Manufacturer to NASCAR: Get with the Times
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Manufacturer to NASCAR: Get with the Times
While this column includes a bit of Peter's self-aggrandizement, it nonetheless is most likely an accurate depiction of goings-on between NASCAR and the manufacturer. Fuel injection, alternative fuels, no more CoT? Yes please.
http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/.../25/fumes.html
http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/.../25/fumes.html
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I still think it cheaper to run NASCAR than, let's say, Formula 1.
And I don't think Formula 1 teams are getting anything in return either. It used to be "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday", now it's just for bragging rights.
And I don't think Formula 1 teams are getting anything in return either. It used to be "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday", now it's just for bragging rights.
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True, but after a rough period F1's on a modest upswing. They still have a large number of loyal fans, and they actually have teams competing for spots on the grid again. Technology like Launch Control and advanced engine management have moved over to the consumer side. NASCAR's fanbase is shrinking, they're having a hard time filling the grid with real teams (recall Morgan Shepherd's 1-man pit crew a couple years ago), and the only NASCAR technology moving to consumers comes in the form of body panels taken off wrecked cars to be sold on eBay,
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True, but F1 is a global sport and NASCAR is not.
F1 has the best technology out there, but it's still very boring, I see more passing for the lead in one NASCAR race than in the entire F1 season.
F1 has the best technology out there, but it's still very boring, I see more passing for the lead in one NASCAR race than in the entire F1 season.
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I love anything that takes Nascar's strangle hold on the rules away and breaks their fingers! Bring back STOCK car racing! Make win on Sunday sell on Monday MEAN something again! Let EVERYONE in! No more Chevy showcase every Sunday! As long as it's a V8 Factory production car of no less than say, 5,000 units! No bigger than 5 liters, and Has to be completely stock as a car that could be bought on ANY showroom floor for 50,000 bucks or less! NO restricter plates! All that is allowed is the addition of all the nessesary safety hardware! Let's run them wide-open and see who scatters their engine first! Increase all races to 700 miles! If the car is a well balanced package, what's an extra couple hundred miles? After all, It's a STOCK car! Let it be confortable! I'm tired of Nascar's "boxing gloves" ! Let them all fight it out "bare-fisted" and see who the last man standing is! If it is the same guy every week, then it's up to those who compete to "build in" the needed changes to win and the changes be part of ALL cars of that model bought on a showroom floor as STANDARD equipment from that day forward ! If they are torn down and found to have more than 5 liters, BAN every car of that make for 1 season! If you win , It's an automatic, mandatory teardown every race! The car goes straight to teardown- not to winners lane! No back-up cars! The car must be DRIVEN to the track! No trailored cars allowed!
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I think there's a happy medium to be found. You can have close racing without relying on a uniform (and ugly) body, you can make the race cars more relevant to consumers/manufacturers without having to make them showroom stock, you can have modern technology without bankrupting the teams, etc. It just takes a bit of effort to get the formula right.
#9
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I love anything that takes Nascar's strangle hold on the rules away and breaks their fingers! Bring back STOCK car racing! Make win on Sunday sell on Monday MEAN something again! Let EVERYONE in! No more Chevy showcase every Sunday! As long as it's a V8 Factory production car of no less than say, 5,000 units! No bigger than 5 liters, and Has to be completely stock as a car that could be bought on ANY showroom floor for 50,000 bucks or less! NO restricter plates! All that is allowed is the addition of all the nessesary safety hardware! Let's run them wide-open and see who scatters their engine first! Increase all races to 700 miles! If the car is a well balanced package, what's an extra couple hundred miles? After all, It's a STOCK car! Let it be confortable! I'm tired of Nascar's "boxing gloves" ! Let them all fight it out "bare-fisted" and see who the last man standing is! If it is the same guy every week, then it's up to those who compete to "build in" the needed changes to win and the changes be part of ALL cars of that model bought on a showroom floor as STANDARD equipment from that day forward ! If they are torn down and found to have more than 5 liters, BAN every car of that make for 1 season! If you win , It's an automatic, mandatory teardown every race! The car goes straight to teardown- not to winners lane! No back-up cars! The car must be DRIVEN to the track! No trailored cars allowed!
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Do GM or Chrysler currently have a 5.0 liter V8 in a production car anywhere in their lineup? Safe to say the days of street/race cars that people could buy off the showroom and then race in a pro series were over a long time ago.
#11
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I love anything that takes Nascar's strangle hold on the rules away and breaks their fingers! Bring back STOCK car racing! Make win on Sunday sell on Monday MEAN something again! Let EVERYONE in! No more Chevy showcase every Sunday! As long as it's a V8 Factory production car of no less than say, 5,000 units! No bigger than 5 liters, and Has to be completely stock as a car that could be bought on ANY showroom floor for 50,000 bucks or less! NO restricter plates! All that is allowed is the addition of all the nessesary safety hardware! Let's run them wide-open and see who scatters their engine first! Increase all races to 700 miles! If the car is a well balanced package, what's an extra couple hundred miles? After all, It's a STOCK car! Let it be confortable! I'm tired of Nascar's "boxing gloves" ! Let them all fight it out "bare-fisted" and see who the last man standing is! If it is the same guy every week, then it's up to those who compete to "build in" the needed changes to win and the changes be part of ALL cars of that model bought on a showroom floor as STANDARD equipment from that day forward ! If they are torn down and found to have more than 5 liters, BAN every car of that make for 1 season! If you win , It's an automatic, mandatory teardown every race! The car goes straight to teardown- not to winners lane! No back-up cars! The car must be DRIVEN to the track! No trailored cars allowed!
#12
From AutoExtremist.com . .
http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/
Contents of the following and AutoExtremist website are ©2010 Autoextremist.com, Inc.
Setting the table for a new, more relevant NASCAR.
By Peter M. De Lorenzo
Part III (Parts 1 & 2 available at autoextremist.com)
http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/
Contents of the following and AutoExtremist website are ©2010 Autoextremist.com, Inc.
Setting the table for a new, more relevant NASCAR.
By Peter M. De Lorenzo
Part III (Parts 1 & 2 available at autoextremist.com)
The harsh reality.
It's no secret that this nation's near economic collapse and the following lengthy, deep recession, compounded by the added chaos of two of the Detroit Three going bankrupt - not to mention the fact that the visibly empty grandstands and declining TV rating numbers across the board at NASCAR races, and the ongoing difficulty of some teams to stay solvent - has weighed heavily on the powers that be at NASCAR headquarters in Daytona Beach. And after much hand-wringing and soul-searching, the situation has finally jarred Brian France and his team of key NASCAR leaders into facing a new and harsh reality. And that reality suggests - as outlined by newly-concerned and energized manufacturers - that they must fundamentally change what they're doing if they expect to survive as the major force in American racing.
In my previous columns I noted that two of the three domestic auto manufacturers have had new leadership teams come into place. And these leaders in question - in addition to their other duties - have a direct say as to not only what the scope of their companies' involvement in NASCAR will be, but more important, how much of their racing budgets will be directly allocated to their NASCAR racing programs. I also noted that with this transition in power has come a new emphasis on the word "relevance," as in just how willing will NASCAR be to alter its formula to accommodate the wishes of these manufacturers in terms of utilizing more advanced technologies, alternative fuels, and most important, establishing a direct visual connection between the cars sold in their showrooms and the cars that appear in NASCAR races, particularly in Sprint Cup.
Well, it appears that we will have our answers shortly.
The end of the "Car of Tomorrow" as we know it.
Over the course of the last decade, NASCAR's quest to field a starting grid of equally-spec'd cars has culminated with the disastrous adventure into the cookie-cutter shape of the "Car of Tomorrow." The "CoT" accomplished two important things for NASCAR: 1. It established a new level of safety as a direct result of the tragic accident that claimed NASCAR icon Dale Earnhardt's life. 2. It removed almost every last vestige of manufacturer involvement in establishing distinctive car shapes - and bending the rules - by making all of the car bodies nearly identical, with only decals allowed to indicate headlights, taillights, etc., for the competing manufacturers. But the third thing the CoT accomplished was not, in hindsight, something NASCAR wanted to achieve at all and that was to drive a wedge between the hard-core NASCAR faithful and their traditional brand allegiances. Being "a Ford guy (or gal)" or a "Chevy guy (or gal)" or a "Dodge guy (or gal)" may not play in many places left in the U.S., but it most definitely still plays with NASCAR's loyalist fans, and in one fell swoop NASCAR took that notion away from them with the CoT. And of course that contributed two more things to NASCAR's current predicament: empty seats in the grandstands and manufacturers who were growing unhappier by the day as they realized the net effect of NASCAR's drive for "commonality" was almost a complete loss of their brand recognition.
So what will the next-gen NASCAR "stock car" look like? Take a long look at the production-based Camaro race car (below) that ran in the GT-class in the Daytona 24 Hour, add a spoiler instead of a wing, and you will have a real good idea as to what just might be coming to NASCAR by 2012. That's right, racing cars based on real stock dimension production bodies for the first time in a long, long time. Will it be an abrupt transition? No, this is NASCAR after all, but it will be much sooner than anyone expects too. And these won't be front-wheel-drive machines masquerading in rear-wheel-drive configuration, either. The production-based nature of the new NASCAR race car will demand that the race car mirrors the production car's drivetrain configuration, which means it must be available in rear-wheel-drive on the street if it's going to be eligible to run in Sprint Cup.
Photo Courtesy: Rick Dole Photography
The shape of things to come for NASCAR.
And the way this new car may be transitioned into Sprint Cup could be very interesting, too, as NASCAR considers making the new machines - Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, a car from Toyota as yet to be determined, and any new entry from other manufacturers interested - the only cars eligible for its two road racing venues (Watkins Glen & Sears Point-Infineon). Although, with NASCAR running a Nationwide race at Elkhart Lake's Road America this summer, don't be surprised if a third road race is added to the Sprint Cup schedule by 2011 at Road America - without adding to the total number of races - with that additional road race to be run during the "Chase" for the Championship.
A new era of technology.
A new, production-based car is only just the beginning of NASCAR's fundamental transformation. Because along with these new cars will begin a new era of contemporary technology, as Brian France & Co. shores up its longstanding relationship with the manufacturers by not only adopting new technology, but by embracing the use of it enthusiastically and across the board.
What does this mean? Watch for a change in NASCAR's required fuel by 2012, with a bio fuel becoming the new standard. Also look for direct-injected engines, sequential-shift gear boxes, and a host of other new technical applications.
The most important aspect of this development is that NASCAR will be working side-by-side with the interested manufacturers to make things better and more interesting for the fans, while at the same time making things better and more relevant for the manufacturers. How is this different than before? As I said, both parties - the manufacturers and NASCAR - are embarking on a new spirit of cooperation and willingness to embrace change.
Bringing NASCAR into the Future.
It doesn't matter how the parties in question arrived at this point in my estimation, the important thing is that the realization is finally there that business as usual no longer applies, and that a fundamental transformation must take place for the benefit of all concerned.
I have been NASCAR's harshest critic by far for going on 11 years now. Do I believe that everything will be all better overnight and that there won't be any problems and missteps along the way?
In a word, no.
But I am impressed and I do believe that Brian France and his chief lieutenants have finally gotten the message and have begun to see the light, and it will benefit all fans of racing if they - and the manufacturers - get it right.
It's no secret that this nation's near economic collapse and the following lengthy, deep recession, compounded by the added chaos of two of the Detroit Three going bankrupt - not to mention the fact that the visibly empty grandstands and declining TV rating numbers across the board at NASCAR races, and the ongoing difficulty of some teams to stay solvent - has weighed heavily on the powers that be at NASCAR headquarters in Daytona Beach. And after much hand-wringing and soul-searching, the situation has finally jarred Brian France and his team of key NASCAR leaders into facing a new and harsh reality. And that reality suggests - as outlined by newly-concerned and energized manufacturers - that they must fundamentally change what they're doing if they expect to survive as the major force in American racing.
In my previous columns I noted that two of the three domestic auto manufacturers have had new leadership teams come into place. And these leaders in question - in addition to their other duties - have a direct say as to not only what the scope of their companies' involvement in NASCAR will be, but more important, how much of their racing budgets will be directly allocated to their NASCAR racing programs. I also noted that with this transition in power has come a new emphasis on the word "relevance," as in just how willing will NASCAR be to alter its formula to accommodate the wishes of these manufacturers in terms of utilizing more advanced technologies, alternative fuels, and most important, establishing a direct visual connection between the cars sold in their showrooms and the cars that appear in NASCAR races, particularly in Sprint Cup.
Well, it appears that we will have our answers shortly.
The end of the "Car of Tomorrow" as we know it.
Over the course of the last decade, NASCAR's quest to field a starting grid of equally-spec'd cars has culminated with the disastrous adventure into the cookie-cutter shape of the "Car of Tomorrow." The "CoT" accomplished two important things for NASCAR: 1. It established a new level of safety as a direct result of the tragic accident that claimed NASCAR icon Dale Earnhardt's life. 2. It removed almost every last vestige of manufacturer involvement in establishing distinctive car shapes - and bending the rules - by making all of the car bodies nearly identical, with only decals allowed to indicate headlights, taillights, etc., for the competing manufacturers. But the third thing the CoT accomplished was not, in hindsight, something NASCAR wanted to achieve at all and that was to drive a wedge between the hard-core NASCAR faithful and their traditional brand allegiances. Being "a Ford guy (or gal)" or a "Chevy guy (or gal)" or a "Dodge guy (or gal)" may not play in many places left in the U.S., but it most definitely still plays with NASCAR's loyalist fans, and in one fell swoop NASCAR took that notion away from them with the CoT. And of course that contributed two more things to NASCAR's current predicament: empty seats in the grandstands and manufacturers who were growing unhappier by the day as they realized the net effect of NASCAR's drive for "commonality" was almost a complete loss of their brand recognition.
So what will the next-gen NASCAR "stock car" look like? Take a long look at the production-based Camaro race car (below) that ran in the GT-class in the Daytona 24 Hour, add a spoiler instead of a wing, and you will have a real good idea as to what just might be coming to NASCAR by 2012. That's right, racing cars based on real stock dimension production bodies for the first time in a long, long time. Will it be an abrupt transition? No, this is NASCAR after all, but it will be much sooner than anyone expects too. And these won't be front-wheel-drive machines masquerading in rear-wheel-drive configuration, either. The production-based nature of the new NASCAR race car will demand that the race car mirrors the production car's drivetrain configuration, which means it must be available in rear-wheel-drive on the street if it's going to be eligible to run in Sprint Cup.
Photo Courtesy: Rick Dole Photography
The shape of things to come for NASCAR.
And the way this new car may be transitioned into Sprint Cup could be very interesting, too, as NASCAR considers making the new machines - Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, a car from Toyota as yet to be determined, and any new entry from other manufacturers interested - the only cars eligible for its two road racing venues (Watkins Glen & Sears Point-Infineon). Although, with NASCAR running a Nationwide race at Elkhart Lake's Road America this summer, don't be surprised if a third road race is added to the Sprint Cup schedule by 2011 at Road America - without adding to the total number of races - with that additional road race to be run during the "Chase" for the Championship.
A new era of technology.
A new, production-based car is only just the beginning of NASCAR's fundamental transformation. Because along with these new cars will begin a new era of contemporary technology, as Brian France & Co. shores up its longstanding relationship with the manufacturers by not only adopting new technology, but by embracing the use of it enthusiastically and across the board.
What does this mean? Watch for a change in NASCAR's required fuel by 2012, with a bio fuel becoming the new standard. Also look for direct-injected engines, sequential-shift gear boxes, and a host of other new technical applications.
The most important aspect of this development is that NASCAR will be working side-by-side with the interested manufacturers to make things better and more interesting for the fans, while at the same time making things better and more relevant for the manufacturers. How is this different than before? As I said, both parties - the manufacturers and NASCAR - are embarking on a new spirit of cooperation and willingness to embrace change.
Bringing NASCAR into the Future.
It doesn't matter how the parties in question arrived at this point in my estimation, the important thing is that the realization is finally there that business as usual no longer applies, and that a fundamental transformation must take place for the benefit of all concerned.
I have been NASCAR's harshest critic by far for going on 11 years now. Do I believe that everything will be all better overnight and that there won't be any problems and missteps along the way?
In a word, no.
But I am impressed and I do believe that Brian France and his chief lieutenants have finally gotten the message and have begun to see the light, and it will benefit all fans of racing if they - and the manufacturers - get it right.
#13
Legacy TMS Member
Using the F1 example is pretty flawed.
F1 for years has been the 'who comes out in the lead after 2 laps? Winner, and the parade is set for the race.' Boring. No passing to speak of, it's all about longevity of the car and pit stop efficiency... and for that, they reset the car in 8 seconds, with 200 people surrounding it. Yeah. Competition is performed at the shop, not the track. Each team has a lot of technology to play with and get their cars to be uber... and some more than others.
Whereas the similarities of NASCAR and it's archaic car formula, coupled with many aerodynamic concessions or penalties, means a more competitive race every race, by and large. Anyone can quite literally win.
The downside, of course, is the 'big one' that inevitably happens to each superspeedway and restrictor cup race near the end... but it's almost become acceptable.
THAT being said... you might as well say the car companies should insist upon them using actual cars straight out of the showroom like they did in the old days. If you really want to leverage technology, that is. But that's why the use other races:
Nascar=Suspension, cooling.
Indycar=Engine Technology for efficiency and power, suspensions
F1=stupid tech run amok, but that tech does trickle down.
Sayin' all THAT.... I've not watched a race in quite the while. Other stuff to do.
F1 for years has been the 'who comes out in the lead after 2 laps? Winner, and the parade is set for the race.' Boring. No passing to speak of, it's all about longevity of the car and pit stop efficiency... and for that, they reset the car in 8 seconds, with 200 people surrounding it. Yeah. Competition is performed at the shop, not the track. Each team has a lot of technology to play with and get their cars to be uber... and some more than others.
Whereas the similarities of NASCAR and it's archaic car formula, coupled with many aerodynamic concessions or penalties, means a more competitive race every race, by and large. Anyone can quite literally win.
The downside, of course, is the 'big one' that inevitably happens to each superspeedway and restrictor cup race near the end... but it's almost become acceptable.
THAT being said... you might as well say the car companies should insist upon them using actual cars straight out of the showroom like they did in the old days. If you really want to leverage technology, that is. But that's why the use other races:
Nascar=Suspension, cooling.
Indycar=Engine Technology for efficiency and power, suspensions
F1=stupid tech run amok, but that tech does trickle down.
Sayin' all THAT.... I've not watched a race in quite the while. Other stuff to do.
#14
I will buy Jack Stands!!!
Since the COT came out, I've only watched about 11 laps per race. The first, and the last 5. Everything is just them being conservative and not making moves.
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Houtex, in referencing F1 I specifically made no mention of the actual racing. Yes, it's pretty boring to my eyes as well, but fact remains it's a multi-billion dollar international sport with a huge, worldwide fanbase. NASCAR's North American-only fanbase is shrinking, as is advertising income and ticket sales. Most of the same drivers are there, the tracks are better than they used to be, and the TV coverage is (mostly) great. That means fault lies in the rules, in the current formula. Fans and manufacturers alike despise the COT, they don't find them attractive or relevant.
At any rate, the literally anyone can win line is crap. The races are dominated by the big teams, and the Championship even more so. Alan Kulwicki won a Championship essentially coming out of left field, now JJ has won how many in a row?
If someone found the racing interesting and exciting, they would make the time once a week (or once in awhile) to watch. You don't, so you don't. Many are in the same boat.
At any rate, the literally anyone can win line is crap. The races are dominated by the big teams, and the Championship even more so. Alan Kulwicki won a Championship essentially coming out of left field, now JJ has won how many in a row?
If someone found the racing interesting and exciting, they would make the time once a week (or once in awhile) to watch. You don't, so you don't. Many are in the same boat.
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I don't know what's the big deal with COT, I don't find it any more boring that cars with stickers only from the 1990s and early 2000s.
I would prefer 1980s cars - custom, safe, fast, but still look like production cars.
I would prefer 1980s cars - custom, safe, fast, but still look like production cars.
#17
I will buy Jack Stands!!!
The COT's main difference is that now all the cars are absolutely the same, and the competition has been filtered out. From the original thoughts of the drivers in the beginning too, they weren't too great. I quote this from memory from watching one of the first 12 races in '07 or whichever year they were starting to phase in the CoT: "It's weird, man. In the old cars, us drivers run out of guts to take them farther, but these new ones have lower limits than us"
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It gonna take time to make them ok, I don't see many drivers complaining about COTs anymore.
But then again, the biggest complainers were cry babies who complain at all times (Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch ...).
But then again, the biggest complainers were cry babies who complain at all times (Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch ...).
#19
I will buy Jack Stands!!!
They may be the most vocal about hating the cars, but let's face it, they are also some of the best at doing it, I think they're criticism has a firm footing