Airbag Malfunction/Recaro Seats/Warranty Issues
10/23/14, 11:11 AM
#21
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Aftermarket parts will not automatically void “all” of your warranties; however, if it causes a part to fail, that specific repair will not be covered. You can refer to your warranty guide on page 13 for further info, and always speak to your service manager first as they are not all mod friendly.
Since not all dealers are mod friendly, you can locate one of our FRPP authorized dealers here.
Thanks for the PM, Tale of Two ‘stangs! I’ll get back to you as soon as possible.
Deysha
10/23/14, 11:19 AM
#22
Legacy TMS Member
First off I don't start or say anything every time you post, this is the 2nd time that I've responded recently after you've posted something that makes it seem like you're an arrogant know it all. Maybe it's just the way you come off? Or maybe you dont like having your point contested by other people. I don't know, frankly I don't care. Maybe try not to rub people the wrong way is all I'm saying. There's many different ways of getting your point across. Now please back to topic.
10/23/14, 11:23 AM
#23
Legacy TMS Member
That's what I'm saying lol! I'm all for bluntness but dang sometimes you gotta pick your spots....
Sebastian I really don't "have it in for you" believe it or not. But sometimes it does get old to me and other members is all.
And thanks Deysha for jumping in!
Sebastian I really don't "have it in for you" believe it or not. But sometimes it does get old to me and other members is all.
And thanks Deysha for jumping in!
10/23/14, 12:13 PM
#24
Shelby GT350 Member
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Knowing your consumer rights and its protections are useful. I have all the time in the world to exert my rights. Additionally, I am educated in consumer affairs and have knowledge of business and corporate law. Further, I know more than one great attorney and several good ones. Most attorneys would take on this case under a contingent agreement, i.e. I have to give them part of my settlement. However, it is going to cost Ford more money to defend this case than it cost to replace the defective parts. Therefore, I win. It just make good business sense to settle.
Well, that depends. If the installation or products installed are faulty then those companies should repair, replace, and/or pay for damages. If I have abused these products or altered the professional installation, then I have to open my wallet. You see, it is good business to stand behind your products in such cases, it build loyalty to the brand. Companies who do not, the consumer will take their business to a competitor.
If you don't like it, then don't read it. Feel free to "ignore" my posts. I'll be doing the same to you shortly...
10/23/14, 01:35 PM
#26
V6 Member
Thread Starter
While I don't have any experience hiring a lawyer for this, I don't see how they would find it worthwhile? Wouldn't your "settlement" be the repair itself and likely little (if anything at all monetary) else? I'm just not sure where they would find their cut in that deal.
To answer your question. First, I would be out about $310 for the filing fee in Federal court. My complaint would be against Ford Motor Company and the local dealership. Those parties would have to have their lawyers respond within 30 days with a 30 day extension possible (if the Judge grants their motion). Already, Ford has spent more money than the repair itself on attorney salaries/fees. So, they would settle. The settlement would be the repair itself, plus attorney's fees, court cost (my filing fee), and compensation for my time. The attorney fee will be based on the amount of time he/she bills for the case (usually hourly and one minute is the same as an hour). Therefore, every phone call, email, looking at evidence, warranty contracts, etc. is billable. Just think about it, at $250 an hour, how quickly that adds up. Not only that, I will get paid for my time as well and the Judge can decide up to what amount is reasonable for my inconvenience. It could be thousands, tens of thousands, it all depends, but it will be no less than my hourly wage: $33 for each hour this goes on. What is in it for the attorney? His fees plus 30 to 50% of my monetary award. The best part, I win no matter what and get paid for doing so. Why? Ford is going to settle, just good business sense, and the dealership will think twice about ever denying warranty coverage, especially on such dubious grounds...the evidence suggest that these sensor fail once in awhile, and they fail more often in the Recaro seat configuration, all without any audio system upgrade.
10/23/14, 01:45 PM
#27
V6 Member
Thread Starter
To address what wheelman has mentioned:
Aftermarket parts will not automatically void “all” of your warranties; however, if it causes a part to fail, that specific repair will not be covered. You can refer to your warranty guide on page 13 for further info, and always speak to your service manager first as they are not all mod friendly.
Since not all dealers are mod friendly, you can locate one of our FRPP authorized dealers here.
Thanks for the PM, Tale of Two ‘stangs! I’ll get back to you as soon as possible.
Deysha
Aftermarket parts will not automatically void “all” of your warranties; however, if it causes a part to fail, that specific repair will not be covered. You can refer to your warranty guide on page 13 for further info, and always speak to your service manager first as they are not all mod friendly.
Since not all dealers are mod friendly, you can locate one of our FRPP authorized dealers here.
Thanks for the PM, Tale of Two ‘stangs! I’ll get back to you as soon as possible.
Deysha
I have an appointment with Brenspeed on October 31st, in Indiana, are you telling me they can fix this airbag sensor issue under warranty?
10/24/14, 06:56 AM
#28
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Deysha
10/24/14, 08:27 AM
#29
V6 Member
Thread Starter
Deysha, are you working some behind the scene magic to help me resolve this issue? I know I sound like I have chose to use the "nuclear" option, but I am hoping it will not come to that. I have had great service in the past from the local dealership and with my 2006 Mustang GT their service people have gone well past what was expected from them, such as free repair work and TSB support/advice. I have recommended this dealership and consistently graded them excellent of surveys. It was only after I actually bought a new vehicle from them...a vehicle with under 400 miles currently on the odometer...that this issue has came up. Yes, I am aware you cannot abuse, neglect, or make extreme alterations to a system, subsystem, component, or part and have the warranty apply. I am not asking for an audio repair. I am not complaining about a Sync malfunction. I just want the airbag system, a system that was never altered or tampered with, repaired under warranty. The service manager has schedule a repair appointment, but the demeanor is suspect. There is no OBDII error code to read. The service manager had to access the PCM, via a laptop, and read the live data. He became super secretive about this data and scheduled an appointment a week later. During this he is telling my spouse and me what I previously told this forum and you. Frankly, it is stressful.
10/25/14, 03:10 PM
#30
V6 Member
Thread Starter
Update
I had my follow-on appointment with the audio installers (NW Audio, Platte City, MO.) and they did a full audio system check that included tracing wires, inspecting wiring harnesses, all connectors, etc. They made a cosmetic change to improve the aesthetics relating to the rear seat. Together, using information from iDatalink/Kenwood, each function area was checked to ensure good working order. Further, each Sync command and steering wheel control button was used and this exercise not only confirmed everything was perfect, but educated the consumer (me) as well.
Additionally, this audio shop called their local Ford dealer (they do audio grades, in-vehicle entertainment systems, remote starters, and window tinting for them and have a good working relationship with both the sales and service managers) and told them what was going on. This is a branch of the Ford dealership that wanted to assist me last week. The service manager asked me to bring them my vehicle Monday.
Lastly, the audio shop manager told the Ford dealership and me they would pay for any damages/repairs if the products, or installation of those products, are at fault.
Additionally, this audio shop called their local Ford dealer (they do audio grades, in-vehicle entertainment systems, remote starters, and window tinting for them and have a good working relationship with both the sales and service managers) and told them what was going on. This is a branch of the Ford dealership that wanted to assist me last week. The service manager asked me to bring them my vehicle Monday.
Lastly, the audio shop manager told the Ford dealership and me they would pay for any damages/repairs if the products, or installation of those products, are at fault.
10/25/14, 03:25 PM
#31
Legacy TMS Member
I had my follow-on appointment with the audio installers (NW Audio, Platte City, MO.) and they did a full audio system check that included tracing wires, inspecting wiring harnesses, all connectors, etc. They made a cosmetic change to improve the aesthetics relating to the rear seat. Together, using information from iDatalink/Kenwood, each function area was checked to ensure good working order. Further, each Sync command and steering wheel control button was used and this exercise not only confirmed everything was perfect, but educated the consumer (me) as well. Additionally, this audio shop called their local Ford dealer (they do audio grades, in-vehicle entertainment systems, remote starters, and window tinting for them and have a good working relationship with both the sales and service managers) and told them what was going on. This is a branch of the Ford dealership that wanted to assist me last week. The service manager asked me to bring them my vehicle Monday. Lastly, the audio shop manager told the Ford dealership and me they would pay for any damages/repairs if the products, or installation of those products, are at fault.
Perfect, that is all you can ask of the shop. It sounds like they're stepping up. I still believe the occurrences are unrelated, but I'm glad it's at least moving forward in your favor.
10/25/14, 03:57 PM
#32
Legacy TMS Member
Tale of Two 'Stangs, guessing you're dealing with the dealer I do (the one with locations in Platte and KCMO)? Not sure it means anything but I've had an airbag light come on and stay on, and that same dealer ended up replacing the passenger seat side airbag under the car's safety system warranty. If not for that, would have been $800+.
10/25/14, 04:13 PM
#33
V6 Member
Thread Starter
Thank you for your support and understanding. Yes, moving forwarding and doing it the easier way.
Tale of Two 'Stangs, guessing you're dealing with the dealer I do (the one with locations in Platte and KCMO)? Not sure it means anything but I've had an airbag light come on and stay on, and that same dealer ended up replacing the passenger seat side airbag under the car's safety system warranty. If not for that, would have been $800+.
Yes, the very same one. I Figured it would be a high price by the way the Ford Dealership in prison city was behaving.
10/27/14, 07:39 AM
#34
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Deysha
10/27/14, 08:00 PM
#35
V6 Member
Thread Starter
Update
This was my day:
7am found me at the local Ford dealership's service department as scheduled last week (at the start of the dilemma). A ten minute chit-chat with the service manager about who was paying for what, a promise to do the right thing, and I was off (on foot) to my local VA Hospital for a flu shot, breakfast, and a shopping spree at their canteen.
10am La Bestia was returned to my care, but the service manager suspected the non-OEM audio system installation had cause an open circuit in the Passenger Protection System. PPT(open circuit 213 VT/GN). Hey, I thought this guy said it was a sensor in the passenger seat...whatever!
11:28am updated Deysha. Told her that audio shop installation technician and a service technician (Platte City, MO) were going to pair up and trouble shoot by tracing wires for both the audio system and the Passenger Protection System.
1:30pm all parties gather at Thoroughbred Ford (Platte City) and the pop-corn eating begins (along with a visit to the parts department for some necessities).
4pm. Service department team member reports that the non-OEM audio system, including its installation, has been ruled out as the cause of the open circuit (Verified by NW Audio installation technician, Thoroughbred Ford service technician, and a Ford Service Representative).
The bad news is everyone is still trouble shooting by hand tracing and testing.
4:45pm. Service department team member asks for my drivers license and proof of insurance. It is explained to me that work has progressed, but still cannot find the cause. Oh, boy. I get a loaner vehicle to take home...OMG...a #@*! Focus...WTF!!!
At least its airbag system is working and it has Sync and the factory sound system the Mustang should have been built with.
5:15pm. Arrive safely in Leavenworth, but miffed at the local dealership. While reading emails discovered one from the local dealership saying "Here to serve you" and ending up writing a heart felt disappointment letter to the HMFIC of the service department.
Have you driven a Ford lately?!
7am found me at the local Ford dealership's service department as scheduled last week (at the start of the dilemma). A ten minute chit-chat with the service manager about who was paying for what, a promise to do the right thing, and I was off (on foot) to my local VA Hospital for a flu shot, breakfast, and a shopping spree at their canteen.
10am La Bestia was returned to my care, but the service manager suspected the non-OEM audio system installation had cause an open circuit in the Passenger Protection System. PPT(open circuit 213 VT/GN). Hey, I thought this guy said it was a sensor in the passenger seat...whatever!
11:28am updated Deysha. Told her that audio shop installation technician and a service technician (Platte City, MO) were going to pair up and trouble shoot by tracing wires for both the audio system and the Passenger Protection System.
1:30pm all parties gather at Thoroughbred Ford (Platte City) and the pop-corn eating begins (along with a visit to the parts department for some necessities).
4pm. Service department team member reports that the non-OEM audio system, including its installation, has been ruled out as the cause of the open circuit (Verified by NW Audio installation technician, Thoroughbred Ford service technician, and a Ford Service Representative).
The bad news is everyone is still trouble shooting by hand tracing and testing.4:45pm. Service department team member asks for my drivers license and proof of insurance. It is explained to me that work has progressed, but still cannot find the cause. Oh, boy. I get a loaner vehicle to take home...OMG...a #@*! Focus...WTF!!!
At least its airbag system is working and it has Sync and the factory sound system the Mustang should have been built with.5:15pm. Arrive safely in Leavenworth, but miffed at the local dealership. While reading emails discovered one from the local dealership saying "Here to serve you" and ending up writing a heart felt disappointment letter to the HMFIC of the service department.
Have you driven a Ford lately?!
Last edited by Tale of Two 'stangs; 10/29/14 at 09:52 AM. Reason: clarifying verbage
10/27/14, 11:09 PM
#36
Legacy TMS Member
Man, after I read open circuit from the audio system, I was about to be like "see??? I told you it was possible!!" And then I kept reading lol...
So, still no answer?
So, still no answer?
10/28/14, 10:22 AM
#38
V6 Member
Thread Starter
I did understand your position and even consider you input constructive, that is why I reached out to iDatalink/Kenwood and communicated with their representative on the forum. Additionally, all the information was forwarded to the audio shop and, in turn, they have triple checked everything and worked with the Ford dealership to make this right. Now the results are in that the audio system is not the source of the defect.
Almost afternoon here, and the Focus with the functional airbag system, awesome audio, great gas mileage, and zero smiles per gallon is fast sitting in the driveway. I will call shortly for an update, but I suspect this is not some easy task...it could be anywhere in the wiring harness.
I am not sure there is a bad sensor. It seems a wire lost its integrity leaving an open circuit. All of the wiring harness has to be traced and tested. I feel bad for the service technician, as I am sure he is going crazy after tracing and testing the whole vehicle three or four times and not finding it. I will update later tonight.
Last edited by Tale of Two 'stangs; 10/28/14 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Right word, wrong spelling.
10/28/14, 10:29 AM
#39
Legacy TMS Member
I did understand your position and even consider you input constructive, that is why I reached out to iDatalink/Kenwood and communicated with their representative on the forum. Additionally, all the information was forwarded to the audio shop and, in turn, they have triple checked everything and worked with the Ford dealership to make this right. Now the results are in that the audio system is not the source of the defect. Almost afternoon here, and the Focus with the functional airbag system, awesome audio, great gas mileage, and zero smiles per gallon is fast sitting in the driveway. I will call shortly for an update, but I suspect this is not some easy task...it could be anywhere in the wiring harness. I am not sure there is a bad sensor. It seems a wire lost its integrity leaving an open circuit. All of the wiring harness has to be traced and tested. I feel bad for the service technician, as I am sure he is going crazy after tracing and testing the whole vehicle three or four times and not finding it. I will update later tonight.
10/28/14, 08:01 PM
#40
V6 Member
Thread Starter
Repair Under Warranty...FIXED!
Thank you all who followed this thread for your support and constructive advice!
For those who are interested, I will quote the invoice: "Customer states that airbag warning light is on. Verified concern. Retrieved DTC's-B0090 hardfault. Ran Oasis-nothing for concern. Performed pinpoint test J. Found circuit VR213 (VT/GN) open between RCM and front crash sensor. Disconnected C219. Measured resistance of circuit VR213 to RCM connector-.02 Ohms, measured resistance from C219 to front crash sensor-open circuit. Requested hotline assistance. R&R right front inner fender to inspect harness-no visual damage. Started untaping harness to inspect further & found VR213 broken is [at] grommet where harness runs through firewall to inside vehicle. Repair (VT/GN) wire".
Thank you Thoroughbred Ford of Platte City, Deysha, iDatalink/Kenwood, and NW Audio of Platte City.
For those who are interested, I will quote the invoice: "Customer states that airbag warning light is on. Verified concern. Retrieved DTC's-B0090 hardfault. Ran Oasis-nothing for concern. Performed pinpoint test J. Found circuit VR213 (VT/GN) open between RCM and front crash sensor. Disconnected C219. Measured resistance of circuit VR213 to RCM connector-.02 Ohms, measured resistance from C219 to front crash sensor-open circuit. Requested hotline assistance. R&R right front inner fender to inspect harness-no visual damage. Started untaping harness to inspect further & found VR213 broken is [at] grommet where harness runs through firewall to inside vehicle. Repair (VT/GN) wire".
Thank you Thoroughbred Ford of Platte City, Deysha, iDatalink/Kenwood, and NW Audio of Platte City.
Last edited by Tale of Two 'stangs; 10/29/14 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Too tired to encode properly...lol. Clarifying verbage.