Engine tick.
6/15/11, 06:55 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Tony Alonso
Did you contact Deysha from Ford Customer Service who posts here to see if there was more that could be done for this?
6/15/11, 07:14 PM
#23
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6/15/11, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Everett
Motorcraft doesn't make a true synthetic. They lied to you
He's got some 'splainin to do.
6/15/11, 09:37 PM
#26
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Would you clarify what you mean by "destroy oil"
What kind of paperwork?
To what specific engine families are you referring? It would seem that the available engine architectures would have changed quite dramatically in 40 years.
What types of information sources, beyond just Amsoil information?
Are you talking about extended race conditions or street driving?
I am aware of the economy aspects of 5W-20 for US CAFE regulations. They are a reality of the market. That said, oil pressure plays a role in the functioning of the cam phasing and piston cooling in the Coyote engines, so it would seem "playing around" with different weights could be in conflict with the proper functioning.
The recent 5.0 Mustang magazine talks about the purpose of 5W-50 oil in the Boss 302 engine, given the high RPM nature of the power curve and the use of the car as a road racer.
I have had great results with Amsoil 0w-30 and mobil 0w-40. And mileage didn't decrease going thicker. Mileage actually got better because of how thin these oils are at start up. There is an abundance of info on the CAFE laws and ford backdating oil specs to save them money in carbon taxes. The same ford motors in Australia call for a 5w-30. Why. No cafe laws. Use what you want. I don't care.
The recent 5.0 Mustang magazine talks about the purpose of 5W-50 oil in the Boss 302 engine, given the high RPM nature of the power curve and the use of the car as a road racer.
6/15/11, 11:11 PM
#27
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Because these ohc motors just destroy oil. Oil is a hobby of mine and I sell Amsoil. They send me tons of paperwork on different engines and their oil needs. Just about every chrysler engine since the 70s need an oil with elevated detergents because they are all sludge prone. Fords 2v,3v and 4v motors need a very robust oil because they shear them very quickly. I read alot. The oil layer once at temp with 5w-20 is too thin and will accelerate wear. If you never rev the engine or push the car hard 0w-20 is fine. But if you spend any time above 2500 rpm a 5w-20 isn't thick enough. I have had great results with Amsoil 0w-30 and mobil 0w-40. And mileage didn't decrease going thicker. Mileage actually got better because of how thin these oils are at start up. There is an abundance of info on the CAFE laws and ford backdating oil specs to save them money in carbon taxes. The same ford motors in Australia call for a 5w-30. Why. No cafe laws. Use what you want. I don't care.
So Chrysler's OHV engines beat the hell out of oil and make sludge because they are a pushrod motor. All those pushrod tubes and rockers, eh?
Then OHC engines beat the crap out of oil too, eh? Yet without pushrod tubes and rockers...
Exactly how many diff engines have you been intimate with??? How many have you mic'd with plastigage??
I have rebuilt numerous OHV and OHC engines - particularly the Lotus 907 DOHC and I strongly disagree with your propaganda/sales pitch.
You claim amsoil is superior yet you fail to disclose (much less explain) it thickens to a 50w at 10k. Talk about sludge!! lol
And mileage DEFINITELY decreased substantially with amsoil sludge in LIVE tests with constant samples submitted - we've already talked about that but in this post you umm, fail to mention.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/amsoil.html
In 74 Lotus I4 DOHC 4V (7k redline) required 20w-50 (I got 110k and still running strong when I sold it), in 70 & 72 Toyota I6 OHV 2V required 10w-40 (100k+ out of 2 - still running when I sold them), in 83 Ford I6 OHV 2V required 10w-40 (I got 218K from that engine), 84 AMC I6 OHV 2V required 5w-30 (110k still running strong when I sold in 2009), in 91 & 94 Saturn I4 DOHC 4V required 5w-30 (100k out of each of them before sold), in the 2k's the Ford 4.6 SOHC 3V required 5w-20 (with numerous awards and engines over 100k & 200k). I have a 69 GMC stock truck with a 350 OHV 2V that requires 10w-40 (100k+).
Hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles on commercial Ford trucks that used Ford spec oil changed at Ford Dealer.
NONE of the above went less than 100k. All dino oil (except Ford 4.6 uses Motorcraft Synth blend).
Point is, whatever the manufacturer states, it is directly a result of their specified tolerances for that engine.
I have a 2010 Chrylser I4 DOHC 4V - also subject to CAFE - and it uses the same 5w-30 that its same car/same engine used in 2008 as well as back in 2000. If CAFE was pushing thinner oil for better mileage why wouldn't Chrysler have dropped to 5w-20?? You never respond to that.
You make NO mention of the incredible improvements in computer controlled manufacturing tolerance of our current era - incl formed pistons & rods - in your false allegations.
And yet YOUR 4.6 2V engine broke with amsoil.
Come on man - if you're going to play expert, at least submit complete and accurate information.
No offense.
Last edited by cdynaco; 6/16/11 at 04:23 AM.
6/16/11, 05:51 AM
#30
A Man Just Needs Some....
All of the sludge problems with any specific engines don't have much to do with oil types. Design flaws are the true issues. Oil passages, cylinder head cooling, dead areas where oil puddles up and cooks on top of cylinder heads. The mighty Toyota has been dealing with sludge issues for years now. Thinner oil will prolong some of these problems but it's still design issues. Sludge is not a design and engineering priority when the newer engines are drawn up. Proper lubrication is what is engineered. After a few years of sludge issues, the manufacturer may decide to recommend a thinner oil to prolong some of the issues. But the issue is still there. I understand the cafe deal also but any descent oil will last if changed at the correct increments. Engineering issues are the big reason we are recommended to use thin synthetic oils. All types of engineering issues. Not just sludge.
6/16/11, 06:21 AM
#31
Legacy TMS Member
There is a 5W20 synthetic oil, which if made similarly to how Mobil 1 is made, might be considered "not synthetic" by some companies because of the base oil stock that is used and how it is refined.
As Everett sells Amsoil, it is possible that is the basis for his comment.
"What's the best oil" discussions seem to often invoke many points of view, however, I generally come back to "use what the manufacturer recommends" for the purpose of maintaining your powertrain warranty.
Hopefully you can some additional help in the diagnosis of your engine tick. Relating it to "you need to change your oil and that will cure it" is not necessarily something I would do, given all of the engineering time that went into the Coyote.
As Everett sells Amsoil, it is possible that is the basis for his comment.
"What's the best oil" discussions seem to often invoke many points of view, however, I generally come back to "use what the manufacturer recommends" for the purpose of maintaining your powertrain warranty.
Hopefully you can some additional help in the diagnosis of your engine tick. Relating it to "you need to change your oil and that will cure it" is not necessarily something I would do, given all of the engineering time that went into the Coyote.
6/16/11, 06:24 AM
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Excellent point, 2012GT.
Thanks for that.
I'm done worrying about it....for the most part.
Time to just enjoy the car.
You know, last night was a nice ride home from work.
Wasn't too hot, windows down, exhaust soundin' good.
Broke loose a little making a right turn, powered out of it.
6/16/11, 06:31 AM
#33
A Man Just Needs Some....
Oh yeah. Engine tick noise. Sorry I got sucked into another oil discussion. Make sure it gets fixed. Don't take "normal noise" for an answer. I wouldn't really worry too much about where it's coming from. That's the dealers problem. Warranty is there for a reason. Just make sure it is resolved while you are still warrantied. Let us know what they find when it is fixed.
6/16/11, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JPJr
I'm calling my service manager up.
He's got some 'splainin to do.
6/16/11, 06:52 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Tony Alonso
Would you clarify what you mean by "destroy oil"
What kind of paperwork?
To what specific engine families are you referring? It would seem that the available engine architectures would have changed quite dramatically in 40 years.
What types of information sources, beyond just Amsoil information?
Are you talking about extended race conditions or street driving?
I am aware of the economy aspects of 5W-20 for US CAFE regulations. They are a reality of the market. That said, oil pressure plays a role in the functioning of the cam phasing and piston cooling in the Coyote engines, so it would seem "playing around" with different weights could be in conflict with the proper functioning.
The recent 5.0 Mustang magazine talks about the purpose of 5W-50 oil in the Boss 302 engine, given the high RPM nature of the power curve and the use of the car as a road racer.
6/16/11, 07:04 AM
#37
Legacy TMS Member
And what. Is the info Amsoil sends me wrong. I really don't think they would go picking on a manufacturer. They send me info on sludge prone engines so I can inform owners of those particular cars and recommend an oil for their application. Why do the 2v 3v and 4v motors destroy oil. I really have no idea however when I send my used oil for analysis to blackstone they inform me. How about you contact Amsoil and you can get all this great info. Fair enough
6/16/11, 09:16 AM
#38
A Man Just Needs Some....
Too much mountain air and solitude. Entertaining though. I wouldn't take it too personal bro.
Last edited by adrenalin; 6/16/11 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Removed quote as that post was deleted
6/16/11, 10:04 PM
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Except that your info is quite inaccurate - from the links YOU sent me, to where amsoil turns to dang near gear oil over time, to the dramatic DECREASE in mileage that amsoil caused as it ages (& thickens). lol
The fact is, that a properly spec'd engine at rpm - who's temp is properly held in check - does not need a heavy weight oil for lubrication. Cold starts is where the most wear is. OHV's but probably moreso for OHC's. Further, a thicker oil does not respond to cooling as fast is a properly spec'd (according to tolerances) thinner oil does. Thinner oil dissipates heat quicker. (Caveat - naturally, track conditions are different from street driving.)
Again, you dodge the Chrysler example about CAFE, and you dodge the fantastic improvement in engine tolerances that don't require a heavier weight oil to make up the slack of looser tolerances of older manufacturing abilities.
Last edited by cdynaco; 6/16/11 at 10:15 PM.