it driving it on the street (nor could they, or I for that matter) so they won’t do anything about it….
2. This is the SECOND time the car has been in for the rear diff noise and the clutch sticking to the floor.
3. The rear diff noise was heard by the tech the FIRST time the car was taken in. He thought it was normal. I told him it never made the noise until one day it just started. He just shrugged.... Now it is louder but now they can’t hear it???
4. The first time the car was in the tech drove first and could not duplicate the clutch sticking to the floor. I drove and had it happen. He confirmed it and said he would talk to Ford and they would get back to me. They never did…. Now they can’t duplicate it so they won’t do anything about it….
5. I am not asking them to do anything except actually INSPECT the car. I was told by TWO FORD ENGINEERS, both intimately involved with the Boss, to bring the car in and have the dealership:
1. inspect the throw out bearing for the clutch sticking to the floor
2. drain and inspect the trans fluid and refill with fresh fluid for the shifting issues
3. pull off the diff cover to inspect the diff and fluid and refill with fresh fluid for the noise
To say I have a bad taste in my mouth right now is an understatement. I am still working with the regional customer service manager and I will keep you all updated. I must say the dealership has been fine to work with, and so far the regional manager has been good too.
It just seems that Ford’s policies/rules say “If a dealership cannot duplicate the problem under no circumstance will we do anything”. This seems completely unreasonable considering they sell and advertise a car for the track that will most likely have issues that happen only in a track environment. I believe the dealership’s hands are tied here, and possibly the customer service manager’s as well. However I would think he would have some authority to do something….
Funny thing……. I never had this issue with Nissan (truck and car) or Honda (wife’s van) dealerships….. They would at least do some sort of inspection on the issue. As of right now Ford will do NOTHING???
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From: Central Mass.
It comes down to the dealer saying to himself "Who's going to pay for / reimburse me for this ? "
Unfortunately, changing rear end and tranny fluid is something you can do yourself, although you shouldnt have to.
Can you compromise with them and offer to pay some minimal labor charge or offer to pay for the fluids if they do it ?
Unfortunately, changing rear end and tranny fluid is something you can do yourself, although you shouldnt have to.
Can you compromise with them and offer to pay some minimal labor charge or offer to pay for the fluids if they do it ?