krcn

Hello everyone!
I recently bought a salvage 2013 v6 Mustang and exported it to Europe.

During the rebuild, I noticed it has a BBK long tube headers installed and o2 sensors spacers (defoulers) on all 4 sensors.
After the repair is done, I've deleted all the codes and I'm struggling with the o2 sensors.
There were codes for all 4 sensors.
Since I have no catalytic converters, I changed the o2 defoulers on downstream sensors and the codes are gone, but there are still 2 codes for upstream sensors:
P0155 - bank 2, sensor 1
P2627 - bank 1, sensor 1

When I go WOT having 1,5k RPM, it hesitates at 3k rpm then goes crazy fast after this so there is definitely something bad with the air/fuel ratio.

I thought that wire extenders are bad so I removed it and extended the cables myself (soldered it), same errors.
Some people on different forums say that those sensors don't like messing with the cables and may throw different codes due to wrong resistance/voltage.

Is there anyone that had to deal with BBK long tubes and upstream sensors? Any ideas?
Shall I get the tune (BBK told me to do it) or replace o2 sensors first?
I know that long tubes may throw errors but related only to downstream sensors due to sensor movement...

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05stangkc

Welcome!

You Were Stuck in Moderation! You Are Now Free!

With The Mods Described and Still Having a Stock Tune????

I Say get That Tune!

If You Plan on Changing More???



This May Help!

Here is The Shop Manual Section For Powertrain Codes and Diag!



BTMO

Kc

Bert

Welcome to the forum

As I understand it, there are two potential problems with long tube headers and O2 sensors:

1) The upstream sensors don't get hot enough to show "ready" or work correctly. This is important because the upstream O2 sensors are used to control the air/fuel mix. Also as I understand it, you do NOT want extenders on the front O2 sensors, because you need them working correctly. Not sure how to cure the "not hot enough" problem, if that is in fact the issue.

2) Assuming the catalytic converters have been removed, the downstream sensors will show that the cats are not working (because they are gone). The extenders are used to overcome this error message, or the downstream sensors can be turned off in the tune. But few tuners will do that any more in the US, due to EPA crack-down. The rear O2 sensors do not affect the air/fuel mix, they only tell if the cats are working.

again this is "as I understand it" and there could be some holes in my understanding; but I hope this might help

krcn

Hey Bert,

Downstream sensors topic does not matter at all because defoulers fixed the issue and since I am located in Poland, I already passed the inspection
Upstream sensors should indicate different errors when not heating up correctly.
My upstream sensors are probably bad because those errors are related to resistance in electricity (based on the document attached on the first response).

I ordered 2 used oem sensors (100% working) to test it with BBK extensions. If it'll work, I will order brand new ones.

Bert

I hope that works, I'm not sure what else to do .... but I know there are cars with long tube headers that do run right, so there has to be a fix .... hopefully someone who knows more will chime in here soon

m05fastbackGT

Regardless of adding 02 extenders, once you upgrade to long tube headers, it increases the amount of airflow and changes the air/fuel ratio when compared to running the stock manifolds.... Therefore, upgrading to Long Tube headers requires an aftermarket calibration tune in order to make the necessary adjustments, otherwise your air/fuel mixture will no longer be within OEM specs and will result in causing a lean air/fuel condition... In other words, without getting a tune for Long Tube headers, your vehicle will not operate properly when running the stock calibration tune... Meanwhile, I hope this provides some answers to your questions...

In the meantime, welcome aboard.

Bert

that's an important point; I would think that the previous owner already did that, but maybe the car always ran like crap since it had the headers installed .... always dangerous to a$$-u-me

krcn

Well, previous owner was a 18 years old guy from Alabama who installed LEDs under the car and o2 sensor spacer on upstream sensors

m05fastbackGT

Exactly! That is assuming the previous owner did in fact get the car re-tuned for running the LT headers, but when the OP brought up how his car is running like crap, the first thing that came to mind, is whether or not the car was re-tuned properly or if it's still running on the OEM calibration tune... If the car's calibration tune was in fact upgraded to run LT headers, but runs like crap? Then perhaps the OP's car got a very lousy calibration tune from whoever the tuning vendor happens to be and might consider locating a reputable tuning vendor who has a very good reputation and experience as an aftermarket tuner...

Unfortunately, that really doesn't provide enough valuable information to rely upon...

krcn

Could it "lose" the tune during transport?
As I said, I brought it to Europe so it hasn't run from November to February.

Bert

it should not -- I believe the tune is stored in "flash" memory, which should be permanent until re-flashed .... for sure they don't get lost during short periods of dead battery .... but I don't know what would happen if the battery was dead or disconnected for a long period of time

m05fastbackGT

Once the calibration tune is uploaded into the vehicle's ECM, the stock calibration tune is then stored into the hand-held tuning device's memory.... Once the calibration tune is uploaded into the vehicle's ECM, it remains stored in memory permanently until the stock calibration tune is re-flashed back into the ECM by the hand-held tuning device... Also, keep in mind that only one calibration tune at a time can be uploaded in the vehicle's ECM...

John! The aftermarket calibration tune is no different from the stock calibration tune... Once the tune has been uploaded into the vehicle's ECM, the only way it can be removed from the ECM is by either returning to stock via the hand-held tuning device or re-flashing with a different calibration tunning file... The calibration tuning files cannot be lost due to battery failures or if the battery has been disconnected... If that were the case? the stock calibration tune would also end up getting lost as well... So, no worries to be concerned about there at all...

krcn

That makes sense. I will change my upstream o2 sensors today, hope that'll help.

m05fastbackGT

If it doesn't help? Then you'll know something is not right with your calibration tune... I would still recommend that you find out which calibration tune is in your vehicle...

krcn

Gents, seems I had both o2 sensor bad.
Changed them today, instant relief, no hesitation on 3k rpm, runs like crazy.

krcn

Well, you replied 2mins before my update
All good.

Now second problem... When I accelerate hard, there is a loud metal grinding/rattling sound for a few seconds or until I stop. Only above 3k rpm when hard accelerating. I thought that driveshaft is touching some heatshield when vibrating...

05stangkc

Check This One Out!

https://themustangsource.com/forums/...ration-550939/

KC

m05fastbackGT

So which sensors did you replace, the rear 02 or front 02 sensors? Now that we all know it was the 02 sensors, you can also now rest assure your car was re-flashed with an aftermarket calibration tune designed to operate Long Tube Headers... I just hope for your sake that you have the hand-held tuning device which has your vehicle's stock calibration tune stored in the device, in the event you should ever need to re-flash back to the stock calibration tune...

krcn

I replaced both upstream o2 sensors.
Rear sensors dont show any error because I used defoulers.
I dont have any device because its almost impossible to get it in my country. Shipping a bama tuner will be like 700 total including taxes.

krcn

Naaah, I have 4 new tires, perfectly balanced wheels etc.
This sound is like throwing rocks at the muffler for few seconds.