New Black Mustang 5.0 Project Car Advice Thread
2/21/11, 04:30 PM
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New Black Mustang 5.0 Project Car Advice Thread
2011 Black GT Premium
Saddle interior
Security package
Stripe delete
6spd manual
3.31
Show'n'Go remote control front plate
This car is way to fast already in my humble opinion. I know there is no such thing as to fast but I am coming from a 2009 Honda Civic Si sedan, which I thought was a pretty darn quick little car considering it was a FWD 37mpg highway econobox. So the stock quickness of my Mustang is PLENTY for me.
What I want to do is make the rest of the car perform as well as the engine does. Here are my main areas of concern:
1. High speed braking in general is pretty weak. I know it was a hell of a lot lighter but my Civic Si could brake from 130 to 70 faster and with MUCH more control under braking than the 5.0 can brake from 110 to 70 (at least according to my butt dyno) let alone from 130+
2. Highway lane changes. I am scared to switch lanes quickly in this car due to things like body lean and such. When I am maneuvering the car at high way speed and I try to brake hard and switch lanes or accelerate hard and switch lanes the car squats or dives and leans so much a feel kind of like I am sitting in an out of control rocking chair. (remember, I am comparing to my Civic, which if nothing else was extremely tight on the road and very nimble)
3. Braking dive and acceleration squat. At first I kind of liked the feeling of the car hunching down in back as I stepped on the gas, but now it is just annoying and frustrating, especially the way the body lurches forward as I let off the gas or brake. The lack of smoothness in the transitions from accelerating, quick lane changes, and moderate to hard braking do not inspire confidence.
__________________________________________________ ______________
SO, what are the best routes for me to take to alleviate the issues?
I love the smoothness and comfort of the car at normal cruising speed and I don't want to sacrifice drivability and livability any more than necessary. This is my daily driver and I do not track it ever.
Clearly the car needs suspension upgrades, but what are my best options?
I really do not want the car to be dropped more than 1.5" (max) under stock height.
And as far as brakes, what is my best choice of equipment that will still allow me to use my stock 18" wheels?
2/21/11, 04:43 PM
#2
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Most of the issues you state aren't actual problems with vehicle dynamics as much as they are just completely different that what you are used to.
Remember that physicals can't be changed. Your new car weighs probably a good 1000 lbs more than you old car and has about double the power. When you hit the throttle, or wrench on the wheel, things happen differently and to a greater degree because of the added power and weight.
If you want traction with big power you have to allow weight to transfer onto the drive wheels. So you get squat in the rear. If you lift off the throttle suddenly, you will then transfer that weight near instantaneously back to the front.
The same goes for braking and steering. There's more mass, so sharp inputs will cause more drastic reactions. Especially considering the level of grip the car has in general.
With this information in hand, my first recommendation isn't for parts, but to change the nut behind the wheel. The mustang isn't a Civic Si. If you attempt to drive it like one, it's not going to be the smoothest vehicle in the world.
Adjusting your driving habits for smooth acceleration and deceleration and smooth operating inputs will solve most of your problems.
From there the first thing I'd look at is a set of shocks. Most mustangs are under-damped a fair amount and dynamics suffer a little. Going with a quality shock and strut combo like a Koni STR.t will help transition and "set" the car during quick maneuvers.
If the car is still soft for your liking, you may consider adding a stiffer set of springs like Steeda Sports or the like.
The brakes you can go in almost any direction. With that factory 18's however you're going to be limited to the stock calipers. My recommendation is to step up to a higher abrasive pad with better initial bite. That should improve braking confidence for you.
Remember that physicals can't be changed. Your new car weighs probably a good 1000 lbs more than you old car and has about double the power. When you hit the throttle, or wrench on the wheel, things happen differently and to a greater degree because of the added power and weight.
If you want traction with big power you have to allow weight to transfer onto the drive wheels. So you get squat in the rear. If you lift off the throttle suddenly, you will then transfer that weight near instantaneously back to the front.
The same goes for braking and steering. There's more mass, so sharp inputs will cause more drastic reactions. Especially considering the level of grip the car has in general.
With this information in hand, my first recommendation isn't for parts, but to change the nut behind the wheel. The mustang isn't a Civic Si. If you attempt to drive it like one, it's not going to be the smoothest vehicle in the world.
Adjusting your driving habits for smooth acceleration and deceleration and smooth operating inputs will solve most of your problems.
From there the first thing I'd look at is a set of shocks. Most mustangs are under-damped a fair amount and dynamics suffer a little. Going with a quality shock and strut combo like a Koni STR.t will help transition and "set" the car during quick maneuvers.
If the car is still soft for your liking, you may consider adding a stiffer set of springs like Steeda Sports or the like.
The brakes you can go in almost any direction. With that factory 18's however you're going to be limited to the stock calipers. My recommendation is to step up to a higher abrasive pad with better initial bite. That should improve braking confidence for you.
2/21/11, 05:03 PM
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Most of the issues you state aren't actual problems with vehicle dynamics as much as they are just completely different that what you are used to.
With this information in hand, my first recommendation isn't for parts, but to change the nut behind the wheel. The mustang isn't a Civic Si. If you attempt to drive it like one, it's not going to be the smoothest vehicle in the world.
Adjusting your driving habits for smooth acceleration and deceleration and smooth operating inputs will solve most of your problems.
With this information in hand, my first recommendation isn't for parts, but to change the nut behind the wheel. The mustang isn't a Civic Si. If you attempt to drive it like one, it's not going to be the smoothest vehicle in the world.
Adjusting your driving habits for smooth acceleration and deceleration and smooth operating inputs will solve most of your problems.
You are definitely right about my driving habits and this is very good advice. I still need to get used to driving a (comparatively) very heavy car that is my new Mustang. I loved the tossability of my Civic and that will be the main thing that is greatly missed about it. Kind of like the way a lot of rich people and race car drivers who own much faster and more powerful cars love daily driving a Mini Cooper S, that's the way I was with my Civic Si. (not that I am rich just using it as an example)
Now I don't want people to think that I made this thread to complain about my crappy new Ford and hype up my old Honda. Quite the contrary I ABSOLUTELY LOVE my new Mustang. This is however my first ever "muscle car" and certainly my first ever Ford. I am just hoping to see some other examples of people who have already done what I am looking to do and copy them.
When it comes to modding my car I like doing what others have already tried and tested so I know that it will work, as opposed to experimenting on my own and possibly failing. I do not have the time, skill, or wallet for repeatedly experimenting with different aftermarket parts.
Thanks guys I really appreciate any help you can offer!
2/21/11, 05:50 PM
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First of all, to me it sounds like you're doing some really out-of-control street driving. I noticed the term "highway" used, and you mentioned you will never track the car. So yeah, I'm curious why you are doing high speed / high G lane changes, as that's pretty stupid.
Getting off of my high horse though, hit up Sam Strano. A good set of springs with some Koni yellow's will probably solve almost every issue you name, aside from braking performance. Get a set of decent quality brake pads (Hawk HPS work well) and see if that doesn't fix it for you.
Back on the high horse for a second..for someone who isn't tracking the car, though, I have to wonder why you are slamming on the brakes anyways. I imagine you are doing 120+ and suddenly notice a cop? Either learn the area, get a radar detector, or slow down, seriously.
No amount of driving skill will prepare the little old lady in the Kia in front of you for whats coming up next to her at 120 mph. And before you say you're doing this on an open highway, well, you wouldn't have an issue with lane changing and slamming on the brakes if that were true!
Getting off of my high horse though, hit up Sam Strano. A good set of springs with some Koni yellow's will probably solve almost every issue you name, aside from braking performance. Get a set of decent quality brake pads (Hawk HPS work well) and see if that doesn't fix it for you.
Back on the high horse for a second..for someone who isn't tracking the car, though, I have to wonder why you are slamming on the brakes anyways. I imagine you are doing 120+ and suddenly notice a cop? Either learn the area, get a radar detector, or slow down, seriously.
No amount of driving skill will prepare the little old lady in the Kia in front of you for whats coming up next to her at 120 mph. And before you say you're doing this on an open highway, well, you wouldn't have an issue with lane changing and slamming on the brakes if that were true!
2/21/11, 07:15 PM
#6
Super Boss Lawman Member
First of all, to me it sounds like you're doing some really out-of-control street driving. I noticed the term "highway" used, and you mentioned you will never track the car. So yeah, I'm curious why you are doing high speed / high G lane changes, as that's pretty stupid.
Getting off of my high horse though, hit up Sam Strano. A good set of springs with some Koni yellow's will probably solve almost every issue you name, aside from braking performance. Get a set of decent quality brake pads (Hawk HPS work well) and see if that doesn't fix it for you.
Back on the high horse for a second..for someone who isn't tracking the car, though, I have to wonder why you are slamming on the brakes anyways. I imagine you are doing 120+ and suddenly notice a cop? Either learn the area, get a radar detector, or slow down, seriously.
No amount of driving skill will prepare the little old lady in the Kia in front of you for whats coming up next to her at 120 mph. And before you say you're doing this on an open highway, well, you wouldn't have an issue with lane changing and slamming on the brakes if that were true!
Getting off of my high horse though, hit up Sam Strano. A good set of springs with some Koni yellow's will probably solve almost every issue you name, aside from braking performance. Get a set of decent quality brake pads (Hawk HPS work well) and see if that doesn't fix it for you.
Back on the high horse for a second..for someone who isn't tracking the car, though, I have to wonder why you are slamming on the brakes anyways. I imagine you are doing 120+ and suddenly notice a cop? Either learn the area, get a radar detector, or slow down, seriously.
No amount of driving skill will prepare the little old lady in the Kia in front of you for whats coming up next to her at 120 mph. And before you say you're doing this on an open highway, well, you wouldn't have an issue with lane changing and slamming on the brakes if that were true!
2/21/11, 08:23 PM
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First of all, to me it sounds like you're doing some really out-of-control street driving. I noticed the term "highway" used, and you mentioned you will never track the car. So yeah, I'm curious why you are doing high speed / high G lane changes, as that's pretty stupid.
Getting off of my high horse though, hit up Sam Strano. A good set of springs with some Koni yellow's will probably solve almost every issue you name, aside from braking performance. Get a set of decent quality brake pads (Hawk HPS work well) and see if that doesn't fix it for you.
Back on the high horse for a second..for someone who isn't tracking the car, though, I have to wonder why you are slamming on the brakes anyways. I imagine you are doing 120+ and suddenly notice a cop? Either learn the area, get a radar detector, or slow down, seriously.
No amount of driving skill will prepare the little old lady in the Kia in front of you for whats coming up next to her at 120 mph. And before you say you're doing this on an open highway, well, you wouldn't have an issue with lane changing and slamming on the brakes if that were true!
Getting off of my high horse though, hit up Sam Strano. A good set of springs with some Koni yellow's will probably solve almost every issue you name, aside from braking performance. Get a set of decent quality brake pads (Hawk HPS work well) and see if that doesn't fix it for you.
Back on the high horse for a second..for someone who isn't tracking the car, though, I have to wonder why you are slamming on the brakes anyways. I imagine you are doing 120+ and suddenly notice a cop? Either learn the area, get a radar detector, or slow down, seriously.
No amount of driving skill will prepare the little old lady in the Kia in front of you for whats coming up next to her at 120 mph. And before you say you're doing this on an open highway, well, you wouldn't have an issue with lane changing and slamming on the brakes if that were true!
I don't drive like this at all when there are other cars anywhere in sight (and for any mods looking I only do it in Mexico in a computer simulator anyway
) and when I have done a hard brake or lane change it was on purpose so that I will know what to expect from my car if/when the time ever comes that I have to do it under duress. The rest of the time I am very easy on the car and drive with average MPG in mind lol.As for hitting 120 on the highway.. seriously who here can say they never break the speed limit in their Mustang with out having their nose grow about a foot? It's not like I pin it and just set my cruise control at 145 and hope for the best. It's just the occasional empty road where I speed it up and immediately bring it back to the speed limit.
This thread isn't about how to drive or not drive the car it's about telling me what shock/spring/brake upgrades you guys have done and how they have worked/not worked out for you, so I can get a basic idea of what I want to go with.
2/21/11, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Nokternal
I don't drive like this at all when there are other cars anywhere in sight (and for any mods looking I only do it in Mexico in a computer simulator anyway
) and when I have done a hard brake or lane change it was on purpose so that I will know what to expect from my car if/when the time ever comes that I have to do it under duress. The rest of the time I am very easy on the car and drive with average MPG in mind lol.As for hitting 120 on the highway.. seriously who here can say they never break the speed limit in their Mustang with out having their nose grow about a foot? It's not like I pin it and just set my cruise control at 145 and hope for the best. It's just the occasional empty road where I speed it up and immediately bring it back to the speed limit.
This thread isn't about how to drive or not drive the car it's about telling me what shock/spring/brake upgrades you guys have done and how they have worked/not worked out for you, so I can get a basic idea of what I want to go with.
Last edited by Guest123; 2/21/11 at 08:32 PM.
2/21/11, 08:42 PM
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I don't drive like this at all when there are other cars anywhere in sight (and for any mods looking I only do it in Mexico in a computer simulator anyway) and when I have done a hard brake or lane change it was on purpose so that I will know what to expect from my car if/when the time ever comes that I have to do it under duress. The rest of the time I am very easy on the car and drive with average MPG in mind lol.
As for hitting 120 on the highway.. seriously who here can say they never break the speed limit in their Mustang with out having their nose grow about a foot? It's not like I pin it and just set my cruise control at 145 and hope for the best. It's just the occasional empty road where I speed it up and immediately bring it back to the speed limit.
This thread isn't about how to drive or not drive the car it's about telling me what shock/spring/brake upgrades you guys have done and how they have worked/not worked out for you, so I can get a basic idea of what I want to go with.
) and when I have done a hard brake or lane change it was on purpose so that I will know what to expect from my car if/when the time ever comes that I have to do it under duress. The rest of the time I am very easy on the car and drive with average MPG in mind lol.As for hitting 120 on the highway.. seriously who here can say they never break the speed limit in their Mustang with out having their nose grow about a foot? It's not like I pin it and just set my cruise control at 145 and hope for the best. It's just the occasional empty road where I speed it up and immediately bring it back to the speed limit.
This thread isn't about how to drive or not drive the car it's about telling me what shock/spring/brake upgrades you guys have done and how they have worked/not worked out for you, so I can get a basic idea of what I want to go with.
Anyhow - again, contact Sam Strano. He's the suspension man; he's run them all, and knows what is best for each individual situation. Be it a road course, autocross, drag or street/cruising, Sam can tell you what's best, or what is a decent compromise to meet your needs.
I know you mentioned it's your DD, but have some worries about the nose dive and squat. Steeda Ultralites sound like they would be right up your alley, but then, I don't know the whole story.
Just contact him and tell him specifically what you use your car for, and he'll hook you up with what you need, and at the best price if you choose to buy from him.
2/21/11, 09:20 PM
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Sweet sounds good. Thanks for the advice exactly what i was looking for.
BTW Isn't Sam Strano also the name of a really good road course race driver? Is it the same person or am I way off? lol Either way I will look for him on this forum tomorrow night
BTW Isn't Sam Strano also the name of a really good road course race driver? Is it the same person or am I way off? lol Either way I will look for him on this forum tomorrow night
2/21/11, 09:33 PM
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2/21/11, 09:53 PM
#12
Stop braking hard or accelerating hard while turning and changing lanes, that's poor driving practice anyhow.
2/21/11, 10:01 PM
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Aside from how much I want to write a mini-essay disagreeing with that statement;
2/21/11, 10:52 PM
#14
All the suspension parts in the world can't fix bad driving habits.
Anyways, Koni sports and steeda sport springs seem to be the favorite combo on this site.
Anyways, Koni sports and steeda sport springs seem to be the favorite combo on this site.
2/21/11, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 06GT
All the suspension parts in the world can't fix bad driving habits.
Anyways, Koni sports and steeda sport springs seem to be the favorite combo on this site.
Anyways, Koni sports and steeda sport springs seem to be the favorite combo on this site.
2/22/11, 08:08 AM
#16
LOL indeed
2/22/11, 11:19 AM
#19
Shelby GT350 Member
Seems like a good start would be as said before, Strut Brace, Springs and Dampers. I'm not sure how the cars with the 18" wheels handle but from what I have driven both 19" wheel and BBP cars, the Mustang is a lot more nimble then you are giving it credit. The "tossability" in your Si was from the fact that it had a weight well under 3000 lbs. It also has EPAS steering for smooth transition like the Mustang. I think you just need to understand the physics of the car better. The dimensions are completely different and the power comes from a different place and in a much different a manner.
2/22/11, 04:15 PM
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Seems like a good start would be as said before, Strut Brace, Springs and Dampers. I'm not sure how the cars with the 18" wheels handle but from what I have driven both 19" wheel and BBP cars, the Mustang is a lot more nimble then you are giving it credit. The "tossability" in your Si was from the fact that it had a weight well under 3000 lbs. It also has EPAS steering for smooth transition like the Mustang. I think you just need to understand the physics of the car better. The dimensions are completely different and the power comes from a different place and in a much different a manner.