Ghost Camshafts???
6/13/14, 08:17 PM
#1
V6 Member
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Ghost Camshafts???
I am sure everyone knows about Ghost Camshaft Tunes that use the ti-vct technology to create a rough idle, this on the other hand is in reference to a physical camshaft that is labeled a "Ghost Camshaft". Now I was talking with a buddy of mine that works at a local shop about the camshafts offered for the V6. The information he was giving me (which was from a co-worker that to my understanding has experience with custom cams) was the cams offered currently are "Ghost Camshafts" meaning they are not true aftermarket cams but stock cam shafts ground down to provide a different lobe profile. I asked for a further explanation and he mentioned (which is obvious) when grinding stock cams you can't actually enlarge the lobes like on a custom made shaft created from a block of metal.
This sounds logical in my mind, but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on this and how it actually effects performance in these "Ghost Camshafts" vs true "Aftermarket Camshafts"?
This sounds logical in my mind, but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on this and how it actually effects performance in these "Ghost Camshafts" vs true "Aftermarket Camshafts"?
6/13/14, 08:51 PM
#2
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Never heard of it, but it doesn't sound ideal at all...
The fact that someone actually called it a ghost camshaft makes it sound like a joke, or they just didn't have a clue what they were talking about.
The fact that someone actually called it a ghost camshaft makes it sound like a joke, or they just didn't have a clue what they were talking about.
6/13/14, 10:26 PM
#3
V6 Member
Thread Starter
I am thinking about talking with the guy that makes the V6 camshafts (only one I know of) again on the phone. First time I talked to him he sounded quite knowledgeable, and answered all my questions about aftermarket cams and retaining ti-vct (some lock it out), adjustable phasers etc.
6/13/14, 10:49 PM
#5
V6 Member
Thread Starter
Here is a link to the info on the cams:
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_...atrev1Cams.pdf
Am I missing something or is it accurate to say those will make a performance gain? Maybe it won't be as big as true aftermarket cams but its better than nothing right?
6/13/14, 11:19 PM
#6
Bullitt Member
My old man is buddies with the people at Clay Smith Cams, who are some of the most sod after can grinders around, and I was told that "Ghost Cams" just change the lobe separation. Obviously, as you said, you can't grind the stock cams for more lift or duration.
I'm unsure the stock lift and duration of the 3.7, but if the cams you linked are higher, then I see a benefit.
I'm unsure the stock lift and duration of the 3.7, but if the cams you linked are higher, then I see a benefit.
6/13/14, 11:36 PM
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I know Ghost Cam Tunes don't provide any performance gains, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around a physical Ghost Cam.... If you are grinding down a cam to change the duration but it doesn't have any added performance what is the point? If you just want the sound get a Ghost Cam Tune and be done with it....
Here is a link to the info on the cams:
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_...atrev1Cams.pdf
Am I missing something or is it accurate to say those will make a performance gain? Maybe it won't be as big as true aftermarket cams but its better than nothing right?
Here is a link to the info on the cams:
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_...atrev1Cams.pdf
Am I missing something or is it accurate to say those will make a performance gain? Maybe it won't be as big as true aftermarket cams but its better than nothing right?
My old man is buddies with the people at Clay Smith Cams, who are some of the most sod after can grinders around, and I was told that "Ghost Cams" just change the lobe separation. Obviously, as you said, you can't grind the stock cams for more lift or duration.
I'm unsure the stock lift and duration of the 3.7, but if the cams you linked are higher, then I see a benefit.
I'm unsure the stock lift and duration of the 3.7, but if the cams you linked are higher, then I see a benefit.
6/14/14, 01:17 AM
#8
Bullitt Member
Anyway, if you're planning on staying N/A, it'd be best to go get customs cams. I'm sure you already knew that
Last edited by KushBandit; 6/14/14 at 01:35 AM.
6/14/14, 09:04 AM
#10
V6 Member
Thread Starter
What I am gathering is the following:
Ghost Camshafts: Camshafts ground down to change lobe separation, which doesn't add any performance but adds a loping idle. With current technology the same effect can be accomplished through ti-vct with a Ghost Cam Tune.
Modified Stock Camshaft for Performance: Camshafts where the base circle has been reduced and camshaft is dropped closer to tappet/lifter to achieve performance gains. Correct cam-to-tappet clearance must be set including the changing of tappets and lash caps plus higher rate springs.
Aftermarket Performance Camshafts: Newly ground camshafts starting with a block of steel, performance is gained without having to drop the camshafts lower because you are starting with larger lobes. More of a drop in modification that sometimes may not even require new springs (or so I have read at least).
If my understanding is accurate it sounds like my friend had part of his information correct of what a "Ghost Camshaft" is but the Super Six Motorsports Cams aren't Ghost Camshafts. Until recently I had never heard of physical Ghost Camshafts but only Ghost Cam Tunes so at first it left me puzzled
. But it would make sense that the concept of the Ghost Cam Tune would be derived from the concept of physical Ghost Camshafts, they both achieve the same thing.
I haven't found a local shop (yet) that will grind me a custom set of cams, but from pricing estimates I have heard it seems like if I go custom cams or these Super Six ones in the end it will be in the same ball park $$$ wise. If I can find a good local shop to make me a set of cams in the same price range I will definitely go that route.
Ghost Camshafts: Camshafts ground down to change lobe separation, which doesn't add any performance but adds a loping idle. With current technology the same effect can be accomplished through ti-vct with a Ghost Cam Tune.
Modified Stock Camshaft for Performance: Camshafts where the base circle has been reduced and camshaft is dropped closer to tappet/lifter to achieve performance gains. Correct cam-to-tappet clearance must be set including the changing of tappets and lash caps plus higher rate springs.
Aftermarket Performance Camshafts: Newly ground camshafts starting with a block of steel, performance is gained without having to drop the camshafts lower because you are starting with larger lobes. More of a drop in modification that sometimes may not even require new springs (or so I have read at least).
If my understanding is accurate it sounds like my friend had part of his information correct of what a "Ghost Camshaft" is but the Super Six Motorsports Cams aren't Ghost Camshafts. Until recently I had never heard of physical Ghost Camshafts but only Ghost Cam Tunes so at first it left me puzzled
. But it would make sense that the concept of the Ghost Cam Tune would be derived from the concept of physical Ghost Camshafts, they both achieve the same thing.I haven't found a local shop (yet) that will grind me a custom set of cams, but from pricing estimates I have heard it seems like if I go custom cams or these Super Six ones in the end it will be in the same ball park $$$ wise. If I can find a good local shop to make me a set of cams in the same price range I will definitely go that route.
Last edited by DRaider90; 6/14/14 at 09:06 AM.
6/14/14, 12:14 PM
#11
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Pricing:
$1075 per set with customer supplied core exchange or with $400 refundable core fee.
$1475 per set purchased outright using new cam cores.
I smell snake oil.
Why not just buy a set of cams in the first place?
$1075 per set with customer supplied core exchange or with $400 refundable core fee.
$1475 per set purchased outright using new cam cores.
I smell snake oil.
Why not just buy a set of cams in the first place?
Last edited by cdynaco; 6/14/14 at 12:18 PM.
6/14/14, 07:58 PM
#12
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Agreed. Most likely...you waste over a grand on the same cams that you already have.
Best case...you buy custom cams that are actually custom, and not just your stock cams.
Ideal scenario...you put that money towards forced induction, since any other V6 mods over $200 are a complete waste of time...
Best case...you buy custom cams that are actually custom, and not just your stock cams.
Ideal scenario...you put that money towards forced induction, since any other V6 mods over $200 are a complete waste of time...
6/14/14, 11:12 PM
#13
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theres really not much if any performance gain in aftermarket cams if you n/a. the stock cams are great lift wise if youre staying n/a and you can change the lobe separation with the tune so theres not much of a gain. i do realize that theres more difference in stock and aftermarket cams than just lift and separation like lobe angle, duration, and overlap but you wouldnt gain but about the same hp as a tune and intake. with ti-vct you can have a lot of lift and still have decent low end due to being able to have a different valve overlap at low rpm than at higher rpm.
6/15/14, 01:38 AM
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theres really not much if any performance gain in aftermarket cams if you n/a. the stock cams are great lift wise if youre staying n/a and you can change the lobe separation with the tune so theres not much of a gain. i do realize that theres more difference in stock and aftermarket cams than just lift and separation like lobe angle, duration, and overlap but you wouldnt gain but about the same hp as a tune and intake. with ti-vct you can have a lot of lift and still have decent low end due to being able to have a different valve overlap at low rpm than at higher rpm.
TiVCT does not increase lift. The valves will only open so far based on that stock cam.
Performance cams, along with improvements in ports, intake, and exhaust; definitely increase hp due to better breathing. And definitely beyond what factory TiVCT can do. Plus a good tuner can program the TiVCT to extend the gains of performance cams.
6/15/14, 02:22 PM
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This entire thread is full of whack.
TiVCT does not increase lift. The valves will only open so far based on that stock cam.
Performance cams, along with improvements in ports, intake, and exhaust; definitely increase hp due to better breathing. And definitely beyond what factory TiVCT can do. Plus a good tuner can program the TiVCT to extend the gains of performance cams.
TiVCT does not increase lift. The valves will only open so far based on that stock cam.
Performance cams, along with improvements in ports, intake, and exhaust; definitely increase hp due to better breathing. And definitely beyond what factory TiVCT can do. Plus a good tuner can program the TiVCT to extend the gains of performance cams.
6/15/14, 02:36 PM
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i was saying ti-vct changes valve overlap and makes it so a high lift cam is much more streetable. but a performance cam really only helps in these engines if you are FI. if youre N/A theres not much of a gain at all. the stock intake lift is .385 and exhaust lift is .360. thats a ton of lift. the aftermaket cams have less intake lift and more exhaust which is good for F/I.
6/15/14, 08:31 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
If you could just go online and buy a set of aftermarket 3.7 cams from American Muscle, Ebay, etc that would make life simple (5.0 owners have this luxury). In the scheme of things camshafts are much further down on the mod list (CAI, Tune, TB, etc will come first) , but its about getting as much HP as possible out of the 3.7 before going FI (port and polished heads and intake are an example). And that is if I end up going FI (its fun to dream about turbos and superchargers), there is a novelty about the idea of a NA 3.7 V6 that would be pushing up into the range of the stock HP of a 5.0 Coyote V8.
Or maybe I am crazy, that is a good possibility too.
Down the road when I am ready to upgrade the cams maybe there will be some kind of solid aftermarket solution. But for right now you have the Super Six Motor Sports Reground Stock Cams, and the Custom Ground Cam Option. If possible I will go down the custom route, but we will see what happens.
Or maybe I am crazy, that is a good possibility too.
Down the road when I am ready to upgrade the cams maybe there will be some kind of solid aftermarket solution. But for right now you have the Super Six Motor Sports Reground Stock Cams, and the Custom Ground Cam Option. If possible I will go down the custom route, but we will see what happens.
Last edited by DRaider90; 6/15/14 at 08:33 PM.
6/15/14, 08:39 PM
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If you could just go online and buy a set of aftermarket 3.7 cams from American Muscle, Ebay, etc that would make life simple (5.0 owners have this luxury). In the scheme of things camshafts are much further down on the mod list (CAI, Tune, TB, etc will come first) , but its about getting as much HP as possible out of the 3.7 before going FI (port and polished heads and intake are an example). And that is if I end up going FI (its fun to dream about turbos and superchargers), there is a novelty about the idea of a NA 3.7 V6 that would be pushing up into the range of the stock HP of a 5.0 Coyote V8.
Or maybe I am crazy, that is a good possibility too.
Down the road when I am ready to upgrade the cams maybe there will be some kind of solid aftermarket solution. But for right now you have the Super Six Motor Sports Reground Stock Cams, and the Custom Ground Cam Option. If possible I will go down the custom route, but we will see what happens.
Or maybe I am crazy, that is a good possibility too.
Down the road when I am ready to upgrade the cams maybe there will be some kind of solid aftermarket solution. But for right now you have the Super Six Motor Sports Reground Stock Cams, and the Custom Ground Cam Option. If possible I will go down the custom route, but we will see what happens.