Brembo Mustang Owners- NEW SPRING KIT
Mach 1 Member
Joined: August 1, 2011
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From: Iowa
I can't even finish reading this trash. You're "trying" WAY too "hard" to sound *like* you "know" what you're "talking" about by using *TERRIBLE* "punctuation". Post a before and after with the sun at the same angle showing the dirt on the tire treads in both pics. The pics look the same to me. From what I gather...you lowered only the rear less than an inch, and created the perfect suspension...That about right? Well there's always someone out there that will buy anything...good luck with sale.
Thread Starter
V6 Member
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 70
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From: So-Cal
I can't even finish reading this trash. You're "trying" WAY too "hard" to sound *like* you "know" what you're "talking" about by using *TERRIBLE* "punctuation". Post a before and after with the sun at the same angle showing the dirt on the tire treads in both pics. The pics look the same to me. From what I gather...you lowered only the rear less than an inch, and created the perfect suspension...That about right? Well there's always someone out there that will buy anything...good luck with sale.
"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer
Last edited by Bucephalus; Oct 15, 2011 at 06:38 PM.
Bullitt Member
Joined: October 6, 2011
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I think there is a trouble with terms here. I don't see anything the OP posted that is objectionable perhaps except for it being a sales pitch. Anyway most people equate a stiffer ride with reduced ride quality. Remember america is the land of the giant soft sprung sedan where the goal is to not even notice the poor quality of the road.
A lowered car ultimately has to have stiffer springs. The variable rate makes the ride essentially like stock on smooth roads. So those who live in areas without frost heaves and other issues the ride will essentially be as good as stock. For those of us that do, the reduced ride quality of lowering springs is immediately evident upon going over the first frost heave. Such pavement issues often push the lowering springs far enough into the variable rate that they are rather stiff. Necessary to prevent the suspension from bottoming out.
If I knew how frost heaves felt with mild lowering springs I would have spent the extra money for new stock springs all around on my '97. (when I replaced other suspension components I found the front two springs broken from rust in the control arm seats and even though the rears looked ok I didn't trust them.) At this point, it isn't bad enough to warrant the effort to do all the work. Maybe it will annoy me enough in the future to change it back.
A lowered car ultimately has to have stiffer springs. The variable rate makes the ride essentially like stock on smooth roads. So those who live in areas without frost heaves and other issues the ride will essentially be as good as stock. For those of us that do, the reduced ride quality of lowering springs is immediately evident upon going over the first frost heave. Such pavement issues often push the lowering springs far enough into the variable rate that they are rather stiff. Necessary to prevent the suspension from bottoming out.
If I knew how frost heaves felt with mild lowering springs I would have spent the extra money for new stock springs all around on my '97. (when I replaced other suspension components I found the front two springs broken from rust in the control arm seats and even though the rears looked ok I didn't trust them.) At this point, it isn't bad enough to warrant the effort to do all the work. Maybe it will annoy me enough in the future to change it back.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 8, 2009
Posts: 2,586
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From: Lithia, FL
Additionally, the OP never used the word "extreme" but someone's "feedback" claims he did. if your gonna give "feedback" don't exaggerate what someone states and don't be rude about it
Last edited by MyStang2010GB; Oct 15, 2011 at 07:41 PM.
Shelby GT500 Member
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From: Lithia, FL
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: August 7, 2011
Posts: 5,246
Likes: 567
From: NC
I like the "after" look, with the rear lowered.
I've always thought that the Mustang sits WAY too high in the rear in stock form, not sure why Ford feels the need to do so.
But I have to wonder, couldn't one just buy their choice of lowering springs out there and only install the rear springs?
I haven't looked into the options available, and I'm not sure if there are any that will only lower the car "less than an inch" in the rear, but if there is one, that could be an option, no?
Looks like the Ford Racing P-springs will only lower the rear 1" ... why wouldn't they work?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/p-springs-2011-gt.html
I've always thought that the Mustang sits WAY too high in the rear in stock form, not sure why Ford feels the need to do so.
But I have to wonder, couldn't one just buy their choice of lowering springs out there and only install the rear springs?
I haven't looked into the options available, and I'm not sure if there are any that will only lower the car "less than an inch" in the rear, but if there is one, that could be an option, no?
Looks like the Ford Racing P-springs will only lower the rear 1" ... why wouldn't they work?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/p-springs-2011-gt.html
Last edited by Gabe; Oct 15, 2011 at 08:03 PM.
Legacy Tms Member
Joined: January 9, 2005
Posts: 2,037
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) and riding on northern roads.The compromise that has to be made to allow all that load to be handled is normally higher ride height. Look at our F350 Dually tow vehicle, and when we drop the 5th wheel onto the ball, the truck drops ~4-5", and that is just about what it needs to level it out nice. But if it started at that height ala lowered (de-arched) springs, the end result would be it dragging it's butt around when loaded, which would be dangerous.
Hope that helps.
Thread Starter
V6 Member
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: So-Cal
I like the "after" look, with the rear lowered.
I've always thought that the Mustang sits WAY too high in the rear in stock form, not sure why Ford feels the need to do so.
But I have to wonder, couldn't one just buy their choice of lowering springs out there and only install the rear springs?
I haven't looked into the options available, and I'm not sure if there are any that will only lower the car "less than an inch" in the rear, but if there is one, that could be an option, no?
Looks like the Ford Racing P-springs will only lower the rear 1" ... why wouldn't they work?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/p-springs-2011-gt.html
I've always thought that the Mustang sits WAY too high in the rear in stock form, not sure why Ford feels the need to do so.
But I have to wonder, couldn't one just buy their choice of lowering springs out there and only install the rear springs?
I haven't looked into the options available, and I'm not sure if there are any that will only lower the car "less than an inch" in the rear, but if there is one, that could be an option, no?
Looks like the Ford Racing P-springs will only lower the rear 1" ... why wouldn't they work?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/p-springs-2011-gt.html
Excellent Question! It's always going to be the choice of the Mustang Owner to do what they feel is right.
However since you asked I will try to answer this the best way I can.
In most cases, springs on a car are designed to work together front and back. The engineers usually design them to shift weight to each corner of the car for various conditions. Going into corners, coming out of corners, going over bumps, accelerating, decelerating, etc.
Also an important part of this weight transfer is the valving of the struts and shocks to the spring rates. So the factory tries to make a suspension work in unison as a complete system, not as individual components.
The 55D Spring Kit has the same spring rate as the "stock" rear Brembo spring, so the the suspension system stays intact, thus working in unison.
The Ford "P" springs could work, but the rate is higher and does not match the Brembo "stock" front springs. So if your going to use the "P" ultimately you would want the matching front spring which also has a higher rate and is lower than the "stock" front Brembo spring.
So what do you need to do to help dampen this higher rates with less spring travel height in both the front and rear?
New struts & shocks which at this time also requires new front strut mounts (until the aftermarket has the correct 2011 factory mounts for these shocks)
As they say, one thing leads to another, as well as costing more money.
When you consider all the variables, the 55D Spring Kit is a simple and inexpensive solution. Plus it also has another 1/2" suspension travel over the "P"s.
Last edited by Bucephalus; Oct 15, 2011 at 08:29 PM.
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You're on a roll tonight.
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so you consider "hogwash" to be feedback? Are you one of those people who think that being rude is ok? the proper response for "hogwash" is thank you? Some how after reading bunches of your post...i hardly think you would say thank you to someone's response to your post being "hogwash".
Additionally, the OP never used the word "extreme" but someone's "feedback" claims he did. if your gonna give "feedback" don't exaggerate what someone states and don't be rude about it
Additionally, the OP never used the word "extreme" but someone's "feedback" claims he did. if your gonna give "feedback" don't exaggerate what someone states and don't be rude about it
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Joined: March 5, 2011
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I don't know your name, so I'll call you Bruce. I appreciate the observations, thoughts, and networking you did concerning the subject. My thoughts go very much like yours when thinking about the same things you did. I did a build on my car that I aimed at trying to better what the Brembo did as a step up from the standard GT, while retaining as much as I could from what the factory designed into it and keeping a very OEM look and feel to the overall package. On the street it feels fantastic. What it would do for a couple hard laps on a road course is still unknown, but would like to find out some day with a good shoe behind the wheel. If my pics attached, there are allot of changes on the car that aren't seen that I'd have to list, but 1 note is that the rear wheels are 10" wide with 285 series Pirelli's mounted. Anyways, good job. Did you happen to determine what the spring rates are for the Brembo cars in your talks with engineers at Ford I presume? Thanks - Russ
When I bought my 2011 Brembo Brake Package Mustang, I knew that it also included a totally different suspension system, than the standard GT.
The Ford Engineers designed the Brembo Suspension to work at its maximum while retaining everyday drivability.
To bring it to this level over the standard GT, Higher springs rates were used, struts and shocks were revalved and the electric power-assisted steering, (EPAS) was custom tuned to work within the parameters of the suspension, thus creating a “perfect” suspension package.
To illustrate this point, look no further than the testing done by Motor Trend magazine (Oct 2010) that took a "stock" Brembo Mustang to the "track" and achieved an average .96g in lateral acceleration and a Maximum number of 1.3g on the race course. That's "supercar" performance.
However, the one thing that disturbed me and many others was the fact that the wheel well gap between the fender and the tire was 3/4” higher in the rear than in the front. Creating an abnormal "bug like” stance.
While there are many Lowering Spring Kits currently available that can get rid of the “ugly gap” or “stance”, none of them are the "true" solution and here are the reasons why.
Slamming the car down may look cool, but it has many side effects that will hurt the Mustang's performance characteristics. Lowering the Mustang more than 1" will change the suspension geometry, which will require other components to correct it. Control Arm angles change, and its arc motion become limited vertically. Camber/Caster angles go beyond what factory specifications and parts can handle. Super high spring rates will add to your traction loss off the line and may lead to snap oversteer in the corners, not to mention that the ride quality of the car will go to hell.
If you don't believe this, then look no further than Ford's very own 2012 Boss 302 Program. These cars are designed as a true dual purpose “track/street car”, and yet they do not even use Ford Racing's current offering of the 5300-K or P Lowering Kits, made by Eibach.
Instead, the Boss 302 uses the same "spring heights" as the current production Brembo Mustang with slightly higher working spring rates that never exceed 200lbs.
Some will argue, that they have all the “trick suspension” from what the aftermarket sells and that their suspension will perform “better than stock”.
While this may be true for an all out “road race mustang” or if you do a lot of “autocross” events, it’s not true for the majority of Mustang Owners.
The aftermarket Industry has done a fantastic marketing job, convincing 98% of Mustang Owners, that they NEED to have these parts in order to have "high performance".
But lost in all this hype is the simple fact that the majority of Mustangs never see “racing conditions”. With that said, why would these Mustang Owners want to compromise their finely tuned factory suspension system, sacrifice their ride quality and of course, lighten their wallets with the continuous need for other suspension components that are not practical for most Mustang Owners who do everyday driving.
After a year of researching spring rates, blueprints, talking to engineers, racers, and mustang owners, I finally had a set of goals to aim for.
I wanted to retain the factory ride quality, I wanted the suspension to perform the same or better and most importantly I had to have the correct and equal stance that the factory didn’t give the Mustang.
Working with a major U.S. spring manufacturer, we utilized several computer programs to design and test my new spring. Finally, real world testing of prototype springs were put on vehicles to test in real word driving conditions on the mean streets and highways of Southern California.
All the work culminated, into the 55D Spring Kit specifically designed for the 2011-2012 Brembo Package Mustangs. This kit has many advantages.
First, it lowers the rear end of the car by 1/2” and gives the Mustang a much lower and equal stance with a very slight rake.
Second, The Lowered Spring height also equalizes the “center of gravity” front to rear for improved handling, thus allowing the car to feel "flatter" going into corners and provides confidence to the driver at the wheel.
Third, the Brembo Suspension System has not been compromised due to the fact that the OEM Spring Rates are still retained and continue to be tuned to the OEM struts and shocks.
Finally, because the 55D Spring Kit only consists of rear springs, there is no need to have the front end re-aligned. There is no need to buy expensive adjustable struts and shocks to soften the rebound. There is no need to buy new strut mounts. There is no need to purchase aftermarket camber/caster plates. There is also no need to buy an adjustable panhard bar, because the rear end doesn’t shift due to the fact that the car hasn’t been lowered beyond 7/8” of an inch.
So there you have it, the 55D Spring Kit, gives your Brembo Mustang,
The Ride, the Look and the Performance, without the headaches.
The Ford Engineers designed the Brembo Suspension to work at its maximum while retaining everyday drivability.
To bring it to this level over the standard GT, Higher springs rates were used, struts and shocks were revalved and the electric power-assisted steering, (EPAS) was custom tuned to work within the parameters of the suspension, thus creating a “perfect” suspension package.
To illustrate this point, look no further than the testing done by Motor Trend magazine (Oct 2010) that took a "stock" Brembo Mustang to the "track" and achieved an average .96g in lateral acceleration and a Maximum number of 1.3g on the race course. That's "supercar" performance.
However, the one thing that disturbed me and many others was the fact that the wheel well gap between the fender and the tire was 3/4” higher in the rear than in the front. Creating an abnormal "bug like” stance.
While there are many Lowering Spring Kits currently available that can get rid of the “ugly gap” or “stance”, none of them are the "true" solution and here are the reasons why.
Slamming the car down may look cool, but it has many side effects that will hurt the Mustang's performance characteristics. Lowering the Mustang more than 1" will change the suspension geometry, which will require other components to correct it. Control Arm angles change, and its arc motion become limited vertically. Camber/Caster angles go beyond what factory specifications and parts can handle. Super high spring rates will add to your traction loss off the line and may lead to snap oversteer in the corners, not to mention that the ride quality of the car will go to hell.
If you don't believe this, then look no further than Ford's very own 2012 Boss 302 Program. These cars are designed as a true dual purpose “track/street car”, and yet they do not even use Ford Racing's current offering of the 5300-K or P Lowering Kits, made by Eibach.
Instead, the Boss 302 uses the same "spring heights" as the current production Brembo Mustang with slightly higher working spring rates that never exceed 200lbs.
Some will argue, that they have all the “trick suspension” from what the aftermarket sells and that their suspension will perform “better than stock”.
While this may be true for an all out “road race mustang” or if you do a lot of “autocross” events, it’s not true for the majority of Mustang Owners.
The aftermarket Industry has done a fantastic marketing job, convincing 98% of Mustang Owners, that they NEED to have these parts in order to have "high performance".
But lost in all this hype is the simple fact that the majority of Mustangs never see “racing conditions”. With that said, why would these Mustang Owners want to compromise their finely tuned factory suspension system, sacrifice their ride quality and of course, lighten their wallets with the continuous need for other suspension components that are not practical for most Mustang Owners who do everyday driving.
After a year of researching spring rates, blueprints, talking to engineers, racers, and mustang owners, I finally had a set of goals to aim for.
I wanted to retain the factory ride quality, I wanted the suspension to perform the same or better and most importantly I had to have the correct and equal stance that the factory didn’t give the Mustang.
Working with a major U.S. spring manufacturer, we utilized several computer programs to design and test my new spring. Finally, real world testing of prototype springs were put on vehicles to test in real word driving conditions on the mean streets and highways of Southern California.
All the work culminated, into the 55D Spring Kit specifically designed for the 2011-2012 Brembo Package Mustangs. This kit has many advantages.
First, it lowers the rear end of the car by 1/2” and gives the Mustang a much lower and equal stance with a very slight rake.
Second, The Lowered Spring height also equalizes the “center of gravity” front to rear for improved handling, thus allowing the car to feel "flatter" going into corners and provides confidence to the driver at the wheel.
Third, the Brembo Suspension System has not been compromised due to the fact that the OEM Spring Rates are still retained and continue to be tuned to the OEM struts and shocks.
Finally, because the 55D Spring Kit only consists of rear springs, there is no need to have the front end re-aligned. There is no need to buy expensive adjustable struts and shocks to soften the rebound. There is no need to buy new strut mounts. There is no need to purchase aftermarket camber/caster plates. There is also no need to buy an adjustable panhard bar, because the rear end doesn’t shift due to the fact that the car hasn’t been lowered beyond 7/8” of an inch.
So there you have it, the 55D Spring Kit, gives your Brembo Mustang,
The Ride, the Look and the Performance, without the headaches.
Last edited by ExVP; Oct 16, 2011 at 06:27 AM. Reason: add photo...
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 8, 2009
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 4
From: Lithia, FL
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 8, 2009
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 4
From: Lithia, FL
I don't know your name, so I'll call you Bruce. I appreciate the observations, thoughts, and networking you did concerning the subject. My thoughts go very much like yours when thinking about the same things you did. I did a build on my car that I aimed at trying to better what the Brembo did as a step up from the standard GT, while retaining as much as I could from what the factory designed into it and keeping a very OEM look and feel to the overall package. On the street it feels fantastic. What it would do for a couple hard laps on a road course is still unknown, but would like to find out some day with a good shoe behind the wheel. If my pics attached, there are allot of changes on the car that aren't seen that I'd have to list, but 1 note is that the rear wheels are 10" wide with 285 series Pirelli's mounted. Anyways, good job. Did you happen to determine what the spring rates are for the Brembo cars in your talks with engineers at Ford I presume? Thanks - Russ
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: April 29, 2005
Posts: 2,133
Likes: 5
The thread title clearly states that this is a spring kit for Brembo Brake Package owners. So non BBP owners come on here and get all butt hurt that the OP is talking about the BBP cars. You didn't get the BBP because you didn't like it or think it was worth it, whatever. Fine, get over it and move on.
These springs are a low cost option for someone who just wants to lower the rear without having to change a bunch of other parts and spend a bunch of money. And they want to keep the stock driving behavior and feel. Sounds like a great deal to me.
These springs are a low cost option for someone who just wants to lower the rear without having to change a bunch of other parts and spend a bunch of money. And they want to keep the stock driving behavior and feel. Sounds like a great deal to me.
Cobra Member
Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 1,267
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From: Skopje, Macedonia
The thread title clearly states that this is a spring kit for Brembo Brake Package owners. So non BBP owners come on here and get all butt hurt that the OP is talking about the BBP cars. You didn't get the BBP because you didn't like it or think it was worth it, whatever. Fine, get over it and move on.
These springs are a low cost option for someone who just wants to lower the rear without having to change a bunch of other parts and spend a bunch of money. And they want to keep the stock driving behavior and feel. Sounds like a great deal to me.
These springs are a low cost option for someone who just wants to lower the rear without having to change a bunch of other parts and spend a bunch of money. And they want to keep the stock driving behavior and feel. Sounds like a great deal to me.
Sounds good to me. Now I need someone to tell me where I can buy these springs keeping in mind that cheap is good and free is better. All this talk doesn't mean much until someone installs a set and run it thru it's paces, and writes a review.
Thread Starter
V6 Member
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: So-Cal
Springs Rates were tested and verified from Ford on Spring Manufacturers Machines.
STOCK "OEM" BREMBO MUSTANG SPRING RATES
Front Springs: 131 lbs
Rear Springs: 167 lbs
Last edited by Bucephalus; Oct 16, 2011 at 09:53 AM.
Thread Starter
V6 Member
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: So-Cal
You can get the springs on Brembo50.com but you need to be a BREMBO MUSTANG OWNER who has registered as a MEMBER (it's FREE) to unlock the store section that is not seen by the general public.
If any problems please let me know.