2013 GT500 here in Germany
9/25/11, 12:51 PM
#22
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Word of advice to photoshoppers, once you create and post the image here, put those images on Facebook at least...
Last edited by thePill; 9/25/11 at 12:54 PM.
9/25/11, 01:19 PM
#23
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I didn't care much for Burningman's final product, but I hope Ford takes a good look at his initial concept for the rear:
https://themustangsource.com/f806/20...8/#post5956055
Maybe I'm a little dense, but isn't the 50th Anniversary car the first Mustang III? In other words, aren't they one and the same?
https://themustangsource.com/f806/20...8/#post5956055
Maybe I'm a little dense, but isn't the 50th Anniversary car the first Mustang III? In other words, aren't they one and the same?
9/25/11, 01:57 PM
#25
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Yes sir, they are the same... I was referring to my current 2013 GT500 project as in "I will be doing the same for the Mustang III". As in, The 50th is coming out, I will be participating as well.
Last edited by thePill; 9/25/11 at 02:02 PM.
9/25/11, 05:09 PM
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9/25/11, 10:48 PM
#28
MOTM Committee Member
I personally submitted Doug's renditions to Ford and also posted them on the Ford Mustang Facebook page months ago. The 2014/15 photoshop thread was so popular that it even made some recent threads/blogs elsewhere. TNs concepts are fantastic but I did not know his real name so a link was provided instead of a pic and by "Doug "Burningman" Schramm from (link provided).
Word of advice to photoshoppers, once you create and post the image here, put those images on Facebook at least...
Word of advice to photoshoppers, once you create and post the image here, put those images on Facebook at least...
Are you on board with the rumors we've heard of a 5.8L in the 2013 GT500?
I first joined this forum back when the '05s were being speculated on. Then my activity died down but I came back as leaks about the '10 started to trickle out. Now with the refresh for '13 and the redesign for '15 these types of threads make me a little nostalgic
9/26/11, 01:50 AM
#29
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If there is indeed a 5.8 destined for the GT500/SVT Cobra, I just don’t see it being the Condor that we all have come to respect over the last 5 years. I was at Nurburgring in June while the twins were running and I can honestly tell you… that was a Condor engine in those cars. Whatever was running in Nurburg was definitely the 2013 drivetrain, there is absolutely no reason to invest in such testing if the cars were being scraped, even if it were suspension, brake, cooling and tire mules, it would obviously benefit the car more to test with the production drivetrain.
Some have probably heard of the Coyote long stroke and there is always a possibility that someday that engine will see production but as long as there is a Boss 302, which has great internal structuring as far as forged parts go, it would be far easier to supercharge a Boss 302… What a great engine that would be. The 5.8 CLS would require a very long stroke and in my opinion, it really starts to mess with the rod/stroke ratio. I did a little online math on the Coyote Long Stroke but remember, this is all speculation because there is nothing known about the engine.
The Coyote 5.0 uses a 3.629 bore and the 5.4 uses a 4.165 stroke bringing the engine to a 344.64CI or a 5.6477 liter, the thing is, the Coyote long stroke will not use the 5.4 stroke (I will explain). It is rumored that the Coyote long stroke uses the 5.4's deck height which is 10.079 inches. The 5.0's deck height is 8.937 inches so that is over an inch higher (1.142 to be exact). The difference in stroke is 3.649 vs. 4.165 which is only a 0.516 inch difference. Just because the deck height is being used doesn’t mean the stroke will be the same, the 5.4's connecting rods (6.658 inches) could be used but seeing that the 5.0 and the 5.4 bottom end is somewhat different, you never know (We will explore rod length later). The actual stroke of the Coyote 5.8 will be between 4.241 to 4.253, which still gives Ford some room to play with. So, if the Coyote 5.8 used a 10.079 inch deck height and continued to use the 4.165 stroke, the piston would not reach top dead center, this is because the Coyote 5.0 is a compact engine that uses the 4.6's 5.933 connecting rod length. Simply adding a half an inch to the connecting rod wouldn't allow the piston to reach top dead center so a special connecting rod specific to the Coyote 5.8 would be needed.
It wouldn't be as simple as using the 5.4's connecting rods in the 5.0/5.8 because the bottom end is geometrically different between the two.
The deck heights are 1.142 inches apart (8.937 vs. 10.079) between the 5.0 and the 5.4 and the connecting rods are 0.725 inches different (5.933 vs. 6.658) leaving about 0.417 inches of play. The 5.4 has 3.421 inches between connecting rod and deck height, the 5.0 has 3.004 inches between rod and deck (more compact than the 5.4). Take the 0.417 inch difference between the rods and apply that to the 5.0 connecting rod, we would get a 6.35 inch connecting rod needed for the Coyote 5.8. Leaving 3.729 inches between rod and deck and again, this 5.8 would offer a shorter rod, more compact and more durable. Requiring the crankshaft's stroke to be 0.308 inches more than the 5.4's and 0.725 more than the 5.0. Since the Coyote 5.0 is the basis for the 5.8 engine, the stroke would be 4.374 and this is way too much. The rod would have to increase its length between 0.121 and 0.133 inches (we will use the 0.133 which was taken from the 5.8's maximum 4.253 stroke above) giving us a 6.483 inch connecting rod needed to reduce the 4.374 stroke down to the maximum 4.253 needed for a true 5.8 (rounded up). This is still almost a 1/4 inch shorter rod which is good for forced induction.
I know it looks like a bunch of crap and most of the math is theoretical but here is the run down...
Bore: 3.629
Stroke: 4.253
Rod: 6.483
Rod/Stroke ratio: 1.524:1 (kinda low, this could be a problem)
Deck Height: 10.079
Cubic Inch: 351.92
Liters: 5.767
Bore Spacing would continue to be 3.937 inches
The deck heights are 1.142 inches apart (8.937 vs. 10.079) between the 5.0 and the 5.4 and the connecting rods are 0.725 inches different (5.933 vs. 6.658) leaving about 0.417 inches of play. The 5.4 has 3.421 inches between connecting rod and deck height, the 5.0 has 3.004 inches between rod and deck (more compact than the 5.4). Take the 0.417 inch difference between the rods and apply that to the 5.0 connecting rod, we would get a 6.35 inch connecting rod needed for the Coyote 5.8. Leaving 3.729 inches between rod and deck and again, this 5.8 would offer a shorter rod, more compact and more durable. Requiring the crankshaft's stroke to be 0.308 inches more than the 5.4's and 0.725 more than the 5.0. Since the Coyote 5.0 is the basis for the 5.8 engine, the stroke would be 4.374 and this is way too much. The rod would have to increase its length between 0.121 and 0.133 inches (we will use the 0.133 which was taken from the 5.8's maximum 4.253 stroke above) giving us a 6.483 inch connecting rod needed to reduce the 4.374 stroke down to the maximum 4.253 needed for a true 5.8 (rounded up). This is still almost a 1/4 inch shorter rod which is good for forced induction.
I know it looks like a bunch of crap and most of the math is theoretical but here is the run down...
Bore: 3.629
Stroke: 4.253
Rod: 6.483
Rod/Stroke ratio: 1.524:1 (kinda low, this could be a problem)
Deck Height: 10.079
Cubic Inch: 351.92
Liters: 5.767
Bore Spacing would continue to be 3.937 inches
There is always the Ecoboost option as well, Ford has said that there is no room for a turbo under the hood of a GT and that there will be no “Road Runner” for the GT500. Ford wasn’t lying, there is no room for a turbo under the hood of the GT however, there is room for two turbos on each side of the transmission. There is a Mustang that was researched, developed and now produced by the aftermarket, in collaboration with SMS, 5.0 magazine, Ford and a few others here in Europe… the original prototype was called EU-01 and it was successful. There could also be a play of words going on in the “No turbo GT500” comment, it very well may be an SVT Cobra so in that respect.. they would not have lied. The advantage Ford has is drivetrains, TVS 5.4, TVS 5.8 Condor, TVS 5.8 Coyote, TT 5.0 (EU-01 style), Ecoboost 5.0 (in the valley) and SC or turbo Boss 302… the possibilities are endless. The MT82 had its problems (what new manual doesn't) but, it is in fact the Getrag 6MT1500 which is an incredible base to start with. If SVT were to switch to a Coyote/Getrag combo, we would see another 50-60lbs lost with that application. The Coyote is about 30lbs lighter than the 5.4 and the Getrag only weighs 108lbs, the TR6060 weighs between 149lbs in the GT500 and 200lbs (depending on gearset model and DCT) As for the 2013 GT500, I believe that it will be a Condor based engine still using the TR6060 it always has, I also believe that there is no reason to bore out the engine and tamper with the 5.4s superior durability.
Last edited by thePill; 9/26/11 at 02:11 AM.
9/26/11, 03:12 AM
#30
Legacy TMS Member
I don't see a NEED to grow the 5.4 any bigger, unless Ford just wants to be able to say that the GT has a "302" and the Cobra/GT500 has a "351", going for historical numbers, even though the engines are nothing like the original 302/351's
The current GT500 has factory-warrantied options that boost its output to 620 hp or so, and non-warrantied options of over 700hp, so the engine is strong, can take more power.
With the rumored bump in output to 620 hp, I really don't see a NEED to go to bigger displacement, when the current 5.4 easily can support that HP level
Ford needs to put more R&D into making that HP hook-up.
The current GT500 has factory-warrantied options that boost its output to 620 hp or so, and non-warrantied options of over 700hp, so the engine is strong, can take more power.
With the rumored bump in output to 620 hp, I really don't see a NEED to go to bigger displacement, when the current 5.4 easily can support that HP level
Ford needs to put more R&D into making that HP hook-up.
9/26/11, 06:46 AM
#32
I Have No Life
9/26/11, 04:07 PM
#35
He is knowlegable and has a thread leading to Ford, why you hating? You don't like it, don't read it. Let the rest of us read and tingle with anticipation without being reminded of the lack of real substance.
9/26/11, 04:17 PM
#37
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Ok, I'll admit I got a little hyped at first. But then I saw how long the post was and said eff it.
9/26/11, 06:59 PM
#38
I Have No Life
9/27/11, 12:30 PM
#40
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If you don't want another international source then you can wait for Brenda to post her pics. Until then, I will be at Gantry when I can.... Since the 500s left early, it tells me that they were more than happy with their performance... SVT blatantly tested during the 2 week industry booking in June right in front of team Corvette and continued testing along side GM during the ZL Oink runs. Confident? I would say so..
If you think SVT is going to just release, on a whim, what exactly they are doing with the car then you would be mistaken. The car coming out this year will be far better than what you have now, this is according to the locals that watched the car....
We have a lot invested in the GT500, why would I want to mislead enthusiast?
Last edited by thePill; 9/27/11 at 04:02 PM.