Hey guys, we'll be at Track Masters Dynojet in Huntsville, Al this Saturday starting at 9am, if ANYONE wants to come out and do a before and after dyno with the air intake only just to show you the gains we will cover the dynotime.

If you want we'll stand to the side and let you swap it out and do everything yourself just as you would do it as a customer, or of course if you want us to we will do the install.

IF you don't see a gain with the C&L air intake installed we will pump you a tank full of 93 octane, buy you lunch and thank you for your time.

IF you do see a gain from the installation of the C&L no tune required intake then the debate is settled.

Either way we would want you to post your TRUE results from the testing from that day.

Any takers??

Call Lee at 256-882-6813 or Doug at 205-285-9360

Thanks!!

 

Doug i do believe all the CAI do show hp gains on a dyno but they do not gain you much if anything on the track as some have proven. I seen the Airaid no tune CAI gain 9rwhp on a dyno but gain the person 0 on the track. So is 8-10rwhp worth the $300+ ? To most though the looks and hp bragging rights are well worth it.

 

I am SOLD! I was thinking about this and airaid. I never really liked airaid tho from my Camaro days. I also see that you can order the c&l directly from your website. Now are they in stock for immediate delivery Doug? If so I will order one today

 

Track testing, particularly those who choose to look specifically at elapsed times (E.T.'s) is not a consistent or definitive method to determine horsepower gains. Your elapsed time is directly tied to your 60-foot time and has very little to do with changes in horsepower. Your MPH trap speed is an accurate indicator of rear wheel horsepower versus vehicle weight, but only if your runs are consistent and are not subject to the MANY variables that exist when running a vehicle at the dragstrip. The next time you are at the track, try taking your foot completely off the throttle a good 100 or 200 feet before the finish line. You will find that your E.T. is almost as good as it was during the runs where you kept your foot into the throttle all the way to the finish line, but your MPH will be down a bit. This illustrates that your E.T. is more a function of what takes place near the starting line and does not rely as heavily on horsepower at the top end of the track.

An SAE corrected chassis dyno test is not subject to tire spin, inconsistencies in shifting technique, headwinds, tailwinds, track conditions or temperature and air quality variations that are the result of making passes that are spread apart over larger spans of time. You are measuring the acceleration rate of a given round mass over a period of time. If you have more power, it takes less time to accelerate the mass, and an increase in power is measured and reported. It is Newton's second law of motion: Force = Mass X Acceleration

To rely on track testing for "results" is subjecting yourself to so many variables that are beyond your control. With all things being equal, at the MINIMUM you should see a MPH increase at the dragstrip, regardless of your 60 foot time, when you perform any modification that adds horsepower to the rear wheels.

 

Here is the kicker in all this dyno testing.

I have done much dyno testing of many of my cars over the years, and there is always a faulty test done with CAI's.

The ONLY way to get a TRUE reading from this dyno test and to be FAIR, the dyno runs need to be done with the hood of the car CLOSED. Let me repeat, the hood of the car needs to be CLOSED on a CAI dyno run.

On a stock intake that has a closed box, having the hood open or closed matters none, as the only way the air gets in is through the inlet to the intake.

However, once you swap in a CAI, most dyno people end up leaving the hood up for the dyno runs. This results in a inaccurate result, as the wind from having the hood up is allowing more air into the intake than what would be the case with the hood down.

There is the argument by some that the fans that dynos have often don't produce the same amount of wind you'd have if doing 140 mph on a 4th gear top speed run anyway.
To that, I always say, "then go to a dyno shop that has proper fans."

But to leave the hood up on a dyno run with a CAI is unfairly comparing it to a stock closed box intake that is only getting the wind from the fans through the inlet tube, whereas the CAI is then getting wind from an open hood that it would NOT get when driving on the street.

So my question to C&L is, are you willing to do the same offer to everyone but do the dyno test with your NO-TUNE CAI with the hoods of the cars closed, as it would be when driving on the road?
If so, then I'd be interested in seeing the results. If not, then the dyno results from the CAI with the hood up are artifically inflated when comparing to a stock closed box intake.

 

We performed the exact "hood closed" test that you propose just last weekend on the new 2013 GT500, and our air intake STILL made measurably more HP than the stock assembly with the hood closed. You are correct that closing the hood with the stock air intake will not significantly change the intake air temperatures and that you will most certainly see elevated air intake temperatures with ANY of the aftermarket kits available for these vehicles when you close the hood. Even with the hood closed and the air intake temperatures elevated above that of the stock assembly (which can only receive air through the "fresh air" feed) you will STILL make more HP with our assembly. Having a higher flowing air intake capacity on an engine that can benefit from it, EVEN IF the air charge temperature is increased, you will still receive a performance improvement. We tested and saw this just last weekend. We didn't post the results because we knew that when people saw how LOW the power numbers were with the stock air intake assembly once we closed the hood, n one would have believed us. At full hot temp, it was only able to muster 522 rear wheel hp with the hood closed. With our air intake installed and the hood closed, it made gains that were almost comparable in difference to the "hood up" tests that were performed and reported on our website and here in the forum, even though the IAT level was most certainly higher.

The problem with doing the closed hood testing at Trackmasters, however, lies in the fact that there is absolutely NO WAY for us to simulate going down the road, as the fan capacity at the dyno shop that we will be at is very limited. So, it would be an unfair test on this particular dyno, but our testing from last week on the GT500 confirmed that power was still better even with the hood closed on the vehicle and no significant airflow in front of the vehicle. At least nothing like what you would experience going down the road...

The belief that "hood up" testing is "artificially inflating" numbers is flawed because there is absolutely NO WAY that we would ever be able to re-create the airflow volume across the entire front of the car that would simulate driving down the road at wide open throttle in one of the higher gears.

 

That is good to know, that means their is restriction in the stock air intake on the inlet, and that even with the hood closed the CAI allowed more air to get into the engine from just the air that was being pumped in through the front of the car.

That shop should then invest in high flow fans. There should always be at least one large 4 foot tall or bigger primary fan that blows air into the full front of the car and at least 2-3 of the "snail" type carpet drying fans that can be pointed directly into the grill, the intercooler, and towards the air intake inlet in order to get more high flow air in to replicate as much as possible the amount of air you'd get when doing high speed runs on the street.

This is exactly what I posted in my post above.
However, keep in mind that it is still artificially inflated when compared to a stock closed air box that ALSO does not have the benefit of replicating the amount of air you'd see on the street doing a 4th gear WOT run.
So in order to make it as fair as possible, the CAI runs NEED to have the hood closed. This way BOTH the stock air intake runs and the CAI runs have equal amount of air from the fans going into the intakes, solely from the grill and below, eliminating the "benefit" of the CAI would have by allowing additional air going into it from an open hood.

When I did dyno testing on some other cars, the open hood vs closed hood made a difference of anywhere from 3-7 rwhp depending on which car I was dyno testing during CAI runs vs stock box runs.

Clearly between each run, you need to lift the hood to allow the IAT and the engine to cool.

Often too at the beginning of the dyno run, in 4th at 1800 or so rpms, the fans at a good shop are actually blowing more air into the intake than what you'd really see on the street too, sometimes artificially inflating the low rpm numbers as well.

Ideally a dyno shop would have fans that allow wind speed to vary from 40 mph up to at least 140 mph. And those fans would have variable speed ability that was tied to the dyno run, so at the beginning of the dyno run it would blow 40 mph winds, and as the rpms climb the speed of the wind would rise to a maximum of 140 mph winds at redline.

This is why dynos are never the best for actually seeing performance gains.
Best way is to connect up a VBox and go out on a deserted street.
Set the timing of the VBox to record the times the car takes to go from 40-120 mph. Do 3 stock runs in the same direction in 4th gear, record the times.
Then put in the CAI (or whatever performance mod you are testing) and go back to the exact same road in the exact same area and retest.
The drop in time will represent how much performance you actually gained.

 

So your saying that with a stock air box, dyno numbers would be the same with the hood open or closed?

 

Yes as long as the stock air box is a closed airbox like the 5.0 has.
That is of course unless you do back to back to back runs and IAT and engine temps increase. But again, either way (hood up or down) numbers will drop after "heat soak" sets in, it'll just be more prominent if you leave the hood down and don't let the engine cool for a couple minutes between pulls.