Brake Break-in or is it Breaking in the Brakes
5/7/11, 08:08 PM
#1
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Brake Break-in or is it Breaking in the Brakes
I did the burnishing today on the Boss, the second type (fade) with more miles on the car. Once you do this does it need to be repeated again or is the one time good for repeated track use? If it needs it on a regular basis, how often?
Also what is the recovery method for?
Also what is the recovery method for?
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 5/7/11 at 08:11 PM.
5/7/11, 08:23 PM
#2
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Scott, the purpose of brake bedding or "burnishing" is to transfer a bit of pad material onto the face of the rotor in order for better friction between the two surfaces during braking, and less chance of any "hot-spotting" on the rotors which can lead to vibration and material buildup in one area of the rotor. This process only needs to be done once on the street pads; or whenever you do a rotor or pad change. If you are referencing the "cool down" where after the bedding procedure you let the car go for a cool-down drive, then park the car for a while without touching the brakes, this is so the pad material can settle onto the rotor face to provide better friction.
If you ever switch back and forth between street pads and race pads, this bedding process will have to be done after each pad change, but make sure the rotor face is clean. What I will do is actually drive around for a week or so on the race pads before an event, because on the street when they are not in operating temperature the race pads actually scrape off the old pad material off of the rotor, thus creating a clean slate for bedding in the race pads. After the event I'll drive around for another week with the race pads on to clean off the pad material so I can re-bed my street pads. You dont want to build up the two materials on the rotor over top of each other; you can get some serious judder from stacking the material.
Here is a video I took of me bedding in my PFC 01 pads before a track event; you can see after each braking event the rotors get brighter and brighter, and after the last you can see the rotor still glowing after about 10 seconds of cruising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zQEj1eQKk
And for me, the race pads I use (Performance Friction 01 compound) actually have better COLD bite than my stock pads! So the saying that race pads dont work on the street isn't completely true. They work much BETTER when up to operating temp, but arent terrible by any means on the street.
If you ever switch back and forth between street pads and race pads, this bedding process will have to be done after each pad change, but make sure the rotor face is clean. What I will do is actually drive around for a week or so on the race pads before an event, because on the street when they are not in operating temperature the race pads actually scrape off the old pad material off of the rotor, thus creating a clean slate for bedding in the race pads. After the event I'll drive around for another week with the race pads on to clean off the pad material so I can re-bed my street pads. You dont want to build up the two materials on the rotor over top of each other; you can get some serious judder from stacking the material.
Here is a video I took of me bedding in my PFC 01 pads before a track event; you can see after each braking event the rotors get brighter and brighter, and after the last you can see the rotor still glowing after about 10 seconds of cruising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zQEj1eQKk
And for me, the race pads I use (Performance Friction 01 compound) actually have better COLD bite than my stock pads! So the saying that race pads dont work on the street isn't completely true. They work much BETTER when up to operating temp, but arent terrible by any means on the street.
Last edited by smbstyle; 5/7/11 at 08:26 PM.
5/7/11, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by smbstyle
Scott, the purpose of brake bedding or "burnishing" is to transfer a bit of pad material onto the face of the rotor in order for better friction between the two surfaces during braking, and less chance of any "hot-spotting" on the rotors which can lead to vibration and material buildup in one area of the rotor. This process only needs to be done once on the street pads; or whenever you do a rotor or pad change. If you are referencing the "cool down" where after the bedding procedure you let the car go for a cool-down drive, then park the car for a while without touching the brakes, this is so the pad material can settle onto the rotor face to provide better friction.
If you ever switch back and forth between street pads and race pads, this bedding process will have to be done after each pad change, but make sure the rotor face is clean. What I will do is actually drive around for a week or so on the race pads before an event, because on the street when they are not in operating temperature the race pads actually scrape off the old pad material off of the rotor, thus creating a clean slate for bedding in the race pads. After the event I'll drive around for another week with the race pads on to clean off the pad material so I can re-bed my street pads. You dont want to build up the two materials on the rotor over top of each other; you can get some serious judder from stacking the material.
Here is a video I took of me bedding in my PFC 01 pads before a track event; you can see after each braking event the rotors get brighter and brighter, and after the last you can see the rotor still glowing after about 10 seconds of cruising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zQEj1eQKk
And for me, the race pads I use (Performance Friction 01 compound) actually have better COLD bite than my stock pads! So the saying that race pads dont work on the street isn't completely true. They work much BETTER when up to operating temp, but arent terrible by any means on the street.
If you ever switch back and forth between street pads and race pads, this bedding process will have to be done after each pad change, but make sure the rotor face is clean. What I will do is actually drive around for a week or so on the race pads before an event, because on the street when they are not in operating temperature the race pads actually scrape off the old pad material off of the rotor, thus creating a clean slate for bedding in the race pads. After the event I'll drive around for another week with the race pads on to clean off the pad material so I can re-bed my street pads. You dont want to build up the two materials on the rotor over top of each other; you can get some serious judder from stacking the material.
Here is a video I took of me bedding in my PFC 01 pads before a track event; you can see after each braking event the rotors get brighter and brighter, and after the last you can see the rotor still glowing after about 10 seconds of cruising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zQEj1eQKk
And for me, the race pads I use (Performance Friction 01 compound) actually have better COLD bite than my stock pads! So the saying that race pads dont work on the street isn't completely true. They work much BETTER when up to operating temp, but arent terrible by any means on the street.
5/7/11, 08:59 PM
#4
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Thanks Scott, so I do not need to do it before each track event? I will not be running hard and it is Palm Beach so I do not think that track will be super hard on the brakes. I was going to run the Dot 3 for the first time and change after, I still may but after seeing the rotors glowing I think I may go ahead and change before this first run.
On the recovery I was asking about it says:
On the recovery I was asking about it says:
Recovery: 30 recovery stops at 60-0 mph (96-0 km/h), 0.4 gdeceleration, one mile (1.6 km) between stops
When would this need to be done, new pads old rotors - or what? It is pretty much the same as burnishing.
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 5/7/11 at 09:03 PM.
5/7/11, 09:02 PM
#5
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I am no expert but the Boss has the Brembo package, unless you are running very hard I think they will be OK. I am not swapping them out, just the fluid.
5/7/11, 09:04 PM
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Street pads dont hold up well at the track; especially with heavier cars and fast tracks. I glazed my stock pads pretty quick at Sebring. My track pads will last 4-5 events before they are dangerously low on material. My first event I tried the stock pads and they were toast after one day, so that's why I decided I'd be better off with street duty pads and track duty pads.
This might be getting carried away, but I have dedicated track tires/wheels too. Not because I'm running R-compound tires, but because my tires get chewed up at the track, and when I was running my street tires at the track, afterwards I noticed I'd have an annoying vibration because the abnormal wear from the track and the whee/tire wasnt balanced anymore. On the track I didnt notice the vibration, but driving 65 down the highway I did.
5/7/11, 09:14 PM
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Thanks Scott, so I do not need to do it before each track event? I will not be running hard and it is Palm Beach so I do not think that track will be super hard on the brakes. I was going to run the Dot 3 for the first time and change after, I still may but after seeing the rotors glowing I think I may go ahead and change before this first run.
On the recovery I was asking about it says:
On the recovery I was asking about it says:
When would this need to be done, new pads old rotors - or what? It is pretty much the same as burnishing.
Honestly I've never seen that recovery thing before. Was that in the Boss 302 owners manual? I've consulted with many different manufacturers (Hawk, PFC, StopTech) and haven't heard of 30 stops from 60-0 with one mile between them. Does it tell you to do that AFTER the bedding process? You really have to be careful about anything that tells you to come to a complete stop (XXmph to 0 mph) because when you stop on hot pads and rotors, you can really screw up the rotors with hot-spotting. I'm guessing that the recovery process is after the brakes cool down from the bedding process. I dont think that is neccessary, and that a "recovery" process could be done with just normal street driving. Plus, not sure where you'd find a 30 mile stretch where you can do 30 stops 60-0 without causing a wreck.
Last edited by smbstyle; 5/7/11 at 09:23 PM.
5/7/11, 09:18 PM
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Again, if you are not running the car hard, and it is a more technical track without a bunch of long straight aways that create heavy, fast braking zones (like turn 7 and turn 17 at Sebring) where the braking system generates a ton of heat, you should be fine with stock pads for the first event or so. Also, don't ride the brakes!
What color are the stock Boss calipers? Hopefully black.... Mine started out silver, then after 3 track days....
Last edited by smbstyle; 5/7/11 at 09:21 PM.
5/7/11, 09:21 PM
#9
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Nope, no need to do it before every track event, you'll be fine. Once there is an initial material build-up they dont have to be re-bedded unless that material gets stripped off.
Honestly I've never seen that recovery thing before. Was that in the Boss 302 owners manual? I've consulted with many different manufacturers (Hawk, PFC, StopTech) and haven't heard of 30 stops from 60-0 with one mile between them. Does it tell you to do that AFTER the bedding process? You really have to be careful about anything that tells you to come to a complete stop (XXmph to 0 mph) because when you stop on hot pads and rotors, you can really screw up the rotors with hot-spotting. I'm guessing that the recovery process is after the brakes cool down from the bedding process. I dont think that is neccessary, and that a "recovery" process could be done with just normal street driving. Plus, not sure where you'd find a 30 mile stretch where you can do 30 stops 60-0 without causing a wreck.
Honestly I've never seen that recovery thing before. Was that in the Boss 302 owners manual? I've consulted with many different manufacturers (Hawk, PFC, StopTech) and haven't heard of 30 stops from 60-0 with one mile between them. Does it tell you to do that AFTER the bedding process? You really have to be careful about anything that tells you to come to a complete stop (XXmph to 0 mph) because when you stop on hot pads and rotors, you can really screw up the rotors with hot-spotting. I'm guessing that the recovery process is after the brakes cool down from the bedding process. I dont think that is neccessary, and that a "recovery" process could be done with just normal street driving. Plus, not sure where you'd find a 30 mile stretch where you can do 30 stops 60-0 without causing a wreck.
Brake burnishing procedure for race track driving
If the vehicle has to be driven on a track
•
(racing) or in severe driving conditions, the following steps must be performed on a closed course, not on public roads:
•
Burnish: 30 burnish stops at 60-0 mph (96-0 km/h), 0.4g deceleration, one mile (1.6 km) between stops. If the vehicle has more than 200 miles (322 km) on the brakes, skip this step and proceed to the Fade stops.
•
Fade: 20 fade stops, at 65-0 mph (105-0 km/h), 0.85g deceleration or just below ABS activity, no dwell between stops
•
Cool down: Minimum of five mile (8 km) cool down route, if on public roads (no brakes) run at 60 mph (96 km/h)
•
Recovery: 30 recovery stops at 60-0 mph (96-0 km/h), 0.4 g deceleration, one mile (1.6 km) between stops
•
Cool down: Minimum of five mile (8 km) cool down route, if on public roads (no brakes) run at 60 mph (96 km/h)
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 9/25/12 at 03:42 PM.
5/7/11, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 2012YellowBoss
I am no expert but the Boss has the Brembo package, unless you are running very hard I think they will be OK. I am not swapping them out, just the fluid.
5/7/11, 09:32 PM
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5/7/11, 11:01 PM
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from a different source, but lots of good info here, and on this site.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
beers
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
beers
5/7/11, 11:50 PM
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Scott, the purpose of brake bedding or "burnishing" is to transfer a bit of pad material onto the face of the rotor in order for better friction between the two surfaces during braking, and less chance of any "hot-spotting" on the rotors which can lead to vibration and material buildup in one area of the rotor. This process only needs to be done once on the street pads; or whenever you do a rotor or pad change. If you are referencing the "cool down" where after the bedding procedure you let the car go for a cool-down drive, then park the car for a while without touching the brakes, this is so the pad material can settle onto the rotor face to provide better friction.
If you ever switch back and forth between street pads and race pads, this bedding process will have to be done after each pad change, but make sure the rotor face is clean. What I will do is actually drive around for a week or so on the race pads before an event, because on the street when they are not in operating temperature the race pads actually scrape off the old pad material off of the rotor, thus creating a clean slate for bedding in the race pads. After the event I'll drive around for another week with the race pads on to clean off the pad material so I can re-bed my street pads. You dont want to build up the two materials on the rotor over top of each other; you can get some serious judder from stacking the material.
Here is a video I took of me bedding in my PFC 01 pads before a track event; you can see after each braking event the rotors get brighter and brighter, and after the last you can see the rotor still glowing after about 10 seconds of cruising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zQEj1eQKk
And for me, the race pads I use (Performance Friction 01 compound) actually have better COLD bite than my stock pads! So the saying that race pads dont work on the street isn't completely true. They work much BETTER when up to operating temp, but arent terrible by any means on the street.
If you ever switch back and forth between street pads and race pads, this bedding process will have to be done after each pad change, but make sure the rotor face is clean. What I will do is actually drive around for a week or so on the race pads before an event, because on the street when they are not in operating temperature the race pads actually scrape off the old pad material off of the rotor, thus creating a clean slate for bedding in the race pads. After the event I'll drive around for another week with the race pads on to clean off the pad material so I can re-bed my street pads. You dont want to build up the two materials on the rotor over top of each other; you can get some serious judder from stacking the material.
Here is a video I took of me bedding in my PFC 01 pads before a track event; you can see after each braking event the rotors get brighter and brighter, and after the last you can see the rotor still glowing after about 10 seconds of cruising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zQEj1eQKk
And for me, the race pads I use (Performance Friction 01 compound) actually have better COLD bite than my stock pads! So the saying that race pads dont work on the street isn't completely true. They work much BETTER when up to operating temp, but arent terrible by any means on the street.
I know some members also run dedicated rotors to go along with their track pads and wheel/tire setups. I'm not sure how far I'm going to go with this but I'll do similar to 2012yellowboss my first time. I'll definitely change the brake fluid to Dot 4 or 5.1 before I hit the track. What tires are you running on your track wheels?
5/8/11, 07:27 AM
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I don't know much about tracking street cars buy your post was very informative and easy to follow, thanks. I know some members also run dedicated rotors to go along with their track pads and wheel/tire setups. I'm not sure how far I'm going to go with this but I'll do similar to 2012yellowboss my first time. I'll definitely change the brake fluid to Dot 4 or 5.1 before I hit the track.
What tires are you running on your track wheels?
I know some members also run dedicated rotors to go along with their track pads and wheel/tire setups. I'm not sure how far I'm going to go with this but I'll do similar to 2012yellowboss my first time. I'll definitely change the brake fluid to Dot 4 or 5.1 before I hit the track. What tires are you running on your track wheels?
For the track I just run Nitto NT-05s. Theyre dirt cheap, I can drive on them easily to and from the track, and are very grippy for a street tire. Best place to get them is discounttiredirect.com, free shipping too.
5/8/11, 08:58 AM
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Check out this thread:
https://themustangsource.com/f813/br...eviews-492130/
Also good tech info site:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml
https://themustangsource.com/f813/br...eviews-492130/
Also good tech info site:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml
5/8/11, 04:09 PM
#16
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I don't know much about tracking street cars but your post was very informative and easy to follow, thanks. I know some members also run dedicated rotors to go along with their track pads and wheel/tire setups. I'm not sure how far I'm going to go with this but I'll do similar to 2012yellowboss my first time. I'll definitely change the brake fluid to Dot 4 or 5.1 before I hit the track.
2012YellowBoss and 5 DOT O (and other new Boss owners interested in exploring track time with their new car). And I mean these comments in the most respected way. Guys, I read with interest all this “track preparation” stuff going on and everyone seems to be boresighted on gotta change out the brake fluid. Hey, I’m very excited about tracking my Boss just like all the other owners. I have participated in multiple track events with other Ford high performance cars as a novice (with an instructor) just as most new Boss owners profess to be. There are serious dedicated racers out there and my comments are not really directed at the diehards, they know driving technique and have the skills to push their equipment to limits based on hours of track seat time. Us low time trackers do not have the skills or experience to push our cars (yet) to limits designed into the Boss by Ford.
My point is, I have been fortunate to experience a significant amount of right seat time with several Ford Tier IV (highest speed rating Ford bestows on their) engineering development drivers at various tracks. Most recently at VIR. The cars included 5.0 track pack, prototype boss and GT500. These drivers know exactly how hard to PUSH the equipment to find weaknesses and assess strengths. It is quite simply amazing to see what Ford gives us in the hands of a professional driver who knows the vehicle limits. I would say few if any forum participants could match their skills. They do this for a living, day in and day out to give us one heck of a car.
All the Ford vehicles tested by these experienced drivers use the plain old Motorcraft PM-1C DOT 3 brake fluid (500F dry and 284F wet) and I have never seen or heard them complain of brake fade due to boiling the Motorcraft fluid. Our cars were developed using this fluid and it is not “that” bad. Everyone is free to spend the money and wholesale change-out this OE fluid as soon as you get your car to DOT 4 or DOT 5.1, but do you really think your driving skill will push the car at levels needing the higher capability brake fluid? Really?
Seasoned track drivers gave me the advice of spending initial money on a GOOD helmet and gloves and buying more track time to get experience. Until your driving capabilities exceed that of your car, they said, your money is best spent on track driving experience rather than car modifications. Just an observation from those whose driving skills way exceed mine…..
5/8/11, 04:38 PM
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Anyone know how the brake bias is with these Brembos. I had stock Brembos on my 350z and the front bias was noticeable. I swapped to a full 14" StopTech kit and the braking was much flatter and even. I also ran seperate pads for the track, Performance Friction pads like scott.
Brakes, and handling were the reason I sold my GT and got the 350z. After a scare at Pocono when my brakes completely faded on the outer bank going over 100 mph I was like screw this car. lol.
Heres a pic of my StopTechs. I loved them.
Brakes, and handling were the reason I sold my GT and got the 350z. After a scare at Pocono when my brakes completely faded on the outer bank going over 100 mph I was like screw this car. lol.
Heres a pic of my StopTechs. I loved them.
5/8/11, 06:35 PM
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****!!!!, Zoldier, that's a great looking set-up. VERY well done!!!
Ford has hundreds if not thousands of hours in track tuning and tweaking the brakes, suspension, etc. in the new Boss. I'd be pretty certain that they have brake bias spot on. Now, that doesn't mean that improvements can't be made in the braking department!
Ford has hundreds if not thousands of hours in track tuning and tweaking the brakes, suspension, etc. in the new Boss. I'd be pretty certain that they have brake bias spot on. Now, that doesn't mean that improvements can't be made in the braking department!
5/8/11, 06:52 PM
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Everyone is free to spend the money and wholesale change-out this OE fluid as soon as you get your car to DOT 4 or DOT 5.1, but do you really think your driving skill will push the car at levels needing the higher capability brake fluid? Really?
Seasoned track drivers gave me the advice of spending initial money on a GOOD helmet and gloves and buying more track time to get experience. Until your driving capabilities exceed that of your car, they said, your money is best spent on track driving experience rather than car modifications. Just an observation from those whose driving skills way exceed mine…..
Seasoned track drivers gave me the advice of spending initial money on a GOOD helmet and gloves and buying more track time to get experience. Until your driving capabilities exceed that of your car, they said, your money is best spent on track driving experience rather than car modifications. Just an observation from those whose driving skills way exceed mine…..
5/8/11, 06:55 PM
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Eddie, great looking Z car. I used to own a 1993 300 ZX TT and it was a fun car. Can you please describe some of the performance differences between your Boss and your Z car?