Swapped from HP+ to Carbotech pads and broke in my Speedbleeder
2/12/12, 07:15 AM
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Swapped from HP+ to Carbotech pads and broke in my Speedbleeder
i spent pretty much all day yesterday messing with the car. i removed those crappy Hawk HP+ not so tracky track pads and swapped over to my carbotech XP8 and Bobcat front pads. i have the carbotech RP2 that i will swap to at the track.
the pad install was very easy on the front, I don't think it will take too long to swap at the track, maybe a half hour total. i ordered a cheapo Kawasaki branded 12V impact wrench to run off the DC outlet in the car to make the swaps even easier at the track and it surprisingly worked exceptionally well. You have to cut any corners you can if you are going to be pad swapping in the Texas summer heat! If you are tired of using a normal lug wrench, this may be something you want to look into. Had no problems at all removing 100ft-lb torqued lug nuts and did the deed in about half the time it takes by hand.
the worst part about the brake pads was the piston on the rear pads. i used that crappy little cube tool and cursed a lot. Thankfully, i don't expect to replace those rear pads more than once a year. i used XP8 on the rear. i will say they squealed a lot on the street. Granted it was 34-degrees once i was done last night. it will be back up to 70 next week so i will wait before i complain much since some squeal was certainly due to the cold. the bobcat fronts had a bit of squeal in the cold.
Carbotech did tell me i had to get all the old pad material off the rotors from the HP+ pads. I used my trusty Dremel and went through three stainless steel cleaning brushes to remove the old material. That worked like a charm. I also took the opportunity to remove the rear dust shields, which i had forgot about all this time. Thankfully i bought both the XP8 and RP2 pads pre-bedded so they will be ready to go at the track.
i also swapped over to Brembo LCF600+ fluid and used my motive speed bleeder. OMG that thing is awesome, it makes bleeding the brakes infinitely easier than using that cheaper mightvac. i didn't take back the mightvac though, as someone else mentioned it is perfect for sucking old fluid out of the res. It's hose will fit down inside the res to suck out all but the tiniest bit of fluid inside. i may have killed it though, anytime i am working with brake fluid all my brain tells me is "don't get it on the paint, don't get it on the paint" i was watching for leaks and didn't realize the bottle was full in about 20 seconds and slurped a bit into the mightvac.
i filled the speed bleeder with 3.5 bottles of the brembo fluid after filling the res back up with LCF. As it turns out even letting each valve bleed for about five or more minutes, i ended up throwing away probably two bottles of brembo fluid. At $20 per bottle, that stung more than a little. If you slurp it all out of the res with a turkey baster or a mightvac, don't put the recommended amount of fluid in the speed bleeder. i would imagine i only used about 1.5 bottles of fluid.
It was very hard to tell when the old fluid was out and the new was in. the willwood fluid had a much more gold tint to it than the new brembo which was only slightly tinted so i had to just watch for the fluid to get clearer.
Once i wrapped up and got the car out on the street the difference in pedal feel between the brembo fluid and the wilwood was immediately noticeable. I was always a bit bothered that with the wilwood in the car when i did my threshold braking, the pedal was about a quarter of an inch or so under the level of the throttle. that meant on more than on occasion i accidentally had the throttle down after blipping it without realizing, because the brake was under the level of the throttle.
the reason i went with the brembo LCF + is because it has less compressability than other fluids. The pedal travel with the new fluid is much more firm and is at full abs activation when slightly above the throttle so my accidentally stepping on the throttle during heel-toe shouldn't happen. I am attributing the better pedal feel and higher pedal travel abs engagement to the Brembo fluid since no air came out of any of the bleeder valves during the bleeding.
the pad install was very easy on the front, I don't think it will take too long to swap at the track, maybe a half hour total. i ordered a cheapo Kawasaki branded 12V impact wrench to run off the DC outlet in the car to make the swaps even easier at the track and it surprisingly worked exceptionally well. You have to cut any corners you can if you are going to be pad swapping in the Texas summer heat! If you are tired of using a normal lug wrench, this may be something you want to look into. Had no problems at all removing 100ft-lb torqued lug nuts and did the deed in about half the time it takes by hand.
the worst part about the brake pads was the piston on the rear pads. i used that crappy little cube tool and cursed a lot. Thankfully, i don't expect to replace those rear pads more than once a year. i used XP8 on the rear. i will say they squealed a lot on the street. Granted it was 34-degrees once i was done last night. it will be back up to 70 next week so i will wait before i complain much since some squeal was certainly due to the cold. the bobcat fronts had a bit of squeal in the cold.
Carbotech did tell me i had to get all the old pad material off the rotors from the HP+ pads. I used my trusty Dremel and went through three stainless steel cleaning brushes to remove the old material. That worked like a charm. I also took the opportunity to remove the rear dust shields, which i had forgot about all this time. Thankfully i bought both the XP8 and RP2 pads pre-bedded so they will be ready to go at the track.
i also swapped over to Brembo LCF600+ fluid and used my motive speed bleeder. OMG that thing is awesome, it makes bleeding the brakes infinitely easier than using that cheaper mightvac. i didn't take back the mightvac though, as someone else mentioned it is perfect for sucking old fluid out of the res. It's hose will fit down inside the res to suck out all but the tiniest bit of fluid inside. i may have killed it though, anytime i am working with brake fluid all my brain tells me is "don't get it on the paint, don't get it on the paint" i was watching for leaks and didn't realize the bottle was full in about 20 seconds and slurped a bit into the mightvac.
i filled the speed bleeder with 3.5 bottles of the brembo fluid after filling the res back up with LCF. As it turns out even letting each valve bleed for about five or more minutes, i ended up throwing away probably two bottles of brembo fluid. At $20 per bottle, that stung more than a little. If you slurp it all out of the res with a turkey baster or a mightvac, don't put the recommended amount of fluid in the speed bleeder. i would imagine i only used about 1.5 bottles of fluid.
It was very hard to tell when the old fluid was out and the new was in. the willwood fluid had a much more gold tint to it than the new brembo which was only slightly tinted so i had to just watch for the fluid to get clearer.
Once i wrapped up and got the car out on the street the difference in pedal feel between the brembo fluid and the wilwood was immediately noticeable. I was always a bit bothered that with the wilwood in the car when i did my threshold braking, the pedal was about a quarter of an inch or so under the level of the throttle. that meant on more than on occasion i accidentally had the throttle down after blipping it without realizing, because the brake was under the level of the throttle.
the reason i went with the brembo LCF + is because it has less compressability than other fluids. The pedal travel with the new fluid is much more firm and is at full abs activation when slightly above the throttle so my accidentally stepping on the throttle during heel-toe shouldn't happen. I am attributing the better pedal feel and higher pedal travel abs engagement to the Brembo fluid since no air came out of any of the bleeder valves during the bleeding.
Last edited by ShaneM; 2/12/12 at 07:20 AM.
2/12/12, 07:41 AM
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Shane
Which rear number did you get? 1082 or the other number?
Ever find out whats different between those?
I use a 20cc syringe and big long needle to pull the fluid out of the reservoir before fluid swaps. Lots of good ideas out there.
Glad to hear you like the Carbotechs. I took the XP10 off the front for street duty--couldn't stand the squeal. I had the rotors turned for $10 each and put the factory pads back on. Hope the XP8 on the rear will behave for street, if not, stockers will go back on there too.
I've been thinking about an impact to--its cool up here, but I'm lazy.
Yesterday I looked at a Klutch in Northern Tool. Nice thing is no cords running around the car. But its 3x the price. If yours does the job and chasing the cord isn't a pain, its a bargain.
Here's the Klutch:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...2146_200442146
Which rear number did you get? 1082 or the other number?
Ever find out whats different between those?
I use a 20cc syringe and big long needle to pull the fluid out of the reservoir before fluid swaps. Lots of good ideas out there.
Glad to hear you like the Carbotechs. I took the XP10 off the front for street duty--couldn't stand the squeal. I had the rotors turned for $10 each and put the factory pads back on. Hope the XP8 on the rear will behave for street, if not, stockers will go back on there too.
I've been thinking about an impact to--its cool up here, but I'm lazy.
Yesterday I looked at a Klutch in Northern Tool. Nice thing is no cords running around the car. But its 3x the price. If yours does the job and chasing the cord isn't a pain, its a bargain.
Here's the Klutch:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...2146_200442146
2/12/12, 08:15 AM
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Shane
Which rear number did you get? 1082 or the other number?
Ever find out whats different between those?
I use a 20cc syringe and big long needle to pull the fluid out of the reservoir before fluid swaps. Lots of good ideas out there.
Glad to hear you like the Carbotechs. I took the XP10 off the front for street duty--couldn't stand the squeal. I had the rotors turned for $10 each and put the factory pads back on. Hope the XP8 on the rear will behave for street, if not, stockers will go back on there too.
I've been thinking about an impact to--its cool up here, but I'm lazy.
Yesterday I looked at a Klutch in Northern Tool. Nice thing is no cords running around the car. But its 3x the price. If yours does the job and chasing the cord isn't a pain, its a bargain.
Here's the Klutch:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...2146_200442146
Which rear number did you get? 1082 or the other number?
Ever find out whats different between those?
I use a 20cc syringe and big long needle to pull the fluid out of the reservoir before fluid swaps. Lots of good ideas out there.
Glad to hear you like the Carbotechs. I took the XP10 off the front for street duty--couldn't stand the squeal. I had the rotors turned for $10 each and put the factory pads back on. Hope the XP8 on the rear will behave for street, if not, stockers will go back on there too.
I've been thinking about an impact to--its cool up here, but I'm lazy.
Yesterday I looked at a Klutch in Northern Tool. Nice thing is no cords running around the car. But its 3x the price. If yours does the job and chasing the cord isn't a pain, its a bargain.
Here's the Klutch:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...2146_200442146
2/12/12, 12:30 PM
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You'll want one of these for the rear brakes.
I ordered from Advance Autoparts, so they are available at some local places too.
They work slick.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...kit-97143.html
And you don't have to remove the rear caliper. Loosen both bolts, but only take one out. Then rotate caliper up off the rotor. Got that tip from Gary, but haven't done it yet. Not sure if removing front vs rear bolt works best.
I ordered from Advance Autoparts, so they are available at some local places too.
They work slick.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...kit-97143.html
And you don't have to remove the rear caliper. Loosen both bolts, but only take one out. Then rotate caliper up off the rotor. Got that tip from Gary, but haven't done it yet. Not sure if removing front vs rear bolt works best.
2/12/12, 06:30 PM
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You'll want one of these for the rear brakes.
I ordered from Advance Autoparts, so they are available at some local places too.
They work slick.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...kit-97143.html
And you don't have to remove the rear caliper. Loosen both bolts, but only take one out. Then rotate caliper up off the rotor. Got that tip from Gary, but haven't done it yet. Not sure if removing front vs rear bolt works best.
I ordered from Advance Autoparts, so they are available at some local places too.
They work slick.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...kit-97143.html
And you don't have to remove the rear caliper. Loosen both bolts, but only take one out. Then rotate caliper up off the rotor. Got that tip from Gary, but haven't done it yet. Not sure if removing front vs rear bolt works best.
2/13/12, 02:33 AM
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the bottles are 500ml, i think it didn't take as much because i removed 99% of all the old stuff from the res so all that was left was what was in the lines between res and calipers. i let each bleed screw go for a long time and had probably 1.5 or 2 bottles worth of fluid in the old mop bucket i used to catch what bled out. granted i had no way to get it out of the abs booster. i think i got it all out, the pedal has a very different feel now. it took over half a bottle to top the res off so i probably used close to three in the car.
Last edited by ShaneM; 2/13/12 at 02:35 AM.
2/13/12, 04:20 AM
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I guess leason learned here... Next time you flush I recommend starting with two bottles in the motive and add as needed, then top off. Then you know exactly how much you put in. Again typically a complete flush takes about 3 bottles with a little left over.
It sounds like you will be much happier with the new setup. Let us know how you like it once you run it on the track.
It sounds like you will be much happier with the new setup. Let us know how you like it once you run it on the track.
2/13/12, 04:38 AM
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ill be on the track again feb 25, looking forward to it. i am curious, what do you guys use to fully seat the pins after swapping pads? i have a socket with a hex head that is perfect for pushing them out. i was using my rubber mallet to get the pins to seat, but it's a bit large for the pin near the stainless hoses closest to the road. i was thinking maybe one of those realyl small and light hammers with the tiny head would be ideal.
BTW, that full tilt racing pad spreader is perfect for the job and a steal at $15.
BTW, that full tilt racing pad spreader is perfect for the job and a steal at $15.
2/13/12, 07:44 AM
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Passing on a tip for the Motive speed bleeder:
Once you get the brake reservoir emptied and refilled with the new fluid, connect the Motive bleeder and pressurize it while it's empty. Then bleed the brakes as you normally would. Before moving to the next brake to bleed, de-pressurize the Motive tank and top off the brake fluid reservoir. Doing it this way will minimize brake fluid waste and keep the Motive bleeder cleaner - saves clean time and money spent on extra fluid.
2/13/12, 07:48 AM
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Two bottles (1 liter) of the Brembo LCF fluid should be sufficient for a complete flush.
Passing on a tip for the Motive speed bleeder:
Once you get the brake reservoir emptied and refilled with the new fluid, connect the Motive bleeder and pressurize it while it's empty. Then bleed the brakes as you normally would. Before moving to the next brake to bleed, de-pressurize the Motive tank and top off the brake fluid reservoir. Doing it this way will minimize brake fluid waste and keep the Motive bleeder cleaner - saves clean time and money spent on extra fluid.
Passing on a tip for the Motive speed bleeder:
Once you get the brake reservoir emptied and refilled with the new fluid, connect the Motive bleeder and pressurize it while it's empty. Then bleed the brakes as you normally would. Before moving to the next brake to bleed, de-pressurize the Motive tank and top off the brake fluid reservoir. Doing it this way will minimize brake fluid waste and keep the Motive bleeder cleaner - saves clean time and money spent on extra fluid.
2/13/12, 10:14 AM
#14
Bullitt Member
ill be on the track again feb 25, looking forward to it. i am curious, what do you guys use to fully seat the pins after swapping pads? i have a socket with a hex head that is perfect for pushing them out. i was using my rubber mallet to get the pins to seat, but it's a bit large for the pin near the stainless hoses closest to the road. i was thinking maybe one of those realyl small and light hammers with the tiny head would be ideal.
BTW, that full tilt racing pad spreader is perfect for the job and a steal at $15.
BTW, that full tilt racing pad spreader is perfect for the job and a steal at $15.
2/13/12, 11:07 AM
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2/13/12, 11:22 AM
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i spent pretty much all day yesterday messing with the car. i removed those crappy Hawk HP+ not so tracky track pads and swapped over to my carbotech XP8 and Bobcat front pads. i have the carbotech RP2 that i will swap to at the track.
the pad install was very easy on the front, I don't think it will take too long to swap at the track, maybe a half hour total. i ordered a cheapo Kawasaki branded 12V impact wrench to run off the DC outlet in the car to make the swaps even easier at the track and it surprisingly worked exceptionally well. You have to cut any corners you can if you are going to be pad swapping in the Texas summer heat! If you are tired of using a normal lug wrench, this may be something you want to look into. Had no problems at all removing 100ft-lb torqued lug nuts and did the deed in about half the time it takes by hand.
the worst part about the brake pads was the piston on the rear pads. i used that crappy little cube tool and cursed a lot. Thankfully, i don't expect to replace those rear pads more than once a year. i used XP8 on the rear. i will say they squealed a lot on the street. Granted it was 34-degrees once i was done last night. it will be back up to 70 next week so i will wait before i complain much since some squeal was certainly due to the cold. the bobcat fronts had a bit of squeal in the cold.
Carbotech did tell me i had to get all the old pad material off the rotors from the HP+ pads. I used my trusty Dremel and went through three stainless steel cleaning brushes to remove the old material. That worked like a charm. I also took the opportunity to remove the rear dust shields, which i had forgot about all this time. Thankfully i bought both the XP8 and RP2 pads pre-bedded so they will be ready to go at the track.
i also swapped over to Brembo LCF600+ fluid and used my motive speed bleeder. OMG that thing is awesome, it makes bleeding the brakes infinitely easier than using that cheaper mightvac. i didn't take back the mightvac though, as someone else mentioned it is perfect for sucking old fluid out of the res. It's hose will fit down inside the res to suck out all but the tiniest bit of fluid inside. i may have killed it though, anytime i am working with brake fluid all my brain tells me is "don't get it on the paint, don't get it on the paint" i was watching for leaks and didn't realize the bottle was full in about 20 seconds and slurped a bit into the mightvac.
i filled the speed bleeder with 3.5 bottles of the brembo fluid after filling the res back up with LCF. As it turns out even letting each valve bleed for about five or more minutes, i ended up throwing away probably two bottles of brembo fluid. At $20 per bottle, that stung more than a little. If you slurp it all out of the res with a turkey baster or a mightvac, don't put the recommended amount of fluid in the speed bleeder. i would imagine i only used about 1.5 bottles of fluid.
It was very hard to tell when the old fluid was out and the new was in. the willwood fluid had a much more gold tint to it than the new brembo which was only slightly tinted so i had to just watch for the fluid to get clearer.
Once i wrapped up and got the car out on the street the difference in pedal feel between the brembo fluid and the wilwood was immediately noticeable. I was always a bit bothered that with the wilwood in the car when i did my threshold braking, the pedal was about a quarter of an inch or so under the level of the throttle. that meant on more than on occasion i accidentally had the throttle down after blipping it without realizing, because the brake was under the level of the throttle.
the reason i went with the brembo LCF + is because it has less compressability than other fluids. The pedal travel with the new fluid is much more firm and is at full abs activation when slightly above the throttle so my accidentally stepping on the throttle during heel-toe shouldn't happen. I am attributing the better pedal feel and higher pedal travel abs engagement to the Brembo fluid since no air came out of any of the bleeder valves during the bleeding.
the pad install was very easy on the front, I don't think it will take too long to swap at the track, maybe a half hour total. i ordered a cheapo Kawasaki branded 12V impact wrench to run off the DC outlet in the car to make the swaps even easier at the track and it surprisingly worked exceptionally well. You have to cut any corners you can if you are going to be pad swapping in the Texas summer heat! If you are tired of using a normal lug wrench, this may be something you want to look into. Had no problems at all removing 100ft-lb torqued lug nuts and did the deed in about half the time it takes by hand.
the worst part about the brake pads was the piston on the rear pads. i used that crappy little cube tool and cursed a lot. Thankfully, i don't expect to replace those rear pads more than once a year. i used XP8 on the rear. i will say they squealed a lot on the street. Granted it was 34-degrees once i was done last night. it will be back up to 70 next week so i will wait before i complain much since some squeal was certainly due to the cold. the bobcat fronts had a bit of squeal in the cold.
Carbotech did tell me i had to get all the old pad material off the rotors from the HP+ pads. I used my trusty Dremel and went through three stainless steel cleaning brushes to remove the old material. That worked like a charm. I also took the opportunity to remove the rear dust shields, which i had forgot about all this time. Thankfully i bought both the XP8 and RP2 pads pre-bedded so they will be ready to go at the track.
i also swapped over to Brembo LCF600+ fluid and used my motive speed bleeder. OMG that thing is awesome, it makes bleeding the brakes infinitely easier than using that cheaper mightvac. i didn't take back the mightvac though, as someone else mentioned it is perfect for sucking old fluid out of the res. It's hose will fit down inside the res to suck out all but the tiniest bit of fluid inside. i may have killed it though, anytime i am working with brake fluid all my brain tells me is "don't get it on the paint, don't get it on the paint" i was watching for leaks and didn't realize the bottle was full in about 20 seconds and slurped a bit into the mightvac.
i filled the speed bleeder with 3.5 bottles of the brembo fluid after filling the res back up with LCF. As it turns out even letting each valve bleed for about five or more minutes, i ended up throwing away probably two bottles of brembo fluid. At $20 per bottle, that stung more than a little. If you slurp it all out of the res with a turkey baster or a mightvac, don't put the recommended amount of fluid in the speed bleeder. i would imagine i only used about 1.5 bottles of fluid.
It was very hard to tell when the old fluid was out and the new was in. the willwood fluid had a much more gold tint to it than the new brembo which was only slightly tinted so i had to just watch for the fluid to get clearer.
Once i wrapped up and got the car out on the street the difference in pedal feel between the brembo fluid and the wilwood was immediately noticeable. I was always a bit bothered that with the wilwood in the car when i did my threshold braking, the pedal was about a quarter of an inch or so under the level of the throttle. that meant on more than on occasion i accidentally had the throttle down after blipping it without realizing, because the brake was under the level of the throttle.
the reason i went with the brembo LCF + is because it has less compressability than other fluids. The pedal travel with the new fluid is much more firm and is at full abs activation when slightly above the throttle so my accidentally stepping on the throttle during heel-toe shouldn't happen. I am attributing the better pedal feel and higher pedal travel abs engagement to the Brembo fluid since no air came out of any of the bleeder valves during the bleeding.
Last edited by LSECO; 2/13/12 at 11:38 AM.
2/13/12, 11:36 AM
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You'll want one of these for the rear brakes.
I ordered from Advance Autoparts, so they are available at some local places too.
They work slick.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...kit-97143.html
And you don't have to remove the rear caliper. Loosen both bolts, but only take one out. Then rotate caliper up off the rotor. Got that tip from Gary, but haven't done it yet. Not sure if removing front vs rear bolt works best.
I ordered from Advance Autoparts, so they are available at some local places too.
They work slick.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...kit-97143.html
And you don't have to remove the rear caliper. Loosen both bolts, but only take one out. Then rotate caliper up off the rotor. Got that tip from Gary, but haven't done it yet. Not sure if removing front vs rear bolt works best.
Last edited by LSECO; 2/13/12 at 11:37 AM.
2/13/12, 01:44 PM
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I tap the pins back in with a 1/4 x 3" bolt. The length gets the bolt head I'm hitting beyond the brake line, and the slight concave tip of the bolt keeps it from slipping off the pin. Works great.
edited to add correct punch, hammer, bolt sizes.
Last edited by SD GT; 2/13/12 at 04:22 PM.
2/13/12, 05:45 PM
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Two bottles (1 liter) of the Brembo LCF fluid should be sufficient for a complete flush.
Passing on a tip for the Motive speed bleeder:
Once you get the brake reservoir emptied and refilled with the new fluid, connect the Motive bleeder and pressurize it while it's empty. Then bleed the brakes as you normally would. Before moving to the next brake to bleed, de-pressurize the Motive tank and top off the brake fluid reservoir. Doing it this way will minimize brake fluid waste and keep the Motive bleeder cleaner - saves clean time and money spent on extra fluid.
Passing on a tip for the Motive speed bleeder:
Once you get the brake reservoir emptied and refilled with the new fluid, connect the Motive bleeder and pressurize it while it's empty. Then bleed the brakes as you normally would. Before moving to the next brake to bleed, de-pressurize the Motive tank and top off the brake fluid reservoir. Doing it this way will minimize brake fluid waste and keep the Motive bleeder cleaner - saves clean time and money spent on extra fluid.
1 Liter of fluid should do the flush out, I have been using ATE Gold and Super Blue alternatively and when I suck the old fluid out of the reservoir and add the new fluid I am able to have a full color change from blue to amber or amber to blue using one liter can. When the color changes I do 3 full strokes at each wheel and call it good. 2 liters is alot of brake fluid.
Steve