2014 5.0 tick - engine being ripped apart
Bullitt Member
Joined: August 21, 2013
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: New England
Hi good friends, I have some updates. The motor is running pretty well. However, I have some intermittent issues with it. I'll explain. I can cold start the car, startups normally, no issues. However, from about 145 degrees on up to about 200 degrees cylinder head temp, the engine about 4-5 times will have what sounds like a miss fire/back fire in one cylinder during the time it takes to go from that 145-200 degree. I also get a pretty pronounced intermittent rumbling/vibrating feeling in the car while it's sitting there warming up. When it warms up, it smooths out pretty well but you can tell there's a hint of the previous behaviors that happen during warm up. Also, the 2-1 downshifting didn't take long to come back. It's a fairly pronounced mechanical sounds and a pretty good feeling in the car, like a crunching sound. I explained all this to the dealer that overhauled the engine and they have refused me service. They won't even listen to the car with me. They told me to go back to the selling dealer. It seems they forgot that I'm at their dealer because the selling dealer sent me away telling me the engine knock was normal. So now, I have no dealerships to help me. 1. Selling dealer won't help me at all 2. My home town dealer will chew me out if I even drive by there 3. The dealer that repaired my engine knock won't help me any further 4. Going to a new dealer won't help because I'm sure they tell me, 'go back to the dealer that did the overhaul'. They will probably laugh at me too, wouldn't be surprised. 5. The CSMs won't respond to me anymore. It feels like a personal attack but I haven't myself produced any actions to warrant a personal attack back to myself. I've brought my technical understanding of the cars to each dealer with a professional attitude, yet, they won't help me. What's going on? They also never understand or consider the fact that I have experience with these cars. I even tell them that I'm bringing them my issues because of my experienc of owning these 5.0s. I know these cars very well. I know what they are, what they aren't. I know their normal qwerks and how they are supposed to operate and how they're not supposed to operate. Their response is 'every car is different'. Well that's exactly why I'm there talking to them, I know when there's a normal difference between a car and when the car has an issue. For example, some of these cars have a whine noise during warm up that goes away once warmed up. Some 5.0s I've owned don't have that issue. I write those issues off because the noise goes away and the car is fine. I don't report that to the dealers because I know it's not an issue. It's a normal difference between cars of the same model. I've been driving them since the 5.0 came out! I've contacted Ford on Twitter. One fellow has responded to me there and is seeing what he can do. Do any of you guys have a misfire/back fire kind of feeling during warm-up? 145-200 degrees? My car didn't do it before the overhaul.
legacy Tms Member
Joined: October 9, 2005
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 77
From: N.E. Ohio
Hi good friends,
I have some updates.
The motor is running pretty well. However, I have some intermittent issues with it. I'll explain. I can cold start the car, startups normally, no issues. However, from about 145 degrees on up to about 200 degrees cylinder head temp, the engine about 4-5 times will have what sounds like a miss fire/back fire in one cylinder during the time it takes to go from that 145-200 degree. I also get a pretty pronounced intermittent rumbling/vibrating feeling in the car while it's sitting there warming up. When it warms up, it smooths out pretty well but you can tell there's a hint of the previous behaviors that happen during warm up.
Also, the 2-1 downshifting didn't take long to come back. It's a fairly pronounced mechanical sounds and a pretty good feeling in the car, like a crunching sound.
I explained all this to the dealer that overhauled the engine and they have refused me service. They won't even listen to the car with me. They told me to go back to the selling dealer. It seems they forgot that I'm at their dealer because the selling dealer sent me away telling me the engine knock was normal.
So now, I have no dealerships to help me.
1. Selling dealer won't help me at all
2. My home town dealer will chew me out if I even drive by there
3. The dealer that repaired my engine knock won't help me any further
4. Going to a new dealer won't help because I'm sure they tell me, 'go back to the dealer that did the overhaul'. They will probably laugh at me too, wouldn't be surprised.
5. The CSMs won't respond to me anymore.
It feels like a personal attack but I haven't myself produced any actions to warrant a personal attack back to myself. I've brought my technical understanding of the cars to each dealer with a professional attitude, yet, they won't help me. What's going on? They also never understand or consider the fact that I have experience with these cars. I even tell them that I'm bringing them my issues because of my experienc of owning these 5.0s. I know these cars very well. I know what they are, what they aren't. I know their normal qwerks and how they are supposed to operate and how they're not supposed to operate. Their response is 'every car is different'. Well that's exactly why I'm there talking to them, I know when there's a normal difference between a car and when the car has an issue. For example, some of these cars have a whine noise during warm up that goes away once warmed up. Some 5.0s I've owned don't have that issue. I write those issues off because the noise goes away and the car is fine. I don't report that to the dealers because I know it's not an issue. It's a normal difference between cars of the same model. I've been driving them since the 5.0 came out!
I've contacted Ford on Twitter. One fellow has responded to me there and is seeing what he can do.
Do any of you guys have a misfire/back fire kind of feeling during warm-up? 145-200 degrees? My car didn't do it before the overhaul.
I have some updates.
The motor is running pretty well. However, I have some intermittent issues with it. I'll explain. I can cold start the car, startups normally, no issues. However, from about 145 degrees on up to about 200 degrees cylinder head temp, the engine about 4-5 times will have what sounds like a miss fire/back fire in one cylinder during the time it takes to go from that 145-200 degree. I also get a pretty pronounced intermittent rumbling/vibrating feeling in the car while it's sitting there warming up. When it warms up, it smooths out pretty well but you can tell there's a hint of the previous behaviors that happen during warm up.
Also, the 2-1 downshifting didn't take long to come back. It's a fairly pronounced mechanical sounds and a pretty good feeling in the car, like a crunching sound.
I explained all this to the dealer that overhauled the engine and they have refused me service. They won't even listen to the car with me. They told me to go back to the selling dealer. It seems they forgot that I'm at their dealer because the selling dealer sent me away telling me the engine knock was normal.
So now, I have no dealerships to help me.
1. Selling dealer won't help me at all
2. My home town dealer will chew me out if I even drive by there
3. The dealer that repaired my engine knock won't help me any further
4. Going to a new dealer won't help because I'm sure they tell me, 'go back to the dealer that did the overhaul'. They will probably laugh at me too, wouldn't be surprised.
5. The CSMs won't respond to me anymore.
It feels like a personal attack but I haven't myself produced any actions to warrant a personal attack back to myself. I've brought my technical understanding of the cars to each dealer with a professional attitude, yet, they won't help me. What's going on? They also never understand or consider the fact that I have experience with these cars. I even tell them that I'm bringing them my issues because of my experienc of owning these 5.0s. I know these cars very well. I know what they are, what they aren't. I know their normal qwerks and how they are supposed to operate and how they're not supposed to operate. Their response is 'every car is different'. Well that's exactly why I'm there talking to them, I know when there's a normal difference between a car and when the car has an issue. For example, some of these cars have a whine noise during warm up that goes away once warmed up. Some 5.0s I've owned don't have that issue. I write those issues off because the noise goes away and the car is fine. I don't report that to the dealers because I know it's not an issue. It's a normal difference between cars of the same model. I've been driving them since the 5.0 came out!
I've contacted Ford on Twitter. One fellow has responded to me there and is seeing what he can do.
Do any of you guys have a misfire/back fire kind of feeling during warm-up? 145-200 degrees? My car didn't do it before the overhaul.
maybe the crank trigger timing needs 'relearned', it can really screw things up.
sure theres a section of highway in your area with a long enough off ramp to safely/legally do it... be sure its not a potholed one- more on that later...unhook negative battery cable for a while, flip the headlights on or something to bleed out any residual voltage for a few seconds, hook the battery back up, go for a drive on the highway, just cruise at 65 for a few minutes or however long to get to a long exit... as the exit approaches, dont brake or hit the clutch, just lift completely off the gas and coast down to below 40. done.
somehow when the thing gets cleared the thing needs to 'learn' the exact feedback variations in that starwheel that feeds the crank position sensor, the way it does it is with the engine being pushed while coasting down, its not producing power, no torsional vibration
it reads the 'teeth' at incredibly high speed to 'learn' the machining variations to incredible accuracy... our engines use these to detect cylinder misfire by reading the microscopic twisting that occurs to the crankshaft every single time a cylinder fires- pretty freaking cool its even possible. while coastng down at a nice smooth/no power deceleration, the computer kinda zooms in automatically to 'map' the feedback from that starwheel- it probably has a few thousandths of a inch runout and tooth form variation after pressing onto the crank, those tiny variations might be more than the worst case misfire, so it needs to know exactly how the sensor sees the crank while spinning with no firing going on...
back to the no potholes: this is how i found out about it. my battery died one winter, come springtimes first drive, new battery, drove backroads taking kids to school, then to work... Saturday, took the highway to work...first time over 50mph on that battery, so my crank was running default map, wasnt running great, just figured when i burned some gas it would clear up at next fillup...anyway, work's driveway is RIGHT at the end of a long offramp. I coast down from about 65 to maybe 35, road rough as hell, typical ohio road damage from winter, as I turn into works parking lot it stalls for the first time ever? I get it started/shaking, I really thought maybe the bumps knocked a plug off or something, it would barely run... call the wife to get me after work, I get my code reader to see WTF, several misfire codes? all the wirings ok, clearing codes dont help anything at all... a buddy is like unhook the battery to reset it- in my infinite wisdom, "I just cleared the codes, they come back, its something else..." to humor him, I unhook the battery, turn the key it purrs like a kitten...boy did i feel stupid.
still ran a tad rough, but ok... I start reading... cant find right now, but I posted a link to the procedure ford uses to relearn the crank trigger to correct misfire detection, talk to a few ford guys...concensus was, IF you clear all by unhooking battery, it WILL automatically relearn the sensor(think up to first three cycles) at first coast down from >60 to <40mph, wthout brakes applied, with car in gear/clutch engaged... however if it happens to occur on a bumpy road, the bouncing of the crankshaft/axial play from thrust bearing clearance can let crank shift around enough that it learns a impossibly bad map, and cant even run on it...
I hop on the highway, coast down one freaking time, all the power is back, smooth as silk, everythings fixed...that was several years ago, but still kinda wows me to this day, the level of sophistication in these engine controls- Ford/Motorola REALLY did their homework, way more crap going on than most would think
as easy as it is to check out, why not... if traffic is light and coastdown is easily repeated, why not do it the three times intentionally/optimally and get it set in stone again till next time battery removed- that way it dont try to relearn/finetune itself on a bumpy road and average noise into its memory... I was told it does it first three decelerations, and averages at 2nd/3rd to get its best resolution...all three on a smooth road would be best
still blows my mind the sub-millisecond variations between tooth pulses can be measured accurately enough to detect even one missed spark- but it filters for several in a row to allow for potholes I guess
good luck-
tim
Last edited by ford4v429; Mar 20, 2015 at 05:25 PM.
legacy Tms Member
Joined: October 9, 2005
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 77
From: N.E. Ohio
think I mixed up posts thought there was a battery swap/disconnect in there- oops, didnt realize it started with a oil change...
if the oil change started it, I'd be looking for something left undone under the hood- perhaps they looked at the air filter? filters in these cars are super easy to put in wrong, theyll slip off the lip of the airbox and bleed air around where the gasket is supposed to seal- or folks miss one of the lower tabs leaving a gap in a corner...aside from sucking dirt, it causes a little swirling of the airflow that isnt normally there, confuses the MAF...have 'fixed' a couple fords that had nothing wrong but a slipped air filter...it causes MAF readings to be off, makes engine run rough or just die at some throttle settings...
anything else that coulda been a issue at the oil change- stupid stuff like left the fill cap off (causes PCV issues) or mistakes like that... look for simple mistakes first...if it was a dealer service, hopefully they didnt give it a Ferris Buehler type test drive...
on the timing map, might still give it a shot, aside from losing radio presets, shouldnt hurt anything... but it should be fine unless it was always bad or battery died... dunno...
good luck with it
tim
if the oil change started it, I'd be looking for something left undone under the hood- perhaps they looked at the air filter? filters in these cars are super easy to put in wrong, theyll slip off the lip of the airbox and bleed air around where the gasket is supposed to seal- or folks miss one of the lower tabs leaving a gap in a corner...aside from sucking dirt, it causes a little swirling of the airflow that isnt normally there, confuses the MAF...have 'fixed' a couple fords that had nothing wrong but a slipped air filter...it causes MAF readings to be off, makes engine run rough or just die at some throttle settings...
anything else that coulda been a issue at the oil change- stupid stuff like left the fill cap off (causes PCV issues) or mistakes like that... look for simple mistakes first...if it was a dealer service, hopefully they didnt give it a Ferris Buehler type test drive...
on the timing map, might still give it a shot, aside from losing radio presets, shouldnt hurt anything... but it should be fine unless it was always bad or battery died... dunno...
good luck with it
tim
Last edited by ford4v429; Mar 22, 2015 at 11:39 AM.
legacy Tms Member
Joined: October 9, 2005
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 77
From: N.E. Ohio
skip to 18:05...this is why i think its an oil issue..im no mechanic
DIY Oil Change for 2011- Present Ford Mustang GT - YouTube
DIY Oil Change for 2011- Present Ford Mustang GT - YouTube
Last edited by ford4v429; Mar 22, 2015 at 11:53 AM.
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