questions about maintenance after tracking
#1
questions about maintenance after tracking
The last page of the Boss supplement manual states the following in BOLD
Ford reccomends you change your oil and filter after your vehicle is subject to track and/or competition conditions.
Followed by:
additoinally perform ... and the maintenance in the 150,000 mile normal maintenance schedule. Which is manual transmission fluid and rear axle fluid too.
I am new to tracking.
Dose anyone change their oil after every track event?
What about rear axle fluid (I am assuming this is the rear differential fluid?)
If I track 3 to 4 times and Auto cross 3 to 4 times in a 6 month period
What should I be changing and at what frequency?
Motor oil
Rear axle fluid
Brake fluid
Manual trans Fliud
Thanks for your input
Ford reccomends you change your oil and filter after your vehicle is subject to track and/or competition conditions.
Followed by:
additoinally perform ... and the maintenance in the 150,000 mile normal maintenance schedule. Which is manual transmission fluid and rear axle fluid too.
I am new to tracking.
Dose anyone change their oil after every track event?
What about rear axle fluid (I am assuming this is the rear differential fluid?)
If I track 3 to 4 times and Auto cross 3 to 4 times in a 6 month period
What should I be changing and at what frequency?
Motor oil
Rear axle fluid
Brake fluid
Manual trans Fliud
Thanks for your input
#2
I have my first track day in about three weeks I think the book is carry maintenance to the extreme but I would still be careful, change the oil more often but other things like the rear oil depends on how much you push it. My track time will be beginner so it will be more like aggressive street driving to some extent, I doubt I will need to go crazy changing everything after a session like that. One question I have is why Ford would say to change to dot 4 fluid for the track and then change back to dot 3. That does not makes sense to me, I don't see why we would need to change but plan to ask some experts at the track next time I go.
I guess it depends on how hard you push it and what temps you get things to.
I guess it depends on how hard you push it and what temps you get things to.
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 5/1/11 at 08:01 AM.
#3
I find this puzzling as well and hopefully someone has an answer.
#4
I'm not sure where you're seeing them saying to change back to DOT 3. I've never changed back, I just leave DOT 4 in the car on the street. If I've heated the brakes to fading on the track I'll bleed the fluid from near the calipers. Otherwise I check it for darkening and flush it through when it starts to get dark. I would guess somewhere around 4-6 track days for changes but it depends on how much abuse they've seen.
#5
I did have my rear end fluid and oil changed after my first track day due to wearing in the new parts. 12 hours on the diff fluid after the initial change seems reasonable. I'd also like input on the oil change after every track event. I was probably more like after every two events. As far as the other items, I'm assuming checking over the braking system, checking tightness on suspension bolts, etc. Since I swap my pads and rotors before every event I can get a look at most of those parts while doing that. Another item is checking your hubs for excessive play by rocking on the wheels laterally. I'm curious as to what others look for on inspection.
#6
My rule of thumb on oil changes has been after each 3-4 track days. I now have a TruTrac differential, so I don't have to worry about any friction plate wear in the rear end. If you're only doing 4 track days a year or less and have the T2R unit, I think that every other year would be good enough for that. My car is entering its 5th track season and the diff fluid has been changed twice and the tranny fluid once (I'll change it this fall again). I've lost track of oil changes; I'd have to look at my records for that one
Brake fluid should be flushed at least once a year. If you track it regularly, say 10 days per year or more, flush it mid-season. I see no need to swap back and forth between fluid types though.
Ditto what cloud9 said about checking the hubs, especially if you ever super-heat the brakes. This is where a 2-piece rotor would really help to protect the hubs from heat transfer.
After EVERY event the car should be thoroughly inspected! In addition to checking all of the suspension bolts for tightness, visually inspect the spindles for stress fractures (early S197's had some failures in auto-x uses, although Ford has made some changes in response to those failures). On older S197's with hydraulic PS units, the FR500C guys had noticed a need to check the steering rack bolts regularly as well. I have not seen the new electric units, so I don't know about that. Oh, and don't forget to inspect the wheels for any damage as well.
Tires, brake pads, rotors, lug nuts etc. That stuff should need little comment here.
In general, try to keep the under-carriage as clean as a show car. That way it will be easy to spot any unusual problems; fluid leaks, blown shocks, etc. It just helps with the visual inspection, you see so much more when you're trying to clean it. If this car is your daily driver, you can send me your snide remarks via PM
Think safety and courtesy first and Open Track driving will be an enjoyable but expensive addiction
Brake fluid should be flushed at least once a year. If you track it regularly, say 10 days per year or more, flush it mid-season. I see no need to swap back and forth between fluid types though.
Ditto what cloud9 said about checking the hubs, especially if you ever super-heat the brakes. This is where a 2-piece rotor would really help to protect the hubs from heat transfer.
After EVERY event the car should be thoroughly inspected! In addition to checking all of the suspension bolts for tightness, visually inspect the spindles for stress fractures (early S197's had some failures in auto-x uses, although Ford has made some changes in response to those failures). On older S197's with hydraulic PS units, the FR500C guys had noticed a need to check the steering rack bolts regularly as well. I have not seen the new electric units, so I don't know about that. Oh, and don't forget to inspect the wheels for any damage as well.
Tires, brake pads, rotors, lug nuts etc. That stuff should need little comment here.
In general, try to keep the under-carriage as clean as a show car. That way it will be easy to spot any unusual problems; fluid leaks, blown shocks, etc. It just helps with the visual inspection, you see so much more when you're trying to clean it. If this car is your daily driver, you can send me your snide remarks via PM
Think safety and courtesy first and Open Track driving will be an enjoyable but expensive addiction
#8
I did have my rear end fluid and oil changed after my first track day due to wearing in the new parts. 12 hours on the diff fluid after the initial change seems reasonable. I'd also like input on the oil change after every track event. I was probably more like after every two events. As far as the other items, I'm assuming checking over the braking system, checking tightness on suspension bolts, etc. Since I swap my pads and rotors before every event I can get a look at most of those parts while doing that. Another item is checking your hubs for excessive play by rocking on the wheels laterally. I'm curious as to what others look for on inspection.
I see you have added negative camber. Is that with caster/camber plates?
#9
Track Use Preparation
___
Question here, if I trailer to the track with stock tires what pressure do you guys think is good cold, the 4 psi below?
Change brake fluid to Super DOT 4 to improve track performance of braking system (WSS-M6C65-A2), Ford part number (YS4Z-19542-AA).
Then it says:
Note: Restore the vehicle to factory specifications prior to driving on public roads.
___
Question here, if I trailer to the track with stock tires what pressure do you guys think is good cold, the 4 psi below?
For track sessions, it is recommended to run 41 psi (283 kPa) hot for the OEM tires, front and rear.
• Depending on track temperature, ambient temperature and driving style, you may need to reduce the starting tire pressure by as much as 4 psi (27 kPa).
•
The starting pressure may be lower in the rear tires relative to the front tires to achieve 41 psi (283 kPa) hot.
•
Reset tire pressures to placard recommended pressures before leaving the track.
___
•
The starting pressure may be lower in the rear tires relative to the front tires to achieve 41 psi (283 kPa) hot.
•
Reset tire pressures to placard recommended pressures before leaving the track.
___
Love this one:
For improved track performance, Ford recommends , Trackey
available through Ford Racing. See your local Ford dealer or go to chttp://www.trackey.ford.com for more information (M-14204-MBTKA).
___
___
I have been reading as much as I can, thanks for the good info here also, it is in line with what many clubs recommend. My plan is to go with Dot 4 and leave it in but I just could not understand why it is written the way it is.
I have read that brake fluid can absorb water (non track related info) and change the fluid in all vehicles I've owned after two years. While I have never seen it damage a car in two years I have seen the effect of water in the fluid in many older Mustangs I have bought. I don't plan to be out on the track too much (I would love to be addicted but no money for that) so the one year thing sounds good to me.
My first day will be in three weeks at Palm Beach Int'l Raceway. I think that track will be a good start. I went with a friend yesterday to see what it was all about, I was a bit apprehensive about all this but feel better now. Soon after there is another day at Sebring with the same group. That track should be a lot of fun but not something I would want to hit first time out. There is even a event at Homestead but I really need some experience before that I think.
One good thing where I live is plenty of nice tracks including Daytona close. I do not think I will ever get into competition racing but I really want to get the Boss out there and have some fun.
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 5/1/11 at 01:27 PM.
#10
#11
I subscribe to everything related in 66sprint200's reply. All his recommendations make good and reasonable sense as do the recommendations from Cloud9 who already has track experience. And I believe in the virtues of using DOT4 brake fluid based on my GT500 experience. My DOT4 fluid of choice is the Motul 600 RBF (approx $18 for 500ml) which exhibits boiling properties of 421F wet and 594F dry.
Note, the DOT3 fluid OE supplied in our cars is a very good yet quite inexpensive fluid with approx 290F wet and 550F dry boiling properties. Because of these properties and low cost, many racers routinely swap out their brake fluid before any event with the Ford DOT3 to capitalize on the high dry boiling point and low cost. This is the same fluid Ford used extensively (and exclusively) in developing the Brembo brake system on the 2005 - 2006 Ford GT program without any problems.
I too would be interested in hearing from someone within Ford engineering for the engine oil frequency recommendation. As multiple posts above opine, I believe the engine can certainly undergo multiple track events before requiring an oil change especially if the owners use the recommended fully synthetic 5W-50 Motorcraft engine oil. Same is probably true for the differential fluid after the initial early change out.
Need more information on this. Where would you drill/tap a drain hole in the cover? Is there a machined boss for this operation already cast in the alum cover? How much fluid remains below the plug hole if you go this route? At least removing the cover (although more laborious) gives the opportunity to inspect the differential and drain out all the old fluid.
Note, the DOT3 fluid OE supplied in our cars is a very good yet quite inexpensive fluid with approx 290F wet and 550F dry boiling properties. Because of these properties and low cost, many racers routinely swap out their brake fluid before any event with the Ford DOT3 to capitalize on the high dry boiling point and low cost. This is the same fluid Ford used extensively (and exclusively) in developing the Brembo brake system on the 2005 - 2006 Ford GT program without any problems.
I too would be interested in hearing from someone within Ford engineering for the engine oil frequency recommendation. As multiple posts above opine, I believe the engine can certainly undergo multiple track events before requiring an oil change especially if the owners use the recommended fully synthetic 5W-50 Motorcraft engine oil. Same is probably true for the differential fluid after the initial early change out.
Need more information on this. Where would you drill/tap a drain hole in the cover? Is there a machined boss for this operation already cast in the alum cover? How much fluid remains below the plug hole if you go this route? At least removing the cover (although more laborious) gives the opportunity to inspect the differential and drain out all the old fluid.
#12
Track Use Preparation
Question here, if I trailer to the track with stock tires what pressure do you guys think is good cold, the 4 psi below?
Question here, if I trailer to the track with stock tires what pressure do you guys think is good cold, the 4 psi below?
___
I have been reading as much as I can, thanks for the good info here also, it is in line with what many clubs recommend. My plan is to go with Dot 4 and leave it in but I just could not understand why it is written the way it is.
I have read that brake fluid can absorb water (non track related info) and change the fluid in all vehicles I've owned after two years. While I have never seen it damage a car in two years I have seen the effect of water in the fluid in many older Mustangs I have bought. I don't plan to be out on the track too much (I would love to be addicted but no money for that) so the one year thing sounds good to me.
Once the tires cool, re-torque your lug nuts. Do this a couple times thought out the day.
You should run Dot 4 or better brake fluid on the track. Brake fluid absorbs water. Water in your brake fluid will lower its boiling point. For this reason the brake fluid in the car should be replace if its older than 6 months old before going to the track. Its also a good idea to bleed your brakes before and after each track event.
I'm not sure what group you are going with, but just remember start out slow and listen to your instructor and you'll have a great time.
#13
Need more information on this. Where would you drill/tap a drain hole in the cover? Is there a machined boss for this operation already cast in the alum cover? How much fluid remains below the plug hole if you go this route? At least removing the cover (although more laborious) gives the opportunity to inspect the differential and drain out all the old fluid.
#14
Thanks Jeff and others. Another question is the track pressure, why 41, is that kind of high? My tires came from the factory at 33.5 from cold and 34 rear cold, 37/38 hot. Should I add and run the street at 41 hot?
As an old drag racer I was use to lower pressure, on the rear anyway, I would have thought (maybe incorrect) a little lower pressure would help the tires stick more. I don't me 8 psi but like 35 or so, this is incorrect?
As an old drag racer I was use to lower pressure, on the rear anyway, I would have thought (maybe incorrect) a little lower pressure would help the tires stick more. I don't me 8 psi but like 35 or so, this is incorrect?
#15
I have my first track day in about three weeks I think the book is carry maintenance to the extreme but I would still be careful, change the oil more often but other things like the rear oil depends on how much you push it. My track time will be beginner so it will be more like aggressive street driving to some extent, I doubt I will need to go crazy changing everything after a session like that. One question I have is why Ford would say to change to dot 4 fluid for the track and then change back to dot 3. That does not makes sense to me, I don't see why we would need to change but plan to ask some experts at the track next time I go.
I guess it depends on how hard you push it and what temps you get things to.
I guess it depends on how hard you push it and what temps you get things to.
to answer the OP's question; no, i do not change the oil after a track event, or the diff/trans fluid in my car (CTS-V). I'll change the diff/trans fluid every year, and the oil every 3k (maybe have 1 - 2 events on the oil). and I drive the snot of out my car.
Also I run Castrol SRF (DOT 5) in my car on the street as well as on track and do fine. I love it; I dont have to bleed it nearly as much as the ATE Super Blue DOT 4. I boiled the ATE Super Blue with my stock pads and rotors at Sebring, so switched to the SRF when I upgraded the pads and rotors, and after 2 days at Sebring it was flawless.
Last edited by smbstyle; 5/1/11 at 06:04 PM.
#16
Scott, which event are you going to?
to answer the OP's question; no, i do not change the oil after a track event, or the diff/trans fluid in my car (CTS-V). I'll change the diff/trans fluid every year, and the oil every 3k (maybe have 1 - 2 events on the oil) and I drive the snot of out my car.
to answer the OP's question; no, i do not change the oil after a track event, or the diff/trans fluid in my car (CTS-V). I'll change the diff/trans fluid every year, and the oil every 3k (maybe have 1 - 2 events on the oil) and I drive the snot of out my car.
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 5/1/11 at 06:12 PM.
#17
Thanks Jeff and others. Another question is the track pressure, why 41, is that kind of high? My tires came from the factory at 33.5 from cold and 34 rear cold, 37/38 hot. Should I add and run the street at 41 hot?
As an old drag racer I was use to lower pressure, on the rear anyway, I would have thought (maybe incorrect) a little lower pressure would help the tires stick more. I don't me 8 psi but like 35 or so, this is incorrect?
As an old drag racer I was use to lower pressure, on the rear anyway, I would have thought (maybe incorrect) a little lower pressure would help the tires stick more. I don't me 8 psi but like 35 or so, this is incorrect?
So many variables to getting pressures just right, even the pro's have trouble. For us weekend warriors, close is good enough. Road courses require different things from the tires than drag racing (okay, that's obvious I know....). The lower the pressures, the more the tires will roll over on the sidewall in the corners and with heavy cars like Mustangs you'll chord the edges really fast. That also can decrease the contact patch which will actually decrease the overall grip. Every tire MFR will have slightly different recommendations for pressures. Start there and experiment. Just keep an eye on the wear indicators to see if the sidewalls are rolling over too far. When you come off the track, measure the pressures and measure the tread temp's. Try to have all 4 tires at the same pressure AND same temp. And try to get even temp's across the entire contact patch on each tire. If you don't have a temp gauge, just use your hands to get a general idea (good enough for beginners). If your front tires are really hot with high pressures compared with the backs, then you need to adjust your driving (braking/turning) style.
With my GT500 and Conti Grand Am slicks, I've usually aimed for 39/38 degrees front/back. This has helped with the understeer in that car. The Boss shouldn't have that issue and I'll start with equal pressures until I get a feel for it. Unlike cloud9, I'll probably still run a square setup on the Boss......
#18
Cool thanks. Then should I bump up the pressure for the street also, the door is saying 35, I mainly drive trucks and like my pressure on the higher side anyway (not to the point of wearing out the center but the higher side of recommended settings). Would 37/38 cold be to high for the street with the stock tires?
#19
Actually I just asked the dealer to get as much from the factory setup as they could on the alignment rack. Their suspension guy (who is very good) took it on his own initiative to use some eccentric bolts on the lower strut to tip them in further. Factory was -0.95 degrees and with the eccentric bolt he got -1.7. I really wasn't planning on having him do that, as I just wanted to see how much adjustment there was before ordering c/c plates. Now with -1.7 I'm not sure I'll add the plates as I was planning on going to -2.0 for a decent compromise between street and track.
#20
In the morning start with the normal cold tire pressure. As soon as you get off the track, check the tire pressure. If it's over 41, air down to 41. You should do this each time you get off the track. As you speed improves and the day gets hotter the tire temps / pressures will rise.
Once the tires cool, re-torque your lug nuts. Do this a couple times thought out the day.
You should run Dot 4 or better brake fluid on the track. Brake fluid absorbs water. Water in your brake fluid will lower its boiling point. For this reason the brake fluid in the car should be replace if its older than 6 months old before going to the track. Its also a good idea to bleed your brakes before and after each track event.
I'm not sure what group you are going with, but just remember start out slow and listen to your instructor and you'll have a great time.
Once the tires cool, re-torque your lug nuts. Do this a couple times thought out the day.
You should run Dot 4 or better brake fluid on the track. Brake fluid absorbs water. Water in your brake fluid will lower its boiling point. For this reason the brake fluid in the car should be replace if its older than 6 months old before going to the track. Its also a good idea to bleed your brakes before and after each track event.
I'm not sure what group you are going with, but just remember start out slow and listen to your instructor and you'll have a great time.
Question for you on torquing the lugs. I always check mine throughout the day as well. My last time out we had some extreme weather changes. It was early spring and started the day in the 40s. We hit almost 90 degrees ambient by late afternoon, and I noticed I had to tighten the lugs more than normal as the day wore on.....(usually just check them and they don't move much). We had severe storms blow through that night and I had headed home 250 miles North. Temps the following morning when I went to return to street mode were in the 40s. I really had a hard time breaking the front lugs loose. I've never had them bind up that bad before, but I'm assuming it was the big temp swing. Do you do anything to prevent this? I thought about breaking them slightly after loading on the trailer after the next track event. Thoughts?