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Ford should pull out of Nascar!

Old 5/19/13, 09:22 AM
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Ford should pull out of Nascar!

After watching what ive seen this season I think Ford should pull out. Ford is always riding behind the Chevy's & Toyota's except for 1 race which was a total fluke that they finished 1,2 and 3.

Nascar is bought and paid for by Hendrix and it totally showed itself last night and Ford will never be a serious player in Nascar again and I pity the drivers for Penske and Roush....
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Old 5/19/13, 11:28 AM
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The manufacturers were able to force NASCAR to move beyond the CoT only by banding together to demand it happen, pulling out unilaterally won't accomplish anything. The Frances won't change, they'll simply invite Honda or VW in to take Ford's place. Ford will take a big brand perception hit in the South East, and other relationships would be damaged. The relationship with Roush would be severely hurt by a pullout, and Jack's too good of a friend to let get away.
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Old 5/19/13, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Moosetang View Post
The manufacturers were able to force NASCAR to move beyond the CoT only by banding together to demand it happen, pulling out unilaterally won't accomplish anything. The Frances won't change, they'll simply invite Honda or VW in to take Ford's place. Ford will take a big brand perception hit in the South East, and other relationships would be damaged. The relationship with Roush would be severely hurt by a pullout, and Jack's too good of a friend to let get away.
You obviously know alot more than I do about it but as a casual observer I have watched nascar for years, I go back to when I was a kid and my dad always was Ford and a David Pearson fan. Ford has no teams with any kind of strength anymore and they (Ford) basically plays follow the leader (Chevy) year after year and it gets rather depressing watching it.

Yates teams used to be very good and so did Elliot but Roush's teams are weak IMO. I heard that Nascar has several ex Hendrix team members on the crew who works for Nascar so basically what they did early this year was neutralize Keslowski so where he has no shot at a championship and now Johnson is up 60+ points on Edwards who never in hell catch up so I dont understand why Ford let's this happen over and over or is it because they can do nothing about it because nascar is bought and paid for by Chevy?
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Old 5/19/13, 06:36 PM
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I'm starting to lose interested in the NASCAR. I just wish they would have the same constant ruling that applies for everybody. Its simply not fair that Denny Hamlin gets fined $25,000 for saying that he doesn't like current generation of NASCAR cars; yet, Tony Stewart can start a fight and don't get fined or even on probation.

I agree; Ford should pull out of NASCAR; then I would have a reason for not following it anymore.
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Old 5/19/13, 09:54 PM
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So.. let me get this right. As of this typing, the Points standings are as follows:

1) Jimmie Johnson, Chevy
2) Carl Edwards, Ford
3) Matt Kenseth, Toyota

Other Ford Drivers in the top 10 are:
7) Keselowski
9) Almirola

So 3 out of the top 10 are Fords, and second in points is a Ford. Sounds to me like there's nothing wrong with Ford's cars. If they were all in the 15th and worse range, sure, but not the case.

Now, if you go by how many cars:
Ford 13 full full time rides, 4 part
Chevy 18 full 0 part
Toyota 11 full 2 part

That's 16 vs 18 vs 13 cars that can run this year. What needs to be asked is why Toyota has more than their fair share of top 10 drivers... unless you go by full time only, where it's it's 13, 18, 11, so it makes a little more sense that way.

Ford ranks: 2,7,9 30% of the top 10.
Chevy ranks: 1,4,6,10. 40%
Toyota ranks: 3,5,8. 30%

And so it looks about where it oughtta be, ya ask me. Johnson is that good, and so is his team. You don't win 5 consecutive championships without being really freakin' good as a team and driver.

Sources:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/cup/standings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NASCAR_teams
as of 5-19-2013

Last edited by houtex; 5/19/13 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 5/20/13, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by houtex View Post
So.. let me get this right. As of this typing, the Points standings are as follows:

1) Jimmie Johnson, Chevy
2) Carl Edwards, Ford
3) Matt Kenseth, Toyota

Other Ford Drivers in the top 10 are:
7) Keselowski
9) Almirola

So 3 out of the top 10 are Fords, and second in points is a Ford. Sounds to me like there's nothing wrong with Ford's cars. If they were all in the 15th and worse range, sure, but not the case.

Now, if you go by how many cars:
Ford 13 full full time rides, 4 part
Chevy 18 full 0 part
Toyota 11 full 2 part

That's 16 vs 18 vs 13 cars that can run this year. What needs to be asked is why Toyota has more than their fair share of top 10 drivers... unless you go by full time only, where it's it's 13, 18, 11, so it makes a little more sense that way.

Ford ranks: 2,7,9 30% of the top 10.
Chevy ranks: 1,4,6,10. 40%
Toyota ranks: 3,5,8. 30%

And so it looks about where it oughtta be, ya ask me. Johnson is that good, and so is his team. You don't win 5 consecutive championships without being really freakin' good as a team and driver.

Sources:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/cup/standings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NASCAR_teams

as of 5-19-2013
Carl Edwards will never ever catch Jimmie Johnson, he just doesnt have it in him. Hendrix as I said earlier neutralized Keslowski by claiming he was running illegal parts, his car was inspected and no illegal parts yet he was fined, he lost points and his crew chief fined and suspended. I personally dont think that JJ is as good as you claim however I do beleive his crew chief Knauss knows something that everyone else doesnt and to make it worse he has been caught cheating multiple times and yet he remains in Nascrap. If the Hendrix cars were all created equal as they claim then why isnt Gordon and Khane doing any better? I personally think there is some sneaky S**T going on and Hendrix basically owns Nascrap.

Last edited by Muscle-Car-Memories; 5/20/13 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 5/20/13, 12:24 PM
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NASCAR = turn left , turn left, turn left, turn left...so why should anyone really care? I do autocross and time trials = driver fun.
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Old 5/20/13, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Music man in Pcola View Post
NASCAR = turn left , turn left, turn left, turn left...so why should anyone really care? I do autocross and time trials = driver fun.
Some people are open minded and can "like" different things.
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Old 5/20/13, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Music man in Pcola View Post
NASCAR = turn left , turn left, turn left, turn left...so why should anyone really care? I do autocross and time trials = driver fun.
I cared because I got tired watching Formula 1 and other types of racing where qualifying tells you 85% of what will happen in a race, 10% is known after the first lap and the only other lead change is when drivers go to the pits for tires and fuel. I got tired of watching one driver qualifying on the pole position, leading every lap and then winning by a wide margin.

So NASCAR was fun at one poaint because many different drivers had a chance of winning and there were a lot of lead changes.

I still follow NASCAR, Formula 1 and WRC, sometimes even WTCC, but its not as fun as it used to be ...

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Old 5/20/13, 12:54 PM
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Driver point totals does not indicate how competitive a manufacturer is in a racing series. The manufacturer points is a little bit better indicator of how well a manufacturer is performing. However, I think the best performance indicator is the number of laps lead. So far this year, the Ford racers have lead very few laps. NASCAR says they make the rules so every manufacture is on equal footing to have a chance to win. Yet, it appears the Ford drivers are working awful hard just to try and finish a race in the top ten. I think NASCAR does not care at all if they have Ford fans show up for a race. Maybe if NASCAR would look to see why their rules do not give Ford race cars a fair chance at winning, they would see the Ford fans return to the tracks and take up those empty seats they have vacated.
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Old 5/20/13, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 2 Go Snake View Post
NASCAR says they make the rules so every manufacture is on equal footing to have a chance to win.
+1.

Anyone rememers I think it was 2005 season, when Roush had all 5 drivers in the Chase (back then 10 drivers went to the Chase)?
NASCAR was quick to make the change that teams are allowed to have only 4 drivers, so Roush had to close one of their teams.
NASCAR also extended the number of Chase drivers from 10 to 12 because neither Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt Jr. qualified for the Chase.
However, in 2006, Chevy had 9 out of 12 Chase drivers (Ford had 2 and Dodge had 1). Greg Biffle and Carl Edwards (who finished 2nd and 3rd in 2005 season) missed the Chase. No changes were made. All of the sudden NASCAR didn't care if team were equal or who misses the Chase, as long as Gordon, Earnhardt & the rest of Chevy's popular drivers make it.
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Old 5/21/13, 10:34 AM
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Speaking of the Chase, I do not care for it. I think a chase format is just a plain silly way of determining who the champion is for the year. I would rather see all drivers going for wins and leading laps. The driver who wins most and leads the most laps on different tracks should be the champion. Instead of the chase, more points should be given to the drivers who win and lead the most laps in a race all year long. The driver who wins the most races and leads the most laps should be the champion. I do not like to see just 12 drivers eligible to win a championship.
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Old 5/21/13, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Zastava_101 View Post
+1.

Anyone rememers I think it was 2005 season, when Roush had all 5 drivers in the Chase (back then 10 drivers went to the Chase)?
NASCAR was quick to make the change that teams are allowed to have only 4 drivers, so Roush had to close one of their teams.
NASCAR also extended the number of Chase drivers from 10 to 12 because neither Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt Jr. qualified for the Chase.
However, in 2006, Chevy had 9 out of 12 Chase drivers (Ford had 2 and Dodge had 1). Greg Biffle and Carl Edwards (who finished 2nd and 3rd in 2005 season) missed the Chase. No changes were made. All of the sudden NASCAR didn't care if team were equal or who misses the Chase, as long as Gordon, Earnhardt & the rest of Chevy's popular drivers make it.
Could be by coincidence? I assume you and '2 Go Snake' are in favor of SPEC engines/chassis as to keep everything as even as possible. That way there wouldn't be as much complaining if one driver demonstrates superior driving skills . . . correct?
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Old 5/21/13, 01:20 PM
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not just ford should quit nascar .. all teams should quit and form another racing league .. simplify the rules .. car and driver must weigh 3500 lbS ... must all use same tires ... no other rules ..have at it .....
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Old 5/21/13, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Muscle-Car-Memories View Post
Carl Edwards will never ever catch Jimmie Johnson, he just doesnt have it in him. Hendrix as I said earlier neutralized Keslowski by claiming he was running illegal parts, his car was inspected and no illegal parts yet he was fined, he lost points and his crew chief fined and suspended. I personally dont think that JJ is as good as you claim however I do beleive his crew chief Knauss knows something that everyone else doesnt and to make it worse he has been caught cheating multiple times and yet he remains in Nascrap. If the Hendrix cars were all created equal as they claim then why isnt Gordon and Khane doing any better? I personally think there is some sneaky S**T going on and Hendrix basically owns Nascrap.
Whether anyone can catch JJ or not wasn't my point, really. Ford doesn't have to win. They can place and be ok with that, it's *still* going to sell the cars to the people who follow the drivers/teams/whatever.

Roush sells. No matter the driver. As an example. And the advertising dollars (read: everyone gets paid for showing up with a car that runs on race day, even the bottom feeders) work just fine. Nobody's quitting, and definitely not when the percentages of win/place/show is looking like it's working.

Thinking it's about the championship, the points, the wins... nope. It's about face time on the TV, and that's the truth. It's gravy if you win. The winning doesn't even pay for the car.
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Old 5/22/13, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by houtex View Post
Whether anyone can catch JJ or not wasn't my point, really. Ford doesn't have to win. They can place and be ok with that, it's *still* going to sell the cars to the people who follow the drivers/teams/whatever.

Roush sells. No matter the driver. As an example. And the advertising dollars (read: everyone gets paid for showing up with a car that runs on race day, even the bottom feeders) work just fine. Nobody's quitting, and definitely not when the percentages of win/place/show is looking like it's working.

Thinking it's about the championship, the points, the wins... nope. It's about face time on the TV, and that's the truth. It's gravy if you win. The winning doesn't even pay for the car.
Well I guess some people watch Nascar and dont care if Ford wins or not however I do. Ford is the most sucessful American Auto. Co. and it needs to show it and step up and spend the money to put Chevrolet in its place or maybe since Chevrolet (GM) received $52 billion from Obama then Ford just cannot keep up with that but if I had any say in how Ford operated in Nascar the Chevrolet & Toyota dominance would not be happening.
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Old 5/22/13, 08:36 PM
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FORD doesn't care if they win or not. They really really don't, except for braggin' rights for winning the manufacturer's title. Excepting that one perk, they are getting every penny they spend being returned by being fairly well represented in the standings, and their cars are shown on TV. That is a big win for them.

Dodge *wishes* they could be on the same stage, you can guarantee it. They simply got out muscled this time, instead of being legislated out of the sport like last time.

And to be perfectly honest... Chevy can keep throwing their money into NASCAR and making the crap they do, and take that title... while Ford is much more successful and builds better stuff, and is doing just fine thankyaverramuch. Still more proud of that company by far.

I'll take that trade of race/good product every day of the week and, if you'll excuse the obvious, twice on Sunday. Go Ford!
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Old 5/22/13, 10:30 PM
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I don't know if Ford Motor Company ezecs care if Ford wins or not. I do know they want to be competitive. As far as spec goes, the NASCAR racecars are as close to spec racecars as they can be without being exactly spec racecars. I would rather see Toyota and Ford run their own overhead cam engines and GM could run their own LS overhead valve engine. I would like to see all manufacturers limited to a 302 cubic inch engine and templates used from the street cars sold to the public. Weight could be added to slow down the racecar that may have too big of a speed advantage.
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Old 5/23/13, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by houtex View Post
And to be perfectly honest... Chevy can keep throwing their money into NASCAR and making the crap they do, and take that title...
Well... actually... being in NASCRAP does help GM with its V8 engine program, same with the CR6 Corvette, a lot of what makes the LSx cylinder heads so good for a 2v pushrod design came from what they learned from racing.
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Old 5/23/13, 09:09 PM
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Indeed, all racing of all forms helps all of our cars get better, as they apply the tech to the pax cars.

Longer lasting engines, better brakes, better crumple zones, better computer management, better suspensions... lots of things. Whatever they learn on the track, eventually some of it winds up on the passenger cars and trucks.

I mean, it used to be the standard that all cars were built like tanks. They'd survive. But would you? Maybe not. Now, the car is the sacrificial lamb in the hopes that it's sacrifice means you live... and even to the point of literally walking away unscathed, bodily speaking.

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