Bossdog

PTRocks,
That's a great braking video instruction. I've seen it before, but its a great to view again and again for us Newbie's. Especially going into a track day weekend.

One addition to Adam81's great write up. One we all know but don't always include. I for one am appreciative for all Ford's compromises. Yes, the tranny sucks and the engine / oil cooling is poor. But yes, I'm gald. A $43K race car is the only one I'll every be able to afford! A 2012 GT-R is $90K. Sorry, but at $60K for a Toy car, I Gotta walk away. For the dollars, this car is TOTALLY AWESOME! and I am EXTREMELY appreciative of the Ford Motor Company putting it within reach of many "Average" car enthuisits! That could not have been accomplished without some of the compromises.

adam81

I agree with this 100%. This is something I have never overlooked and one of the top reasons I got the car. I think I will add this to my review....

nota4re

One (three?) more data point(s). Those 3 of us at MMP last week on OEM pads and rotors = no complaints about "nose dive". Next sessions will be with 2-piece rotors and HTC60 pads. Will share experiences here!!

adam81 - I assume you were on shock setting "5"??

JScheier

But... but... I have excuses

Honestly, with the DTC60s on front and OEM on the back, there was only severe brake dive when I over-braked. I attribute most of this to the fact that I went from a 2900 lb, 230 rwhp car to a 3555 lb, 400 rwhp car with little to no seat time. The brakes on the Boss are much better than what I had on the M3, and have much more feedback and feel.

I do think a better / more balanced pad compound on the rear would help with my re-learning process... but we'll see. The OEM pad compounds are pretty well balanced front to rear. Running track pads on front and OEM is just a shortcut I took because a) I didn't have time for a rear pad swap and b) I just plain ran out of time at HPR to swap them. I'll try to have a more balanced set at Hastings... but I've got a ton on my plate right now (new wheels, tires, camber plates, front GT surround and a roll of chicken wire)... it may not get done.

cloud9

First of all great writeup Adam. I've been out in SLC so not on the forums then this thing called work got in the way when I got back.

Jeff, I have the same question you do about the front/rear bias. I've only run the 70/60 combo and I haven't had any braking issues. I don't get any ABS kicking off due to improper bias. That said the car still "dives" as I've seen in some pics of my car under heavy braking. I've also driven one on track with stock pads/rotors/fluid and after about 5 laps I called it quits because in my mind I felt I was on the edge of losing brakes.

MJockey

Here what I'm thinking. The significant rotor size difference front to rear already gives the car a heavy front brake bias. If you run the same brake compound in the front and rear or even a slightly more aggressive compound in the rear, it would shift some of the bias back to the rears. This would cause less nose dive, less weight transfer to the noses, which would mean less rear ABS activation.

Of course going too aggressive on the rears will cause rear wheel lockup as well.

SoCalBoss

The Track Attack cars used Performance Friction pads and stock rotors. I'm pretty sure they were the 01 compound in the front. I remember the rear being different, but don't remember for sure. I think it was the 97 compound in the rear.

cloud9

I don’t know about all this but I do know that I ran the DTC 70/60 combo on the GT500 for 3 years and 1 year on the Boss and that combo flat out works. I know a couple other guys running that combo on their GT500s successfully as well. I almost never engage ABS and I brake hard. These are aggressive pads but they stop a heavy car. I have 11 track days on the current set of front rings on my DBA 5000s and 15 days on the rear 4000s. The fronts are heat checked but still not cracked through and the rears show almost no wear.

cloud9

Boy do I have you fooled! Now if I could only get my wife to think that way

Sabre

I hope this isn't comparing apples to oranges too much.

On my 07 S197, I have been using Hawk DTC 70's up front, on DBA 4000 slotted rotors, SS lines and Motul hi temp fluid.

On the rear ( and here's the reason for my post ) I've been using Hawk HT 10 pads, slotted rotors, SS lines, etc. etc.

I find the Hawk HT 10 pads to give a solid, yet smooth initial bite but have never experienced any lockup.

For those who don't think their rear pads are quite doing the job that they want/need and feel like trying some different pad combinations, I can recommend trying the Hawk HT 10 pad.

StillIntense

Been a while since I've posted, but had to join in this one, especially with cloud9 on board.
In general, I've got about 300 track miles on my Boss at this point (regular Boss). Setup for me includes the removal of the rear brake shields, trans scoop, brake ducts, Castrol SRF fluid, Nitto NT-01s on Boss 302R wheels, and Hawk Blue 9012 pads front and rear.
I must say that I didn't experience any cooling (and that's in SC in the summer) or trans problems at all. Also, I didn't experience any of the serious brake dive issues either, but I was also using the same pads front and rear and I don't stab my brakes, but rather roll on and off. Typically I had the dampers set on 5 front and rear, but did also try it with the rears set to 4. Very neutral, with easy throttle oversteer as needed. I flat crushed a brand new M3, although I gridded behind him, I passed him on the first lap.
I will say though that I was less than impressed with the ability of the brakes to hold up. Carolina Motorsports Park is known for being tough on brakes, and I could definitely tell that the brakes were giving up after 3-4 hard laps. Other than that, the Boss is a rocket ship, the Racaros are awesome (why in the heck didn't they put in a slot for an anti-submarine belt?) and the engine is unreal.
I gridded ahead of Jim Edwards in his fully track prepped Shelby GT and his 40 years of track experience. He was on my bumper on every turn for the first lap under green, but after that the Boss was gone. Afterwards, he said "****, that Boss pulls like a freight train out of the corners!"
Mark

cloud9

Nice! Sounds like you were having a great time. Are you planning on a pad change? I have yet to run into an M3 that could hold up, but would really like to find one driven well to know for sure. The brand new ones I've seen looked to be somewhat novice drivers. I've run into some salty dogs driving older ones though, but they just don't have the hp to keep up with the Boss despite their ability to carve the corners.

adam81

My rears were not locking up. Something in the rear end of the car is vibrating and shaking extremly hard under hard braking. It is only at the end of the braking. Not the beginning or entire duration. At this point we believe it is the rear abs acting up when all that weight gets transferred. I do not feel any shaking in the steering wheel. But the car shakes so violently it is felt throughout the entire car.

2012YellowBoss

Adam
Great write-up, I agree with much of what you wrote but not about the novice stuff, looked like some nice driving to me. I glad (sad) to hear your issues with the trans are the same as mine, I have been locked out more then once and down-shifting to 4Th has been a little problem also. I even did it in a Miller car but I think this one is more on me. I will say when I pulled the Miller car out of the garage I felt like I was shifting a total different make, model and type of car - night and day difference in the feel of the trans.

On the brake issue, I asked Bryan to join in to tell us the pads on the Miller cars. I have not had this issue at all. I drive Palm Beach, long straight at 140 down to a tight right turn and Sebring several straights to hard turns and even Homestead with long straights but only one into a real tight turn. I am using HP plus all around on mine for now.

MJockey

Adam, were you running with AdvanceTrac fully off? Running in Sport mode with different size diameter wheels (front to rear) will cause early ABS activation.

nota4re

Hmmmm. Definitely not related to wheel diameter but maybe overall tire diameter. But even at this, OEM programming has been increasing tolerant of small changes to OEM.

adam81

Yes I had everything fully off. Out of the 5 track days I only ran the Hoosiers 1.5 days. The problem with the rear abs was worse with the stock Pirellis. I talked to Hawk Performance about the issue, and they are sending me DTC 60s for the rear. I will be doing a write up on their amazing customer service soon....

StillIntense

Gary,
Yup, agree completely about the M3s. Newer ones seem to have newer drivers; would like to run into a new one driven by an experienced track person.
Yes, I'm changing to pads to Performance Friction. The Hawk Blues seemed a bit a little light on initial bite to me.
Mark

adam81

As I stated the posted video is with worn out front tires. Here is how worn out they were..... The video is my second to last session I ran on these tires. They were way to narrow.

06GT

Well...those are done!

I scrubbed almost all the horizontal tread off a set of NT01s this weekend, 3 days of use. Effectively I now have a "Nitto R6" left with two grooves around the diameter of the tire lol. These cars are heavy!