woodzusa

So i know very little about injectors. Quick question regarding upgrading.
If I want to upgrade to 47 lbs for ethanol use can I purchase the Ford 47lb injectors that were for the 2007 to 2010 SVT's? It wouldn't matter would it?

2014GHIGGT

Those injectors would work well. A #47 injector will work with gasoline or E85. How did you determine which injector size you would need?

woodzusa

Just read some other forums about upgrading to a 47lb injector and that is what is listed over at VMP tuning for their 85 tune kit option.

I was curious though, do you or anyone else know if those are a direct fit from a 2010 SVT to a 2014 5.0? It looks like they are the same style the EV14 but I didn't know if there was anything else I need to look out for to make sure they fit.

2014GHIGGT

They will fit with no issues. I am curious. Why do you want to run E85? Are you going to turn your car into a dyno queen?

slostang

Lmao a dyno queen? I can see you are clueless to the topic. I guess outlaw 10.5 cars are dyno queens?


And I believe they need a spacer to make them work, but not 100% sure.

2014GHIGGT

Sorry man. Dyno Queen wasn't meant to be negative. Most of the guys in my club that hold the dyno records are running E85. Albeit the guys running E85 that have huge dyno numbers, while still running some amazing times at the track, are not the quickest. So I am not clueless I just don't see many E85 cars in my club taking the prize.


I have nothing against E85. I just know it takes a boat load more fuel, although you can run more ignition advance. It has it's advantages it's just tough to tune and keep up with. IMO.


I never asked. Are you running a forced induction setup?

joey8

That's because with E85 you can run more boost and more timing safely because of the higher octane. I run a can of torco on track days for some extra protection against detonation

woodzusa

It isn't FI yet. In my area , e85 availability is greater than 93. I figured for the cost of injectors and a tune , the 20 to 30 hp increase wouldn't be too shabby.

woodzusa

You may be right. I checked on the Ford racing site and it talked about length but it said nothing about applications other than the 2007 to 2010 gt500. But it shows them as EV 14 with the same impedance as the 5.0. Guess I'll just buy them and see.

2014GHIGGT

Uhm didn't I say that? I thought I mentioned something about more ignition advance. Just sayin'. :-)

slostang

Yea, the spacers are like less then $10 so I would have no worries.

And I think E85 is a great option if your area has it. I can't find a flaw in E85. And if the cars are E85 are making the most power but slower times then lower powered 93 octane cars that has NOTHING to due with fuel and more about the people in the seat.


A equal car, same day we dialed in 93 and E85 and from FUEL ALONE(same night and driver) the car picked up 3mph and .2 just from E85.

2014GHIGGT

There are a number of reasons for the MPH and time difference other than fuel. E85 requires 45% more fuel. Sure it's less expensive than 93 octane but you are almost using twice as much of it. With the cost of the fuel system upgrades necessary it doesn't excite me. It does have a much higher octane rating thus allowing for a cooler burn and more ignition timing. I am just not certain if the juice is worth the squeeze. IMO. There will be a number of people to disagree with this and that's cool. I would suspect the folks runing E85 will disagree. :-)

BadHabit2Break

OP - You want the LU47 ones. I just sold a set as I found a set of ID725's.

slostang

Please, fill me in.

Same car, same night, same driver, tune and fuel changed...nothing more.

You aren't teaching me anything here, I am aware of how E85 works. And what fuel system? It's injectors....hardly a fuel system. So $250 for injectors, $250 for a tune....$500 for roughly 30rwhp. People spend that on manifolds, TB's, CAI's and you don't say "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" do you? If so should we all just drive stock cars? I have yet to hear any facts other then reading between the lines that you are uneducated on E85 and don't like it, correct?

woodzusa

Correct for the pricing. 225 is for injectors and depending if you go with AED Lund or VMP for the tune it will be 350 down to 125. So 350 for 20 plus hp to the wheels. Again, not too shabby.

woodzusa

Big thanks. ..

2014GHIGGT

I am not trying to teach you anything. I am just having a discussion. Again I have no idea why you are so combative. I have said nothing derrogatory other than layer in opinion.

That said, I don't believe you know much about fuel systems. There, now I have said something derrogatory. It's more than just injectors to do it right. There is a relationship between volume, pressure, and velocity. I could get into the discussion regarding fuel pump capacity, the I.D. of the fuel lines, etc. but I am not certain you would understand all of that. That's twice now I have said something derrogatory. Just in case you lost count. :-)

I am a mechanical engineer, an ASE certified Master Tech as well, oh yeah and I have also been affiliated to factory sponsored drag racing teams off and on for over 25 years. I do not come on these boards to put anyone down like you did me. Remember you acted like a child first. I also don't believe you are really ready to match wit with me let alone knowledge of fuel systems. I don't mind E85. I just do not believe it makes much sense for a daily driven street machine. I'll give you an opportunity to teach me something.

How much fuel will the factory fuel lines and fuel rails flow at 50 PSI?

What is your methodology you use to determine what size fuel pump is required to support "X" power?

What is your methodology used to determine what size fuel lines and rails are required to support "X" power?

Walk me thorugh this and show me how much you can impress me and the others reading this thread because it is obvious I need some schooling from you. ;-)

slostang

Oh man....


Ok, awesome that you have a great wealth of knowledge to offer, I am 24 so you have been in the business a year longer then I have been alive, I hope to the heavens you know more then me.


I work for a water department, I bet I could teach you things with in here, but that wasn't the question asked and you have never done it as a profession.


I never lead anyone to believe I knew these complex equations you have presented. I said that you ONLY need injectors(and a tune, obvious) to make the E85 work in the application, show me that this is wrong.


I know enough about fuel systems, I can(and have on several cars) from intank to sump, full returns and blah blah that will bore you as I am just as sure you have.


I could break math out, but E85 works out to be about the same(pennies) over 93.


In the never ending pursuit of horsepower, can you explain why E85 is a bad idea(from the bank) to the minions such as us, as nobody here but you has built a 1000hp car or a 8 second mustang, obviously(sarcasm).


I would like you to answer my question as to what variables played a factor in back to back runs with nothing but fuel changing picked up ET and MPH....because I am at a lose.

2014GHIGGT

Again it was not my intention even from the start to get into a peeing match with anyone. There are formula calculators you can use to right size your injectors. No need to reinvent the wheel there. So you may be correct with injector size. I do know that you need to flow about 45% more E85 and given that information that means the factory fuel system would need to flow a significant amount more fuel than you would running 93. I would be surprised if Ford built that much extra capacity but I have been incorrect in the past. I am not even familiar with the stock size ID of the factor fuel rails and fuel lines. My point is that anyone making a radical change to their fuel susyem should figure all of this out first. Just because others are getting away with running larger injectors doesn't mean it is being done safely. Through my years I have found opinions are like belly buttons. This is not directed toward you. What I mean is there are many followers out there. The folks that go back and do the homework are the ones that typically go faster, build more power and with less problems. I only want what you and anyone else on these boards want. More power.

I have never built a 1,000 HP street machine. My quickest street machine was a 91' notchback that ran 10.48's. I ran #72 injectors, a Weldon fuel pump with an AN12 inlet, an AN10 out, that ran up to a "Y" that had two AN8 out lines that fed each rail independently and had an AN8 return line back to the tank. The AN12 is a 3/4"ID, AN10 is a 5/8" ID and the AN8 is 1/2' ID. That was all done to support about 650HP. What many people also fail to realize is that the fuel system is also fighting the accelertion of the car. Think about how you feel sitting in the seat of your car while accelerating. The fuel in the lines is undergoing the same forces. What most people do not factor in is the compensation for acceleration. You need way more fuel capacity than you realize the faster and faster you go to also overcome these forces.

So E85 is going to demand much more of the fuel system other than the injectors. Maybe the factory pump can easily support the 45% increase and maybe the factory fuel lines and rails are good to go. I would first need to determine the factory pump specs and the ID of the factory fuel lines. Again my point was anyone making a change to E85 had better know this or they risk a serious gamble and just because there are others doing it and getting away with it doesn't mean it is being done properly.

As an FYI - my affiliation with factory sponsored drag racing teams has all been at the motorcycle level. 7-8 second drag bikes. I never said it was cars but the same rules apply.

But back to yoru question. the variables that could have played into the changes in ET and times. Temperature, barometric pressure, track temperature, different lanes, more track compound, etc. There are plenty of variables that could easily make up 2 tenths and 3 MPH that have nothing to do with driver, or vehicle.

Again this is going to be the second time I have apologized to you during this thread. The first time I am not certain why I offended you. The second I did on purpose but it was only to prove a point about not offending you the first time. That was wrong and I am sorry. I just want to help folks that's all. I could care less if you run 93, E85, race gas, etc. I just don't like seeing anyone break **** or blow up, etc. We can all agree it costs us way too much money when that happens and they are expensive lessons to learn.

slostang

I agree here, I am in no way CLOSE to knowing it all, I know a fair amount and know what I can't do. A simple injector swap on the 11+ is all you need for E85, that has been tried and true for almost 4 years now. Some cars with 50,000 plus E85 miles.


I, myself will never run a BAP. A friend lost a BAP at the big and and lost pressure and you know the rest. If it was my build I would do another pump and make it a return system.


But picking up 3mph and 2 tenths is pretty big(DA was -900ish all night) and same left lane. The other things ARE possible but this was on a PD blower car that was heat soaked and still picked that kind of time up. All things being considered the E85 in my opinion is what made the change.


Sorry if I came off rude to you, friend.